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RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 10:21:52 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

Fox is in a similar situation.

He suffers for me because he is my slave and that is part of his job. But he enjoys very little of the pain and would love for us to find a good masochist with a strong service streak for our family so I could have that type of SM interaction.

It is a different interaction.

What I get from hurting Fox -- I do hurt him, I never harm him -- is not what I get when I play with a masochist. I owned a masochist for 18 months and it was a very different dynamic and energy when we played.

But at least for me, I don't need to do SM as much with Fox as I did with Faith because of what they each gave/give in those moments. However I still crave the sadism in me and I know it is wisest to let it out than to try and cancel it.

Sometime I do is to work up slowly and to remind myself that this is a true suffering for my pleasure. That helps me value what he does more. I also usually try and combine some sexual stiumation and lots of positive feedback while I hurt Fox.

There are some types of pain now that he does enjoy a bit because it has been positively linked in his mind but I don't think he will ever be a masochist.

Maybe you can talk to your master about going more slowly and using more positive feedback and stimulation when he hurts you? I think you'll both enjoy things more if you work at it together.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 21

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 10:49:03 AM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

I did read the whole sadism thread from a week or two ago and learned a lot from that so maybe I am asking the wrong question. Maybe I need to understand myself more and how to tolerate it from someone I love. Put the focus on me, because obviously my issue is that I am having a hard time accepting it and it's triggering issues for me when it gets to a certain level.

I have learned to tolerate more when it's mixed with pleasure and praise, such as spankings, paddling, floggings and even some caning. It's just when it gets to a certain level I just feel so vulnerable and helpless and get very emotional, so much so that it even really upset my Master and caused him to question his own wisdom in how he handled me when honestly he was wonderful.

Hey,

As you have already noted, these things operate at a number of levels. You could easily do a thesis or dissertation teasing apart the layers and dimensions and the sometimes fluid ways they interact, etc, etc, etc.

I hope to God you don't attempt that right about now. KOM and Arpig gave you some great things to read. I mean really print-them-out-to-discuss-with-your-partner-and-share-with-a-less-experienced-friend-some-day Great. I hope everyone around here new to masochism finds those posts. Forgive me for not naming all the names but there have been other very worthwhile insights offerred here too.

It might be potato potahto but I would want to take issue with the one observation from merc and/or beth about how if your S/M "levels" don't "match" it is hopeless to imagine that training might bring you closer to having matching levels. I just have too much successful experience with just that sort of training. Where mercnbeth and I might fundamentally agree after all would be by saying that it would be terribly hard to tell just how a person is wired deep down, to stick with that metaphor, until the territory has been explored somewhat.

What I'm calling training could as well be called exploring that territory under his guidance.

We can sadly, even pathologically limit ourselves by investing too much in statements about "our true nature" in my view.

Personally I don't think people are best described as static objects but rather as dynamic processes. My girlfriend recently pointed out where a popular poster here raved about how watersports are something like a necessity for the full expression of her submission. This was a person who had gone to some lengths a year or so ago to explain that wetwork was a wicked hard limit.

Time passes. Things change. People grow (and sadly also sometimes shrink.)

Interpersonal violence already has special, powerful emotional meaning for you. In many areas of life we can master these things in ourselves, as tops and as bottoms. Think of the person raised to an ugly racist world view who has a visceral negative reaction at the very sight of someone of another race. Given certain sorts of experiences this racism can be transcended and its energy inverted. Warriors in the cause of human rights have come from such beginnings.

Take the simpler case of the herpetologist who was deathly frightened by--and said with all candor that she "hated"--snakes in her youth.

There are all sorts of fascinations, positive and negative; healthy and unhealthy I suppose. But I see people who are generally healthy and whole successfully addressing their "issue" areas in all sorts of different ways. At one end of the spectrum is building a life where the issue is unlikely to ever arise. At the other end--or one of the other ends as these things aren't simple and linear--some people harness the energy of an "issue", which once manifested itself only in negative ways, for good, whether their own or others.

But before I completely sink into a morass of analytical bullshit here I'd like to suggest a couple of things to keep in mind.

Look at the bright side. This guy isn't a big fan of the World Wrestling Federation, the NFL, or Civil War Re-enactment. Better a few seconds in contact with a cane spread out over a few minutes or a few hours than living in a house decorated in Dallas Cowboys colors and a tiny little life jammed with, well, all that shit, am I right?

I'm being a little facetious but the underlying point has to do with the fact that however little interest in football you may have brought ot the relationship you might very well "submit" to using his season tickets with him. You might well do this without ever torturing yourself with questions about "why does he feel the need to do this to me?" Avoid the paralysis of analysis.

By the way I'd like to pause to give you mad props for the progress indicated already between your OP here and your subsequent post to this thread where you begin to open the scope of your considerations from "How can he do this to me?" to "What can or should I attend to in myself that would lead to my betterment and that of this new relationship".

Unlike at least one other poster I am comfortable with the meaning I find in being sadistic to a devoted partner who isn't masochistic in proportion to my sadistic bent. Her acceptance of pain is a submission with a certain sort of simple clarity--okay that's a dodgey term and I don't want to invest too much in it because interacting with the right deeply masochistic partner is no less meaningful or fulfilling for me. I won't belabor the point but just hope you have caught a glimpse of what I'm trying to point to.

If it is completely unclear and you were to beg prettily enough I might deign to mount yet another pedantic diatribe to flesh out that thought, but this here pedantic diatribe is getting pretty fucking long in the tooth already.

Finally, and back to the notion of multiple interwoven layers, please consider this. For you to submit to his cane, given your background, has a special meaning for someone with the emotional equipment to appreciate it. Of course I happen to know this guy and I know he has this equipment. I am VERY MUCH IN FAVOR of the advice given above with regard to slowing way the hell down on both the emotional commitment and the play-intensity levels. As you two do go forward I would direct your attention to another level at which things are happening whether you have noted it as such or not.

Yes, you are suffering under his cane (hurting anyway, some people want to draw a black and white distinction between hurting and suffering and I don't find that un-useful) but moreover you are are enduring the pain associated with treading this new ground with and for him. This interacts with another whole layer in that this new ground of consensual masochism is for now anyway overlaid on your own personal old ground of parental abuse.

That is to say that in a sense the sting of the cane itself is the least of your pains right now. You are dealing, if I read you correctly, with a medley of physical, psychological and emotional pain, yearning and new love.

Not only the pain of the cane can be processed masochistically. Your struggle to come to grips--or maybe it would be better described as your struggle to let go--and its attendant pain can itself be processed masochistically if the desire and will to do so are present. If they happen not to be, that's fine too.

I mean holy shit. A (healthy) girl who can and will attempt this without just wigging out is going to be appreciated by certain sorts of Dominants.

You are lucky enough to have a partner who can see things on more than one level at a time. I am confident that he sees you enduring the pain of the cane AND the pain of processing that pain and that he is gratified by both.

Listen to the advice of those who advise patience and proceeding with a measured cadence. He knows enough about cane wielding to use cadence to maximum effect on the physical level. If you decide to go under that cane again you might let yourself appreciate the way his care in using that cadence mirrors what I assume will be his care in attending to the cadence of the growth of your relationship and his and your individual growth.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 22

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 12:14:55 PM

sapphirepleasure

Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline

Hi Tammyjo,

Yes, I do understand the distinction between hurting and harming. Oftentimes the pain I feel is very clearly associated with old events that are triggered and being purged and not the transitory pain of the current 'scene'.

Master is very good about warming me up and mixing pleasure with pain. For some reason last night though I was just feeling very open and vulnerable and when the pain got so intense physically (or afterwards, actually), I had all of these false thoughts and emotions come flooding up that we had to sort through.

Thanks for explaining how your dynamic works.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 23

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 12:33:43 PM

sapphirepleasure

Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline

Wow Noah,

I wish to god I knew how to do the quoty things so I could do your amazing post justice but I will do my best.

Exploring the territory. Something that I am so utterly willing to do with this man in a way I never ever anticipated. Things that I told other Masters were hard limits (watersports being one) I've offered and asked for with him. Funny what happens when you feel completely safe and utterly in love with someone and willing to submit in every way.

But then we run across the 'issues', the abuse, the broken places, and I hadn't hidden any of this from him, had told him of it and my willingness to face the scary places, my years of therapy to overcome it and how I want to go all the way. Until faced with a sobbing girl last night I don't think he had any idea how badly I was fucked up though, and I had to tell him that I didn't want him to hold back next time (he'd told me he wouldn't be so 'hard' on me, and he hadn't been at all) and of course I would want it again, and again, deeper and harder, of course I want to be constantly marked by my Master and I trust him to guide me and take me where only he can.

Funny you mention the snake thing. My mother is so frightened of snakes she has us check all the magazines when they arrive and cut out pictures of snakes so she won't have to encounter them. Me, I want to face my fears and embrace them. It's taken me 45 years to be able to come to the place where I can submit after being told I would have it beaten into me but I want to do it actively, with my whole heart, to this man, who loves and cares for me and is strong and not beating me out of weakness as my father did. I do know the difference in my head but I don't want to stay in my head overanalyzing everything.

God, you're right about the NFL, WWF or Civil War Reenactors! Instead I have a man who is truly everything I could have ever wished for intellectually, spiritually, physically, sensually, who's created a life and a home that he's invited me into that is nirvana. The only catch is that I have to face my deepest fears and be healed and free. How scary/cool is that?

So it's going to take some time. I'm not going to avoid it. It's not my way. He said it could take years for me to get to the level where he would like me to be but he's in no rush. I told him that maybe I will surprise him and have a break through sooner. It won't be for lack of willingness or devotion. He's definitely worth it, but then, you already knew that.

(in reply to Noah)

Post #: 24

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 12:36:24 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Well, Arpig - I did not know you were a Sadist! Now I do now (sorry for the oversight).

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 25

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 1:38:53 PM

trixr4kids

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

I was beaten abusively by a manic-depressive father throughout my entire childhood and it wasn't out of love but out of a lack of control. I was the scapegoat and 'whipping boy' for our family. He didn't beat my mother or the other kids to speak of but me, his namesake and oldest child. I think for this reason I resisted coming into the lifestyle for so long and yet I craved being spanked as an adult, in order to reclaim, to relive (on my terms, perhaps? with someone who I trust, who loves me?) and to be whole. So pain is triggering emotion in me and it is the love/pain dichotomy that I am struggling with big time. You nailed it. And I must get past it in order to accept my Master's love which is deep and real. And obviously it's no accident that I was drawn to this lifestyle and chose this man as my life partner. I don't want to keep avoiding the hard stuff. I want to go all the way through and be able to take it all.

Hi sapphire,
I'm a sub and I too was the only person in my house that was abused. Mine was not beatings, but rather molestation. I understand how that makes you feel & I'm sorry that happened to you. I've read people that are abused when they are young have some way of thinking the attention of the abuse equates to love & seek abusive mates to fill that void.
The fact you see the abuse for what it was and are not having an abusive relationship now shows what a strong healthy person you are.
Often new sub's even though they find the sceneing with their Dom as hot have theses kinds of questions comming up in the beginning.
You just need time to adjust your mind to the notion that the power exchanged between the two of you is a beautiful sensational expression of your energy and devotion to each other and in no way is reflective of abuse. This will not happen overnight, but I believe you'll get there. As long as you trust your Master has your best interests at heart and can see his love you'll be able to work on coming around to the heavier play gradually.
I also think what Arpig said may help you. I know I can take a hell of a lot more intense play and enjoy it if I'm sexually stimulated too.
Even now after I've been in the scene for a few years can get very distressed and wonder why the hell I let someone hurt me & wonder if I haven't lost my mind, but then the submissive in me reminds me of the joy, attention, expression and unity I feel when I'm doing a scene with someone I love. Most of the time that comes is when I'm beat, but not turned on somehow also.
I'd also like to suggest maybe asking your Master to try other spanking implements instead of a cane. Maybe a paddle, his hand, or a belt might be something more to your tolerance levels. Some can play so intensly hard they'll be bruised for weeks with one thing & if you lightly spank them with some other thing they'll safeword out as they can't take it.
Overall it sounds like you have a good Master and in time this distressing question & feelings will be but a distant memory.
Just relax your muscles as much as possible when your being spanked as it actually hurts less and damages your butt less & trust your Master and you'll be fine.
I wish you luck on your new journey as a submissive.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 26

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 1:47:34 PM

NurseKitty

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Syracuse, New York
Status: offline

I've been a member of this site for about 2 months now and can say without a doubt this is the most insightful thread I've read. It is relevent on so many levels and for so many reasons.

Having just read the entire thing from start to finish just now, can i just second the props given to the OP for not only being willing but being able to expand her mind/body/heart/etc. As a new submissive-slash-girlfriend (8 months) of a long-time Dom-slash-masochist, not only has sapphirepleasure expressed many of my own thoughts (are we related?), the masochists who have been gracious enough to respond have articulated ideas and thoughts i've had/intuited about my own Dom and relationship in a way i've not been able to do as of yet. Truly, Dr. Phil could take a lesson about honesty and compassion and sharing of information in a non-judgmental way from the lot of you who have posted here.

I would like to ask which is the original sadism thread that sapphirepleasure read which prompted her to create this one.

Threads like this is why I spend an extra half hour at night online at my computer. We all need a good, safe place to ask questions and talk about what might be on our minds. Thank you again for creating this thread, and thank you again to the masochists who have provided me with not only valuable insight but more appreciation and affection for my own (and only) masochist.

_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. ~ Mae West

(in reply to trixr4kids)

Post #: 27

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 2:11:45 PM

sapphirepleasure

Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline

NurseKitty,

I'm so glad that this thread has been helpful to you as it has to me. The thread I refered to was this: How Far Can a Sadist Really Go: Just Curious http://www.collarchat.com/m_487582/mpage_1/key_sadism/tm.htm

The forums here are so invaluable as a place to find information and support as we find our way in this lifestyle and also to connect with people of like minds. Incidentally, it's also how I became aware of my Master, after reading his posts on here for several months, and then following Noah's suggestion to contact him. :) Yay, collarme!

< Message edited by sapphirepleasure -- 7/28/2006 2:13:40 PM >

(in reply to NurseKitty)

Post #: 28

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 2:15:49 PM

NurseKitty

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Syracuse, New York
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

NurseKitty,

I'm so glad that this thread has been helpful to you as it has to me. I also dealt with childhood sexual abuse so I can identify. Anytime our boundaries as a child are violated it's a challenge to get it sorted out later.

The thread I refered to was this: How Far Can a Sadist Really Go: Just Curious http://www.collarchat.com/m_487582/mpage_1/key_sadism/tm.htm

The forums here are so invaluable as a place to find information and support as we find our way in this lifestyle and also to connect with people of like minds. Incidentally, it's also how I became aware of my Master, after reading his posts on here for several months, and then following Noah's suggestion to contact him. :) Yay, collarme!

While I've thankfully never had to deal with any abuse or molestation issues, this thread has proven most likely equally relavent to me as it has been to you.

Thank you for posting that link. There is so much activity on these message boards that one is liable to miss something!

While I didn't meet my Sir via a website (I was literally vanilla 'til I met him) I did meet him online and have been greatful for that every day for the past 8 months.

_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. ~ Mae West

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 29

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 2:41:31 PM

sapphirepleasure

Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline

Hi trixr4kids,

I'm so sorry you suffered sexual abuse as a child. I dealt with that as well and found myself going through a very promiscuous stage as an adult as a result of not having any boundaries as a child. At least now I am able to channel that into being Master's slut and pleasing only him, and it so happens that he is a man who has chosen not to share me with anyone.

Yes, being sexually stimulated really is the key for me. When I start overanalyzing it or questioning his motives (especially during a scene) I just lose it.

He does use the other things you suggested--his hand, a paddle, and he plans to use a flogger and straps as well. The thing that's so wonderful about canes is how nicely they mark, and that's something that both of us love. In the past when my training dom marked me, it was with a much thinner cane and so I marked more easily with what seemed to be the same amount of pain whereas these canes are spreading the pain out over a larger area so I'm not marking as easily I think. As I said, we're still learning each other so I know we'll sort it out. His technique is great but somehow my headspace hasn't been as open as it could be yet. I know that it will keep improving and that the counsel I've gotten today through this thread and the discussion that he and I are sure to have after reading it together will help.

Relax & breathe, I know!

xo

(in reply to trixr4kids)

Post #: 30

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 3:06:19 PM

ravn

Posts: 328
Joined: 3/16/2006
Status: offline

I am, in all truthfulness, a masochist. I wasn't born to enjoy pain. Nor was i born to wear a collar. It is something i have given myself over to. I found early on that one of the ways to be able to accept pain easier is to get sexually arrousaed and then beg for it. Let pain and pleasure become synonymous in your mind that might lower the barrier a bit.

_____________________________

Masochism is a valuable job skill.
Chuck Palahniuk
Love is a sweet tyranny, because the lover endureth his torments willingly.
~Proverb ( bring on the tyranny!)

(in reply to NurseKitty)

Post #: 31

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 5:58:24 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

As a slave who is not a natural pain slut but who adores my Master and wants to please him in every way, I am struggling to understand how he can love me so deeply and yet need to hurt me. Every other aspect of our relationship is so perfect and he says that I am the most submissive girl he's ever known and I so long to please him, but last night when he caned me (actually a relatively mild caning that left me only barely marked), I fell into a sub drop and found myself sobbing and wondering why I have to earn his love by doing something that hurts so badly.

It really shook him to see me so traumatized and he held me and assured me of his love and told me that it wasn't true, that I didn't have to earn his love. I need to understand how a sadist feels so that I can accept my Master's need to hurt me in this way, and I need to find a headspace in which I can accept this pain that takes me to places that are seemingly intolerable.

I would appreciate any help that you can give.

Hello sapphirepleasure and welcome to WIITWD in the SM aspect.

There are many levels of sadism, as KOM noted. The levels can range all the way from someone who enjoys giving a light spanking, especially when their partner enjoys it to someone whose sexual arousal arises with the more pain that he inflicts on their partner with no consideration for their partner other than that their partner stay alive until the sadist is through (the screams and trembling and whimpering and agony are crucial to this arousal).

Like most sadists who engage in SM play, I fall between the two extremes. Like Merc, I want a partner who enjoys having pain inflicted. I get zero pleasure and zero arousal from working my sadistic ways on someone who is not enjoying it at all and merely tolerating it to please me. Part of that is my wiring as a sadist and sensualist and eroticist and part of it is personal wiring (reminds too much of the partners who "just lie back until it's over with while figuring out whether to buy Tide or Cheer...~shudders~). Their pleasure in what I am doing to them enhances my own pleasure and satisfaction in what I am doing to them and in their response to it. Cries and tears and whimpers and moans and body jerks and twitching are all good when I know that there is pleasure and a good headspace going on within the recipient.

It seems to me that you and your Master are going to have to sit down and have a serious discussion as to where your masochism level lies and where his sadistic levels lie and how important these elements are to the overall dynamic you share. Besides the fact that I think all issues should be discussed seriously, especially when there is a problem, I also believe that you cannot train someone to enjoy either giving or receiving pain. It is something that either comes on through your own inner changes or it does not. If these elements are important to you and he both but you still have this huge divergence of what the two of you get from it, then the two of you are going to have to work at coming to something that accomodates both of you in a satisfactory manner...whether that be him playing with someone who can handle that kind of pain when he 'has' to play heavy or you deciding that you wish to and can come to terms with being the happy recipient of something that does not bring you pleasure and wherein your happiness comes in the pleasure of being able to do this for him, without recrimination or other ways of making him feel guilty or bad about it afterwards or something else that the two of you decide upon.

I wish you luck.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 32

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 8:56:56 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Well, Arpig - I did not know you were a Sadist!

That's just because you haven't had the pleasure of having me sing for you

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 33

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 9:23:09 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

sapphirepleasure:

I cant come anywhere near the intelligent insights you have already recieved here. I will add only this....Like you, I am not a pain slut. Pain to me just feels like pain, but if you can somehow get to a place where you view it as enduring it for your Master, for his pleasure, as an aspect of your submission, it may help you to feel differently about it.

In my own experience I have found that there are extreme emotions (that I cant even find words for) that come alive inside of me that can only be born from suffering for another's pleasure. Maybe thats not even healthy, I dont know. It just *is* and I dont question it any more. I just know that it helps me to endure knowing that Im taking it for the person I am in submission to. I dislike the pain, but love the state of mind of being at another's mercy and him knowing full well that Im clenching my teeth and seeing red and even screaming into a pillow or whatever I have to do in order to grin and bear it until he's done. Then after its over I feel closer and more connected emotionally to the person.

I do think a submissive is capable of building up a level of endurance. Maybe...just maybe, you are feeling like its not ok for this to be enjoyed or celebrated, and maybe that holds you back to some extent. Its all about finding the right perspective to view it from instead of letting it take you down the road to an unpleasant past. And if he is willing to help you to acheive that ends (which it sounds like he is), I dont see how it could *not* improve. It could even *enhance* your closeness. To me, the S and M aspect of a Ds relationship is something really special to be shared between two people. Its about something so much more substantial than the pain itself. What could be more intimate than one party laying out their physical body in complete trust to another, and the other party devouring what you offer? Thats what its about, in my opinion. The pain is just a necessary evil, without which the emotional connection would not exist.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 34

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/28/2006 11:35:14 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

This is a thread that maybe of some interest to you as well as.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_241660/mpage_1/key_pain%252Ctolerance/tm.htm#241660

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 35

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/29/2006 12:40:30 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
If your master is a sadist, and you are not finding pleasure in his activities, then perhaps he needs to back up some and start over, sexualising the experience for you, go back to light spankings while using a vibrator, or twisting your nipples as you orgasm.

Arpig narrowed it down best with that. I can assure you that a sadistic Master can love you while wanting to cause pain, but it is a technique issue with what he is doing, as Arpig suggests. I think most any woman can be brought into heavier bdsm if you start with light spankings and gradually increase things as pointed out.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 36

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/29/2006 7:39:43 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
First of all, regarding being hurt by someone you love and learning to accept it. I think that perhaps one of the reasons I am struggling so with this idea (and you are right, my Master is definitely a loving sadist like you are, there is no doubt in my mind about that) is that I was beaten abusively by a manic-depressive father throughout my entire childhood and it wasn't out of love but out of a lack of control. I was the scapegoat and 'whipping boy' for our family. He didn't beat my mother or the other kids to speak of but me, his namesake and oldest child. I think for this reason I resisted coming into the lifestyle for so long and yet I craved being spanked as an adult, in order to reclaim, to relive (on my terms, perhaps? with someone who I trust, who loves me?) and to be whole. So pain is triggering emotion in me and it is the love/pain dichotomy that I am struggling with big time.

sapphirepleasure,

I read this and I wanted to share with you the even those who enjoy pain can have some types of activities that trigger painful emotions. My Lord has recently decided that he will let no one else use a paddle on me at this point, not even alandra. Back in May when he and I played in his dungeon he did something during the play that triggered the memories of being spanked as a child and all the negative emotions of feeling like a worthless girl because of it. Since then, anytime he uses the paddle I have broken down immediately and just sobbed.

I have always had difficulty being hit in the ass with anything. Sometimes it made me cry and then sometimes it just pissed me off. But since he triggered those memories it now makes me feel worthless and like I have done something horribly wrong. He and I are working through it very slowly and he is taking baby steps because the risk of harm to me or the relationship is higher than other play activities. They are very emotional scenes that require a lot of aftercare when they are done.

What you are experiencing in response to the pain is not uncommon and if you are willing and ready, it can be worked through. It just takes time and patience. I don’t believe that it can be rushed or forced. Given the emotional association that you have with pain and your past, I don’t think that you can make a universal statement about whether you do or do not enjoy submitting to pain. You don’t right now because of the emotional triggers. However, if you work through those emotions and start associating positive things with pain you might find a way to enjoy some of it. This is not to say that you will become a masochist, but that you might find pleasure in submitting to him in this aspect.

Just a few thoughts from the other side of the coin…

Knight’s kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 37

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/29/2006 8:07:10 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

i feel sort of guilty when my Dom cause me pain, it is my upbringing screaming you should not let him do that. It are dificult barriors to get over. I a light machosist, but i dont apriciate alot of pain, and usualy the way i have found work best is to try to block it. However it depends on what you want, do you want to get to like pain or to simply endure it. To endure it there are many thecniqes like meditation and so on that would be helpful.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 38

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/29/2006 8:10:24 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Hi Tammyjo,

Yes, I do understand the distinction between hurting and harming. Oftentimes the pain I feel is very clearly associated with old events that are triggered and being purged and not the transitory pain of the current 'scene'.

Master is very good about warming me up and mixing pleasure with pain. For some reason last night though I was just feeling very open and vulnerable and when the pain got so intense physically (or afterwards, actually), I had all of these false thoughts and emotions come flooding up that we had to sort through.

Thanks for explaining how your dynamic works.

Old events can indeed get triggered by BDSM.

When that I happens, I personally end things, calm everyone down, and we talk. I may suggest therapy. I watch very carefully and am very wary of pushing triggers because I am not a therapist.

My biggest suggestion, sapphirepleasure, is to take it one scene at a time and never pretend to feel what you don't but try to relax. Over time the sensations may change for you but don't focus on it and don't push yourself or have a time limit in mind.

As long as you have a healthy Ds relationships things will develop as they should. And you are wise to reach out when you need help, both of you are wise if you do so. It isn't weakness nor a sign that your relationship needs "fixing" -- just a sign of how much you both value each other and your dynamic.

Not you but for anyone else thinking it isn't fair that non-masochist slaves have to suffer through SM for their owners, I can only say this is one of the differences between being a bottom or a submissive and being someone's slave in my opinion. I do not think it is easy at all to be someone's slave. I respect anyone who can be a slave and be a good slave at that because it is work.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 39

RE: Learning to Please My Master, The Sadist - 7/30/2006 6:46:02 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

I agree Tammy Jo, it is a diffrence between a Dominant/submissive relationship where all is aranged and negotiated, in a Master/slave rlationship the slave is property and if the slave have to suffer for the Master`s plessure so be it. But personaly i also think it inportant that the Master considers the feelings of the slave and protect him or her and dont push so far an so fast as to truly harm the slave.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 40

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