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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/30/2006 7:19:55 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		This is a very helpful thread that I am bookmarking. Thanks to OP for writing the question and for all the well thought out responses.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to nephandi)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/30/2006 2:40:38 PM   
Johm1902


Posts: 7
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		Dear teresa,
Have been reading through the whole threat and think your problem is not so much the fact you want to learn to please your master but more your history. The fact everything came back from what your father did to you gives the clue that is the main reason you had your sub drop.
Pain inflicted by a sadist is often pain given out of love and basically to enjoy both. A true masochist needs the pain to be able to function, but often there are reasons deep inside why he/she wants it. For you I think it is a bit like a therapy to really get what happened to you in your past out of your system. You have to learn that pain given by your master is not pain out of frustration, as your father did, but out of love. The fact you like to endure it for your master to satisfy him might be a very true thing. But I have the feeling you being a very potential masochist have first to understand your own emotions and understand the difference between the pain given by your father and the pain given by your master and what it means for you personally and emotionally. Just as you master has to understand you have been damaged in the past and that those wounds still needs to be healed.
Although you suffered a sub drop last time you probably felt afterwards a lot better as if some things cleared a bit. I have had a slave who suffered the same as you did in her past and it took me 5 years to help her out and be able to train her to take a lot of pain with much pleasure and without falling into a sub drop. She also wanted to be hurt and just needed the pain and had masochistic tendencies, but often suffered a sub drop due to some things which happened in her past. The only way I could help her was to be there after a session, to tell her I loved her very much, to touch her and just be there. This process sometimes took longer then the session itself, her crying for a long time. However afterwards she always felt better although she did not understand why she had to cry. She became a true masochist and understood emotionally the difference between the intense pain which was given to her and the pain she endured during her childhood. Important aspect here is not so much understanding why but more emotionally accepting the fact you love the pain and accepting the fact there are emotions which go with it you do not understand (yet). Often it is more accepting emotionally what you have been gone through.
Just my two cents without knowing you personally
John
BTW I do not pretend to have all the wisdom so I might be completely wrong, it is just what my experiences are.
 

(in reply to Littlepita)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/30/2006 3:27:21 PM   
eroticangel


Posts: 272
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline 		this is a beautiful thread...thank you all for sharing your feelings

(in reply to Johm1902)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 9:27:53 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Merc & beth,

I do understand what you are saying but instead of just deciding that we are incompatible, I want to do all that I can to remove any obstacles that may be getting in the way, such as false perceptions about pain or sadism and learn to have the proper mindset going into it, and to try as many techniques as possible to build up my tolerance gradually.  I'm so new at this I've never even experienced subspace.  He is willing to be patient with me and I am willing to learn and grow, not just endure something I am hating.  That's why I am taking a proactive approach early on.

As far as bringing in another party, that is a hard limit for him.


Sapphire,

i wanted to address your question on a couple of levels. (1) as someone who doesn't like pain, but plays with a sadist and is learning techniques to deal with the pain and (2) someone who has issues in her childhood which inhibit my ability to submit enthusiastically in areas that i wish i could submit enthusiastically.

It may be that you and your Master need to deal with the end results of what your dad put you through to get you past some of the obstacles. To try to explain that statement, for me, i have a fairly high gag reflex, a remnant of childhood sexual abuse, so oral sex and gagging from it is a big emotional issue to me and something that i have needed to break down into steps to deal with, because it is something that i want to be better at.

However forcing growth in that area would not be productive, patiently helping deal with it in steps has been and continues to be what is needed.

There are a whole bunch of breathing and relaxing techniques to help manage pain, and i know that they do work over timie as my pain tolerance has increased a great deal. But to me that is just one aspect of process, the mental helps make it possible to actually use those physical techniques. If i'm panicked (sp?) in fear, i don't remember to breathe deeply and slowly or to make myself relax.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 3:21:05 PM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		I just want to let everyone know that I haven't had internet access for the past several days and have not been able to respond to the beautiful posts that I have now just had the opportunity to read. I will do so as soon as I am able. Thank you all so much.

sp

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 7:56:34 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		Im sorry I just dont get how a person who is not masachistic could be with a sadist... it just doesnt work you cant be made into something you arent nore should you have to

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 8:01:52 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		This remains to be seen, in my mind.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to enigmabrat)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 8:33:36 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I believe that some of us outsiders are hung up on semantics.  Let us forget for the moment that we understand what a sadist is, and a masochist.  Then, we can better understand.

Let us temper the sadist to saying that he enjoys painplay, sometimes on the rougher side than medium.  That doesn't exactly qualify as 'sadist' as you are thinking.  Let us allow that the thread-bearer does not have the same pain-enjoyment level.  In other words, he is used to playing at a higher level than she is.  No more, no less.

The thread isn't about learning to become a masochist, at least not as it is today.  It's about how to get to be pain-playing at a distinctly higher level, and enjoying it, both for the Master involved as well as the thread-bearer.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Littlepita)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 8:56:53 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

Im sorry I just dont get how a person who is not masachistic could be with a sadist... it just doesnt work you cant be made into something you arent nore should you have to


I am in love with a sadist.
When we first met, I did not consider myself a masochist. Im not sure I do today. What I do know is that my relationship with pain has evolved as a direct result of engagement in D/s and S/m dynamics with my dominant partner.

I believe there is room for individuals to find meaning and worth in activities and experiences they might not be eager to try when surface value is the only thing being considered. This meaning is the motivation for taking part in something one might otherwise not be interested in doing.

Ever do something like a walk-a-thon for charity? Did you really want to walk x number of miles on a sweltering June afternoon? Half-way through it, did you discover that you were actually enjoying certain aspects of it? When you were finished, did you get that sense of satisfaction for having taken on a challenge for a good cause or even felt a physical endorphin rush from the physical exertion?

How about taking the stairs up seven flights to work instead of the elevator? How about taking the stairs up seven flights to work because Daddy said so?

I have found that I can find joy in a lot of places I hadnt expected to find it, doing things I "didnt want to do" because I found a way (and it really isnt too hard) to infuse the experience with meaning.

And once the pathways are established in a person's brain, associating a certain experience with something desirable, I believe it is possible to actually begin to enjoy the physical sensation of said experience. I believe it because I have watched it happen in my own life.

Did I have to ? No.
I do lots of things I dont have to do for the sake of my relationship with my boyfriend. That's what people do when they love one another. Otherwise it's something completely different called "obligation".

I chose to explore pain with my partner as a spiritual and personal exercise. I knew he would find it gratifying and I suspected, rightly so, that at some point I would too.


_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to enigmabrat)
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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 9:19:14 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		Why don't you find a painslut to join you both for sessions, that way you get to participate and He gets to play with a painslut.....ever think about going poly and adding a third? just remember one person can not be everything for another person, there has to be give and take.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/31/2006 9:24:34 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I'm not a Sadist in the strictest sense of the word but if I knew my sub wanted a particular type of pain and actually enjoyed it I'd have no problem with doing that.

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/1/2006 8:10:37 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

Im sorry I just dont get how a person who is not masachistic could be with a sadist... it just doesnt work you cant be made into something you arent nore should you have to


i would strongly disagree. One can not be a masochist and still do very well with a sadist. What i don't think you are understanding, is that while a person might not like the pain, per se, they are getting something out of it, pleasure of submission to name one thing.

(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/1/2006 4:43:30 PM   
Johm1902


Posts: 7
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		sapphirepleasure might not be a masochist, but think if you read her reactions, it is not about how to become a maso nor about the fact her Master is a Sadist. It is about the emotions which are triggered from deep within her to the surface. The pain and circumstances are the trigger to bring it to the surface and caused her to sub drop. Also you see the pain she was put through was not that high, she has been punished quite a lot harder and imho has tendencies to become a true masochist, although she will not accept that yet.
The only thing her Sadist should understand is that although she might accept any pain from him and really become his maso slave she will have these kind of reactions and will need him then to pick her up to heal from that what has been done to her in the past.
Too often people forget that these kind of settings, getting pain for the sake of pain only, is often a very deep emotional experience for the one who goes through it. It even does not have to be a lot of pain, but since the only reason to get it because it is pain is triggering other emotions which are often deep inside someone without knowing it them self. Also too often people forget that those who suffer from these emotional out burst needs someone to hold them and give them a save environment and feeling.. That is the only way they eventually will heal and be able to go deep for their Dominant or Sadist without suffering this sub drop. It has basically nothing to do with being a Sadist or not a true masochist with a Sadist. It are emotional experiences which often in these kind of environments will happen.
just my two cents.
 

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/1/2006 4:51:17 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

Im sorry I just dont get how a person who is not masachistic could be with a sadist... it just doesnt work you cant be made into something you arent nore should you have to


Because there are other things about the person that fulfills certain needs and desires they have.  Incompatability in one aspect of your life doesn't mean that you should trash a relationship.  If you have to be perfectly matched in all areas with your partner, then you are just setting up any relationship you have to fail.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/1/2006 4:53:45 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Very nicely said, heather. 

I think a lot of people do things for others that they wouldn't necessarily choose by themselves and find great joy and fulfillment from it.

kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/2/2006 1:24:23 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		 
It's interesting because today I was talking a spiritual psychic counselor colleague of mine and asking counsel about some relationship issues.  I had never told her about the pain play that I do with the men I am involved with but today I did.  I didn't know if she would be able to get her mind around it, but of course, being the evolved being she is, she immediately grasped how, as you say, it brings one to feeling alive, and works you to a healing place beyond those old, stale emotions where you were once stuck.

I even had a lover who introduced me to some very deep emotional roleplay that invigorated me and touched placed in me that were sometimes painful, often surprising, but always cathartic.  He told me that I could always stop him but to go with it as far as I wanted and whereever it took me.  Being a woman with a MA in film & performing arts and a natural drama queen it didn't take much convincing and I was a convert to this form of dramatherapy.

I strongly relate to what heather said about being in love with a sadist (I find that happening to me) and wanting to please him and finding myself the better for the places it takes me.  What kyra says about a certain implement (the paddle) triggering flashbacks even for someone totally okay with much more extreme play really rings true for me.  Name calling really gets to me and I melt when called baby or pet names so much more than the slutty d/s names so much in vogue and god help the man who calls me idiot like my dad did unless of course it was someone I totally trusted and I knew they were doing it to trigger those emotions out of me.

John, I can't tell you how thankful I am that you've taken time to read this thread, my friend, and post so heartfully and eloquently from your own experience.  And I am so looking forward to meeting you next month and experiencing your loving sadism firsthand.

And, as some of you know, and others may have figured out from my profile's changes, my Master decided to release me, and that he had collared me prematurely.  I am focusing on the positive aspects of this which will allow us time to adjust to each other, and me time to have other experiences that will help me face my own fears and grow all the stronger.  I know that eventually I will be owned, and perhaps it will even be by a sadist.

sapphirepleasure

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/2/2006 5:38:15 AM   
TAWWizard


Posts: 17
Joined: 3/1/2006
Status: offline 		This is a great thread! So as a card carrying sadist I guess I wanna chime in here a bit.  
For me the issue is power exchange more than anything else and while there are lots of ways to do that, theres nothing as intensely powerful as a S/m session. "Top space" is an unbelieveable feeling. For me its not sexual in nature at the time, the focus and concentration would be disrupted. People watching me have commented that I look like I'm stalking prey, and that they can almost see electric flashes coming from me. Its that obvious even to an onlooker that by the submission of the bottom I have become, for the moment, what Guy Baldwin called "larger than life". Its a feeling unreachable by any other legal means that I'm aware of (or willing to try at any rate ). So thats an attempt at an explanation of "what this Top gets out of it". Heres the other part:

Over the years I've had a bottom who had been abused as a child, sexually, physically and of course mentally, and another who had been abducted and raped as a teen. For both of them there was an element of closure of sorts involved: reliving the past "actions" in a safe and loving environment seemingly allowed them to deal with the past better, though for both it was a gradual and gentle step by step progression, overcoming even such basics as fear of the dark for one, and eventually for both progressing to fairly "high limit" pain play over the course of some years. In their own way each was a strong person who was able to overcome their fears gradually, and used the venue of BDSM to help.

YMMV of course but that did work for them as part of our D/s relationship.

nb: I have used the words Top and bottom in order to avoid the "is a bottom always a submissive" issue, since I have played with bottoms who were not in a submissive role with anyone, nor wished to be.

_____________________________

In any given situation, there is no dominant until the submissive decides that there is.
Submission is a gift. To attempt to take a gift that hasn't been offered is, at the least, unforgivably bad manners.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/2/2006 11:24:16 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Apparently I am not able to edit my earlier post to clarify a misimpression that I was under that I was still under consideration by my former master.  He has released me fully and though that is not really related to this thread I assured him that I would make certain that it is clear that I am no longer his.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/2/2006 12:17:31 PM   
trixr4kids


Posts: 18
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure



And, as some of you know, and others may have figured out from my profile's changes, my Master decided to release me, and that he had collared me prematurely.  I am focusing on the positive aspects of this which will allow us time to adjust to each other, and me time to have other experiences that will help me face my own fears and grow all the stronger.  I know that eventually I will be owned, and perhaps it will even be by a sadist.

sapphirepleasure

Oh you poor Dear!! I'm sorry for your loss you've mentioned here. I will pray that you find your right Master who can lovingly guide you as the sub you desire to be.
May you truly be blessed & fulfilled and all your dreams come true.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 8/2/2006 1:01:01 PM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Thank you, sweetheart.  I am not looking for sympathy.  I am strong and I wish to conduct myself with grace and integrity and I know that with openess and honest articulation of my desires to the Universe, in time, I will have the desires of my heart.  It's just rather bruised right at the moment, but I am strong and will not give up.

(in reply to trixr4kids)
Profile   Post #: 60
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