quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

~FRing it~

Im just wondering out loud... if maybe SWAT got called out in this particular case because perhaps law enforcement was aware she was a military veteran...who would have a heck of a lot more specialized weapons training than a Jane American citizen like me? It breaks my heart to see our veterans in so much emotional pain and trauma that 22 of our heroes commit suicide every day or other heroes get caught up in horrible situations like this.

Im sure it was very hard for the officers as well since many are no doubt military veterans themselves. I imagine it was incredibly hard to separate that veteran brotherhood/sisterhood they no doubt share and their responsibility to uphold the law and protect life. And while they lay their lives on the line willingly, I imagine all of us can understand that they all want to go home to their families too.

The place she lived was an apartment complex from what I read, correct? Sadly bullets dont stay within the 4 walls of an apartment. Could you imagine the shitstorm that police department would have been in if one of that poor woman's accidentally fired bullets struck and killed one of her neighbors? I do realize SWAT coming in was equally putting people at risk, but I imagine neighbors were evacuated before SWAT set up. Or perhaps SWAT presence enabled a more safe way of evacuating her neighbors out of harm's way?

As for the shooting itself, that is something only the investigation determines as far as the specifics of what happened in that apartment.

Ultimately and most sadly, there is no upside to any of this. A woman lost her life and an officer(s) shot someone to death in the line of duty. A family and friends are devastated. And we as a country see how badly we are failing to honor our promises made to our veterans to take care of them after they come home.

People don't know what cops go through. The SWAT guys will have little onus in this but I'm betting the incident commander still hasn't been home yet. The worse case senerio that could have happened here, in my mind even worse than being shot by cops, was once explained to me by my brother. It happened to him while on patrol one time. Neighbors complained of a foul smell coming from an apartment. He arrived and realized what the smell was and entered the apartment. Inside he found the occupant with his brains sprayed all over from a self inflicted shotgun wound. But worse, the guy had two dogs and after a while while of not being fed they began to eat the occupant and excrete him all over the apartment. This woman had two dogs. Had everyone just ignored the situation what my brother found could have happened. She could have died alone with nobody even noticing. I can guarantee you not one cop there wanted her dead.

It's a gross story and I'm only telling because people don't realize what cops deal with. Every time they pull up to an incident they have a lot to consider that we all get to discuss at our leisure and without the benefits of all of the facts. I'm saying again, the facts will come out. We should wait for them.

Bullshit, and bullshit again.
You dont know any such thing, if they didnt want people dead they would not use the methods they use, which ALWAYS end up with the people dead. DUH!

So you agree with the pea brained logic that the only 2 choices available are 1) ignore it completely or 2) blast down the doors guns blazing.

No other possible methods to resolve these issues that would result in people living are available, none, zippo, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

We don't know how it got there so yes we do need to know more.
How log did the police wait.
Howlong should they have waited to be long enough?
Did she make threats, we don't know. You are making a lot of assumptions based on your bias, not facts.

Why does it matter how long the police waited? What was their hurry? Why couldn’t they have waited a little bit longer? I am no expert of course but it seems to me there should’ve been other tactics that could be used instead of assaulting the barricade.

Is there no other plan for situations like this which occur all too frequently?

Stories like this really piss me off!

You don't know but for the cops to be wrong it should have been longer, even though with the situation she could have slit her wrists and
bled out while they were waiting. All you know is you need an excuse to claim the cops were wrong. And yes it does matter how long the cops waited. Of course whatever amount of time it was you would find an excuse to claim it was wrong.
If it doesn't matter how long then you can't claim they waited the wrong amount of time. Again you just want an excuse to say they are wrong, not a reason, just an excuse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

~FRing it~

Im just wondering out loud... if maybe SWAT got called out in this particular case because perhaps law enforcement was aware she was a military veteran...who would have a heck of a lot more specialized weapons training than a Jane American citizen like me? It breaks my heart to see our veterans in so much emotional pain and trauma that 22 of our heroes commit suicide every day or other heroes get caught up in horrible situations like this.

Im sure it was very hard for the officers as well since many are no doubt military veterans themselves. I imagine it was incredibly hard to separate that veteran brotherhood/sisterhood they no doubt share and their responsibility to uphold the law and protect life. And while they lay their lives on the line willingly, I imagine all of us can understand that they all want to go home to their families too.

The place she lived was an apartment complex from what I read, correct? Sadly bullets dont stay within the 4 walls of an apartment. Could you imagine the shitstorm that police department would have been in if one of that poor woman's accidentally fired bullets struck and killed one of her neighbors? I do realize SWAT coming in was equally putting people at risk, but I imagine neighbors were evacuated before SWAT set up. Or perhaps SWAT presence enabled a more safe way of evacuating her neighbors out of harm's way?

As for the shooting itself, that is something only the investigation determines as far as the specifics of what happened in that apartment.

Ultimately and most sadly, there is no upside to any of this. A woman lost her life and an officer(s) shot someone to death in the line of duty. A family and friends are devastated. And we as a country see how badly we are failing to honor our promises made to our veterans to take care of them after they come home.

People don't know what cops go through. The SWAT guys will have little onus in this but I'm betting the incident commander still hasn't been home yet. The worse case senerio that could have happened here, in my mind even worse than being shot by cops, was once explained to me by my brother. It happened to him while on patrol one time. Neighbors complained of a foul smell coming from an apartment. He arrived and realized what the smell was and entered the apartment. Inside he found the occupant with his brains sprayed all over from a self inflicted shotgun wound. But worse, the guy had two dogs and after a while while of not being fed they began to eat the occupant and excrete him all over the apartment. This woman had two dogs. Had everyone just ignored the situation what my brother found could have happened. She could have died alone with nobody even noticing. I can guarantee you not one cop there wanted her dead.

It's a gross story and I'm only telling because people don't realize what cops deal with. Every time they pull up to an incident they have a lot to consider that we all get to discuss at our leisure and without the benefits of all of the facts. I'm saying again, the facts will come out. We should wait for them.

Bullshit, and bullshit again.
You dont know any such thing, if they didnt want people dead they would not use the methods they use, which ALWAYS end up with the people dead. DUH!

So you agree with the pea brained logic that the only 2 choices available are 1) ignore it completely or 2) blast down the doors guns blazing.

No other possible methods to resolve these issues that would result in people living are available, none, zippo, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

~FRing it~

Im just wondering out loud... if maybe SWAT got called out in this particular case because perhaps law enforcement was aware she was a military veteran...who would have a heck of a lot more specialized weapons training than a Jane American citizen like me? It breaks my heart to see our veterans in so much emotional pain and trauma that 22 of our heroes commit suicide every day or other heroes get caught up in horrible situations like this.

Im sure it was very hard for the officers as well since many are no doubt military veterans themselves. I imagine it was incredibly hard to separate that veteran brotherhood/sisterhood they no doubt share and their responsibility to uphold the law and protect life. And while they lay their lives on the line willingly, I imagine all of us can understand that they all want to go home to their families too.

The place she lived was an apartment complex from what I read, correct? Sadly bullets dont stay within the 4 walls of an apartment. Could you imagine the shitstorm that police department would have been in if one of that poor woman's accidentally fired bullets struck and killed one of her neighbors? I do realize SWAT coming in was equally putting people at risk, but I imagine neighbors were evacuated before SWAT set up. Or perhaps SWAT presence enabled a more safe way of evacuating her neighbors out of harm's way?

As for the shooting itself, that is something only the investigation determines as far as the specifics of what happened in that apartment.

Ultimately and most sadly, there is no upside to any of this. A woman lost her life and an officer(s) shot someone to death in the line of duty. A family and friends are devastated. And we as a country see how badly we are failing to honor our promises made to our veterans to take care of them after they come home.

People don't know what cops go through. The SWAT guys will have little onus in this but I'm betting the incident commander still hasn't been home yet. The worse case senerio that could have happened here, in my mind even worse than being shot by cops, was once explained to me by my brother. It happened to him while on patrol one time. Neighbors complained of a foul smell coming from an apartment. He arrived and realized what the smell was and entered the apartment. Inside he found the occupant with his brains sprayed all over from a self inflicted shotgun wound. But worse, the guy had two dogs and after a while while of not being fed they began to eat the occupant and excrete him all over the apartment. This woman had two dogs. Had everyone just ignored the situation what my brother found could have happened. She could have died alone with nobody even noticing. I can guarantee you not one cop there wanted her dead.

It's a gross story and I'm only telling because people don't realize what cops deal with. Every time they pull up to an incident they have a lot to consider that we all get to discuss at our leisure and without the benefits of all of the facts. I'm saying again, the facts will come out. We should wait for them.

Bullshit, and bullshit again.
You dont know any such thing, if they didnt want people dead they would not use the methods they use, which ALWAYS end up with the people dead. DUH!

So you agree with the pea brained logic that the only 2 choices available are 1) ignore it completely or 2) blast down the doors guns blazing.

No other possible methods to resolve these issues that would result in people living are available, none, zippo, right?

No, I've didn't say that. You're making up what I said instead of understanding what I said. Since the beginning of this thread I've said I'll wait and see when the facts come out. So I've said no such thing about "any" alternatives.

quote:

What should they do

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora
Legit question since Im not at all familiar with military services. What Ive heard is honestly how hard it is dealing with the VA and the number of veterans who commit suicide every day. Ill admit that perhaps Ive watched too many documentaries though. Im not military, so I honestly have no clue how it works. Are there really ways to easily get the help desperately needed in a crisis situation like that...if you can bring up the courage to speak out that you are in crisis?

quote:

They are only required to attempt to investigate your murder after its done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The humanity bumped up against reality in a litigious society. I've said more than once we should leave medical care alone and socialize the legal profession. That's how local agencies have been forced to think.

I believe the police motto is to “serve and protect” not to worry about lawsuits against the city. I find your position just absolutely pathetic. And anyway I don’t believe that’s how local agencies have been forced to think. That’s just some generalization you have made up and pretend that it is valid argument. It is no such thing. You have no basis for making that observation.

Having spent half my career being a department head in a couple of local agencies and the other half my career on the outside dealing with them, I'm pretty sure I have a good view of how they are run and the motivations for what they do. For your information, I've always thought it was pathetic as well. But that doesn't make it any less true.

Since you're the look it up at the Supreme Court guy, look up and see what the Supreme Court says about Cops protecting you. It ain't their job. They are only required to attempt to investigate your murder after its done.

I wish I could tell you how many times I've sat on committees that were tasked to come up with a catchy job description for a city department. Many change them from time to time as new officials are elected. It's usually all bullshit to sound good for the new major.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

~FRing it~

Im just wondering out loud... if maybe SWAT got called out in this particular case because perhaps law enforcement was aware she was a military veteran...who would have a heck of a lot more specialized weapons training than a Jane American citizen like me? It breaks my heart to see our veterans in so much emotional pain and trauma that 22 of our heroes commit suicide every day or other heroes get caught up in horrible situations like this.

Im sure it was very hard for the officers as well since many are no doubt military veterans themselves. I imagine it was incredibly hard to separate that veteran brotherhood/sisterhood they no doubt share and their responsibility to uphold the law and protect life. And while they lay their lives on the line willingly, I imagine all of us can understand that they all want to go home to their families too.

The place she lived was an apartment complex from what I read, correct? Sadly bullets dont stay within the 4 walls of an apartment. Could you imagine the shitstorm that police department would have been in if one of that poor woman's accidentally fired bullets struck and killed one of her neighbors? I do realize SWAT coming in was equally putting people at risk, but I imagine neighbors were evacuated before SWAT set up. Or perhaps SWAT presence enabled a more safe way of evacuating her neighbors out of harm's way?

As for the shooting itself, that is something only the investigation determines as far as the specifics of what happened in that apartment.

Ultimately and most sadly, there is no upside to any of this. A woman lost her life and an officer(s) shot someone to death in the line of duty. A family and friends are devastated. And we as a country see how badly we are failing to honor our promises made to our veterans to take care of them after they come home.

People don't know what cops go through. The SWAT guys will have little onus in this but I'm betting the incident commander still hasn't been home yet. The worse case senerio that could have happened here, in my mind even worse than being shot by cops, was once explained to me by my brother. It happened to him while on patrol one time. Neighbors complained of a foul smell coming from an apartment. He arrived and realized what the smell was and entered the apartment. Inside he found the occupant with his brains sprayed all over from a self inflicted shotgun wound. But worse, the guy had two dogs and after a while while of not being fed they began to eat the occupant and excrete him all over the apartment. This woman had two dogs. Had everyone just ignored the situation what my brother found could have happened. She could have died alone with nobody even noticing. I can guarantee you not one cop there wanted her dead.

It's a gross story and I'm only telling because people don't realize what cops deal with. Every time they pull up to an incident they have a lot to consider that we all get to discuss at our leisure and without the benefits of all of the facts. I'm saying again, the facts will come out. We should wait for them.

Bullshit, and bullshit again.
You dont know any such thing, if they didnt want people dead they would not use the methods they use, which ALWAYS end up with the people dead. DUH!

So you agree with the pea brained logic that the only 2 choices available are 1) ignore it completely or 2) blast down the doors guns blazing.

No other possible methods to resolve these issues that would result in people living are available, none, zippo, right?

No, I've didn't say that. You're making up what I said instead of understanding what I said. Since the beginning of this thread I've said I'll wait and see when the facts come out. So I've said no such thing about "any" alternatives.

yeh yeh yeh after you gave 2 choices, kill em all and let god sort em out or completely ignore it as solutions.

Since the point obviously escaped you, I am pointing out your fallacy as well as bamas that there are more choices available than shoot em all or completey ignore it, but then as a gubmint employee I am sure you understand that block headed dead brained thinking.

Hope that clears it up for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The humanity bumped up against reality in a litigious society. I've said more than once we should leave medical care alone and socialize the legal profession. That's how local agencies have been forced to think.

I believe the police motto is to “serve and protect” not to worry about lawsuits against the city. I find your position just absolutely pathetic. And anyway I don’t believe that’s how local agencies have been forced to think. That’s just some generalization you have made up and pretend that it is valid argument. It is no such thing. You have no basis for making that observation.

Having spent half my career being a department head in a couple of local agencies and the other half my career on the outside dealing with them, I'm pretty sure I have a good view of how they are run and the motivations for what they do. For your information, I've always thought it was pathetic as well. But that doesn't make it any less true.

Since you're the look it up at the Supreme Court guy, look up and see what the Supreme Court says about Cops protecting you. It ain't their job. They are only required to attempt to investigate your murder after its done.

I wish I could tell you how many times I've sat on committees that were tasked to come up with a catchy job description for a city department. Many change them from time to time as new officials are elected. It's usually all bullshit to sound good for the new major.

To serve and protect is the police motto. I did not make that up. I understand their job is to to investigate my homicide, but I would much prefer that they not participate in it. Thank you very much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The humanity bumped up against reality in a litigious society. I've said more than once we should leave medical care alone and socialize the legal profession. That's how local agencies have been forced to think.

I believe the police motto is to “serve and protect” not to worry about lawsuits against the city. I find your position just absolutely pathetic. And anyway I don’t believe that’s how local agencies have been forced to think. That’s just some generalization you have made up and pretend that it is valid argument. It is no such thing. You have no basis for making that observation.

Having spent half my career being a department head in a couple of local agencies and the other half my career on the outside dealing with them, I'm pretty sure I have a good view of how they are run and the motivations for what they do. For your information, I've always thought it was pathetic as well. But that doesn't make it any less true.

Since you're the look it up at the Supreme Court guy, look up and see what the Supreme Court says about Cops protecting you. It ain't their job. They are only required to attempt to investigate your murder after its done.

I wish I could tell you how many times I've sat on committees that were tasked to come up with a catchy job description for a city department. Many change them from time to time as new officials are elected. It's usually all bullshit to sound good for the new major.

To serve and protect is the police motto. I did not make that up. I understand their job is to to investigate my homicide, but I would much prefer that they not participate in it. Thank you very much.

I believe "To Serve and Protect" was on the side of the police car in that famous TV show Adam 12. You'll have to check on this police department.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The humanity bumped up against reality in a litigious society. I've said more than once we should leave medical care alone and socialize the legal profession. That's how local agencies have been forced to think.

I believe the police motto is to “serve and protect” not to worry about lawsuits against the city. I find your position just absolutely pathetic. And anyway I don’t believe that’s how local agencies have been forced to think. That’s just some generalization you have made up and pretend that it is valid argument. It is no such thing. You have no basis for making that observation.

Having spent half my career being a department head in a couple of local agencies and the other half my career on the outside dealing with them, I'm pretty sure I have a good view of how they are run and the motivations for what they do. For your information, I've always thought it was pathetic as well. But that doesn't make it any less true.

Since you're the look it up at the Supreme Court guy, look up and see what the Supreme Court says about Cops protecting you. It ain't their job. They are only required to attempt to investigate your murder after its done.

I wish I could tell you how many times I've sat on committees that were tasked to come up with a catchy job description for a city department. Many change them from time to time as new officials are elected. It's usually all bullshit to sound good for the new major.

To serve and protect is the police motto. I did not make that up. I understand their job is to to investigate my homicide, but I would much prefer that they not participate in it. Thank you very much.

I believe "To Serve and Protect" was on the side of the police car in that famous TV show Adam 12. You'll have to check on this police department.

"To Serve and Protect," is a phrase made famous by the Los Angeles Police De­partment and adopted, in various forms, by law enforcement agencies across the United States.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

What should they do

Leave the fucking woman alone, that's what they should do.

quote:

Till the neighbors complain about the smell.

quote:

And we still don't know what caused any decision made here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Till the neighbors complain about the smell.

Sure, why not? Same deal if she happened to die of a heart attack, right?
Face it, the cops had no fucking business being there in the first place.

quote:

They should ignore it when people call them in? Did you forget or just ignore the
fact that the neighbors called them in?