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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 1:25:00 PM

MasterWickedness

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Any of you in the path of this one?

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 2:10:39 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

vincent I believe hurricane preparedness should be treated just like earthquake preparedness. Building codes must be strengthened for new construction to assure structures can withstand the wind and water... Structures destroyed must be rebuilt according to code... Areas that will not afford reasonable protection from the elements must be off limits to construction or reconstruction.

Not just for hurricanes either... I think all new construction or reconstruction should be required to have a safe room that can withstand tornadoes and hurricanes.

I do not believe we can go on bailing out people that refuse to protect themselves in a reasonable manner.... that includes you and me.

I live in tornado alley and I paid to have the roof and building strapped to the foundation... it will also help if the New Madrid fault ruptures again.

Butch

That’s fine, Butch, but you are 25 years too late. State of Florida changed its building codes some 25 years ago after Hurricane Andrew. Our homes are built of concrete block and the roof is tied down with rebar to the concrete pad below. The roofing is shaped on all four sides in a pyramid so as to minimize air getting in under the eves structure and blowing it off. There are 60 heavy air conditioning units sitting on top of the roof, which is additional help in keeping the roof intact. My patio doors are super heavy and have laminate between the glass planes. They are shatter resistant. I don’t know what more we could do to keep us safe. I surely would not want to take my chances out on the open road with 6 million other people in bumper-to-bumper traffic running out of gasoline. No thank you very much.

One of the reasons why these storms are so powerful may possibly be that the waters are exceptionally warm in the ocean surrounding us. Now that just may have something to do with global warming. I’m not saying that’s a fact but it is a consideration.

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 2:28:20 PM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

That’s fine, Butch, but you are 25 years too late. State of Florida changed its building codes some 25 years ago after Hurricane Andrew. Our homes are built of concrete block and the roof is tied down with rebar to the concrete pad below. The roofing is shaped on all four sides in a pyramid so as to minimize air getting in under the eves structure and blowing it off. There are 60 heavy air conditioning units sitting on top of the roof, which is additional help in keeping the roof intact. My patio doors are super heavy and have laminate between the glass planes. They are shatter resistant. I don’t know what more we could do to keep us safe. I surely would not want to take my chances out on the open road with 6 million other people in bumper-to-bumper traffic running out of gasoline. No thank you very much.

One of the reasons why these storms are so powerful may possibly be that the waters are exceptionally warm in the ocean surrounding us. Now that just may have something to do with global warming. I’m not saying that’s a fact but it is a consideration.

All that is well and good Vincent, but the simple truth is that the only structure that has been proven to be 100% immune to Hurricane force winds is a monolithic dome or any design that has zero flat surfaces for wind to hit.

Examples

The flightline structures on homestead were supposed to withstand a near miss by a nuke, but Andrew proved that flawed

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 2:46:36 PM

MasterWickedness

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Are you saying nothing is immune? Then I would agree with that.

Didn't you start a thread in the last 0-14 days laughing at the lack of hurricanes and scoffing at global warming?

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 3:04:44 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

That’s fine, Butch, but you are 25 years too late. State of Florida changed its building codes some 25 years ago after Hurricane Andrew. Our homes are built of concrete block and the roof is tied down with rebar to the concrete pad below. The roofing is shaped on all four sides in a pyramid so as to minimize air getting in under the eves structure and blowing it off. There are 60 heavy air conditioning units sitting on top of the roof, which is additional help in keeping the roof intact. My patio doors are super heavy and have laminate between the glass planes. They are shatter resistant. I don’t know what more we could do to keep us safe. I surely would not want to take my chances out on the open road with 6 million other people in bumper-to-bumper traffic running out of gasoline. No thank you very much.

One of the reasons why these storms are so powerful may possibly be that the waters are exceptionally warm in the ocean surrounding us. Now that just may have something to do with global warming. I’m not saying that’s a fact but it is a consideration.

All that is well and good Vincent, but the simple truth is that the only structure that has been proven to be 100% immune to Hurricane force winds is a monolithic dome or any design that has zero flat surfaces for wind to hit.

Examples

The flightline structures on homestead were supposed to withstand a near miss by a nuke, but Andrew proved that flawed

I doubt that anyone could afford to build a home that is 100% secure from the destructive forces of nature. Well, no one in my tax bracket anyway. That’s why we have insurance. We indulge in risk assessment when we build a home.

Hurricanes do not destroy structures in the same fashion that nuclear devices do. Those structures in the photographs have a lot of air underneath them. I can see where it is easy for heavy winds to get up underneath them and lift them.

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 3:48:44 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

vincent I believe hurricane preparedness should be treated just like earthquake preparedness. Building codes must be strengthened for new construction to assure structures can withstand the wind and water... Structures destroyed must be rebuilt according to code... Areas that will not afford reasonable protection from the elements must be off limits to construction or reconstruction.

Not just for hurricanes either... I think all new construction or reconstruction should be required to have a safe room that can withstand tornadoes and hurricanes.

I do not believe we can go on bailing out people that refuse to protect themselves in a reasonable manner.... that includes you and me.

I live in tornado alley and I paid to have the roof and building strapped to the foundation... it will also help if the New Madrid fault ruptures again.

Butch

Its not easy to figure out how to build a home in certain locations.. if you have a concrete safe room on the main/ground level and think that will save you cuz its never flooded in your area before, then it does flood.. you could be trapped and drown.. that is why they told people here to not go into their attics if the property starts flooding.. Putting in a safe room isnt gonna save you financially either, if the safe room is the only part of the house left.. Some people that raised their house after a previous flood & found their house flooded again with Harvey,.. so how much do you raise a house? If a window or house is built to 110mph winds but the winds are stronger than that, then it may not hold up.. Its easy to say build better/stronger houses but not so easy to figure out how much stronger it needs to be.. and if these hurricanes are any indication, they are going to get stronger and more dangerous & more damaging.. And many times you have multiple risks, like potential for forest fires & earthquakes.. I agree that much more needs to be done but determining what that is becomes the hard part.. And too, its not like crap houses being built today are affordable as it is (unless you are living in Middle Of No Where Ville, then maybe)..

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 6:26:17 PM

kdsub

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Lets take Houston after the latest disaster as an example. Most areas that flooded have flooded before to some extent. In any case it is now known what areas can flood under extreme circumstances. People should not be allowed to rebuild in those areas...and receive federal government aid in the future. In my opinion city , county, and state governments should prohibit reconstruction in these areas. I am all for helping people now who must relocate and doing so will save lives and money in the future.

I will guarantee you that requiring safe rooms in new construction will save lives... as far as financial recovery it should be up to home owners to obtain insurance... If they cannot obtain insurance because of their location then that should tell them they are not in a safe area to raise a family.

People must use common sense when obtaining housing and be aware of potential hazards.

Butch

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 6:26:39 PM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

That’s fine, Butch, but you are 25 years too late. State of Florida changed its building codes some 25 years ago after Hurricane Andrew. Our homes are built of concrete block and the roof is tied down with rebar to the concrete pad below. The roofing is shaped on all four sides in a pyramid so as to minimize air getting in under the eves structure and blowing it off. There are 60 heavy air conditioning units sitting on top of the roof, which is additional help in keeping the roof intact. My patio doors are super heavy and have laminate between the glass planes. They are shatter resistant. I don’t know what more we could do to keep us safe. I surely would not want to take my chances out on the open road with 6 million other people in bumper-to-bumper traffic running out of gasoline. No thank you very much.

One of the reasons why these storms are so powerful may possibly be that the waters are exceptionally warm in the ocean surrounding us. Now that just may have something to do with global warming. I’m not saying that’s a fact but it is a consideration.

All that is well and good Vincent, but the simple truth is that the only structure that has been proven to be 100% immune to Hurricane force winds is a monolithic dome or any design that has zero flat surfaces for wind to hit.

Examples

The flightline structures on homestead were supposed to withstand a near miss by a nuke, but Andrew proved that flawed

I doubt that anyone could afford to build a home that is 100% secure from the destructive forces of nature. Well, no one in my tax bracket anyway. That’s why we have insurance. We indulge in risk assessment when we build a home.

Hurricanes do not destroy structures in the same fashion that nuclear devices do. Those structures in the photographs have a lot of air underneath them. I can see where it is easy for heavy winds to get up underneath them and lift them.

locally, some years ago, we had an EF4 tornado west of here, went straight over what was considered the most bizarre house in west Texas, a geodesic dome.

The home owner replaced a total of 45 ceder shingles and one window.

His neighbor's traditional home, built in 1856 of adobe brick, didnt fair as well, a good chunk of the roof was torn off.

Every other home along the 6 mile path was totally destroyed.

The problem with geodesic construction is that they look weird, and in some neighborhoods, if it aint traditional, forget building it.

Of course, hurricanes have the added storm surge, so you would have to build off the ground, and, as you pointed out, if the wind can get under it, it will lift it.

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 7:28:04 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lets take Houston after the latest disaster as an example. Most areas that flooded have flooded before to some extent. In any case it is now known what areas can flood under extreme circumstances. People should not be allowed to rebuild in those areas...and receive federal government aid in the future. In my opinion city , county, and state governments should prohibit reconstruction in these areas. I am all for helping people now who must relocate and doing so will save lives and money in the future.

I will guarantee you that requiring safe rooms in new construction will save lives... as far as financial recovery it should be up to home owners to obtain insurance... If they cannot obtain insurance because of their location then that should tell them they are not in a safe area to raise a family.

People must use common sense when obtaining housing and be aware of potential hazards.

Butch

I am not disagreeing with you at all.. but you cant move the 4th largest city in the US, and as I posted on another thread, Houston (as well as areas in other counties) was built on a swamp, not only that but parts of Harris County (where Houston is located) are sinking.. some parts have sunk 10 -12 feet since 1920.. and its clay soil... Certainly the riskiest areas should be turned into a park or drainage creek/system...

I am not against safe rooms at all, I think they are a good idea regardless... but whether they save you or not will depend on the situation.. even if you evacuate ahead of a hurricane, they can be used to store your valuables in case of looting.. an it might save your life if you are there and robbed, assuming you can get to it fast enough..

As far as insurance goes, its only as good as the insurance company.. Sandy proved that not all insurance companies can be trusted to pay out what they should.. I do think things are gonna hafta change cuz the govt doesnt have the money to pay out claims where houses should never have been built or where there should have been insurance,.. but then again, werent some of those "too big to fail" companies bailed out during the financial crisis insurance companies????

As far as common sense goes.. its not all that common.. People spend more time researching which toaster to buy than they do what house to buy.. almost all are swayed by a nice appearance, and not how well it was built... thats why builders build what they do..

eta- links
www.houstonchronicle.com/local/explainer/article/The-trouble-with-living-in-a-swamp-Houston-7954514.php
www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/For-years-the-Houston-area-has-been-losing-ground-7951625.php
www.houstonchronicle.com/news/texas/article/AP-EXCLUSIVE-Toxic-waste-sites-flooded-EPA-not-12169198.php
https://www.cbsnews.com/videos/the-storm-after-the-storm/

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 8:09:20 PM

Marini

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Since the storm is scheduled to go up the West coast of Florida, it is going to be an interesting storm.
I am glad the storm has been downgraded to a CAT 3, hopefully Florida won't be battered as much.

I could never live right on the coast of Florida, those that choose to live in coastal cities and town,
surely understand they are at risk.

After seeing the devastation in the Caribbean, I no longer wish to live there!

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 8:13:33 PM

Real0ne

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heading west at 7mph, stalled on the coast of cuba

https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/hurricane-irma-bahamas-florida-georgia-carolinas-forecast

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 8:16:06 PM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Since the storm is scheduled to go up the West coast of Florida, it is going to be an interesting storm.
I am glad the storm has been downgraded to a CAT 3, hopefully Florida won't be battered as much.

I could never live right on the coast of Florida, those that choose to live in coastal cities and town,
surely understand they are at risk.

After seeing the devastation in the Caribbean, I no longer wish to live there!

You do understand that hurricanes have come ashore as far north as Maine?

And considering that most of the DC area was built on swamp land, if a hurricane was to hit the Chesapeake bay region, you people would pretty much be under water?

If you want to avoid major catastrophic storms, I suggest the mid rockies.

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/9/2017 8:23:22 PM

LadyDemura

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I'm still not understanding why the concrete build of Florida isn't combined with the house on stilts build of NC's Outer Banks...

Seems like that would be the style of building that could survive both the storm surge and high winds of a Category 5...

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/10/2017 12:13:39 PM

Marini

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Destructive Irma continues to hit Florida.
The hurricane is moving Northwest at this time.

This is the 1st year on record the US has had 2 Cat 4 LANDFALL'S in the same year!
This is horrible.
I certainly don't recall anything like this in my lifetime.

One million without power, and those numbers will certainly climb, if not double.

Pray for Everybody in Florida, Rick Scott said on t.v.

Daily Mail- Hurricane Irma devastates Florida

< Message edited by Marini -- 9/10/2017 12:16:10 PM >

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/11/2017 5:44:59 PM

Marini

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Over 7.2 million in Florida are without power, some will not have power for weeks.
Poor Jacksonville, where I used to live was hit very hard.

The damage across Florida, is unprecedented.

Downed power lines and debris, all over the state.

NBC- Irma swallows Jacksonville

;(. I am fairly sure Jacksonville, and many other area's of Florida, have never been through anything like this.

< Message edited by Marini -- 9/11/2017 5:55:51 PM >

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/11/2017 8:40:14 PM

BoscoX

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Over 7.2 million in Florida are without power, some will not have power for weeks.
Poor Jacksonville, where I used to live was hit very hard.

The damage across Florida, is unprecedented.

Downed power lines and debris, all over the state.

NBC- Irma swallows Jacksonville

;(. I am fairly sure Jacksonville, and many other area's of Florida, have never been through anything like this.

Downed power lines and trees, that's it?

Anywhere in hurricane country you had better have a plan b for power

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/11/2017 8:44:57 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

I'm still not understanding why the concrete build of Florida isn't combined with the house on stilts build of NC's Outer Banks...

Seems like that would be the style of building that could survive both the storm surge and high winds of a Category 5...

I just can’t imagine constructing “stilts” strong enough to support concrete buildings. You would need to drill down to bedrock but the coral rock that supports the sandy beaches is not strong enough to support any thing. I just can’t envision your idea in reality. But maybe that’s because I am lousy with visions. Then there is always a problem of trying to guess how high the stilts would have to be. There are so many factors involved in the formation and height of the storm surge. Are you going to build for 30 feet or maybe 60 feet? Shrugs.

We in the Fort Lauderdale area were really lucky that the storm went up the West Coast. Our lights came on again early evening today. We wish the very best for the people in the Jacksonville area. It is pretty damn scary.

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/12/2017 5:36:52 AM

Musicmystery

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In the end, wind and water will always win.

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/12/2017 5:55:16 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

I'm still not understanding why the concrete build of Florida isn't combined with the house on stilts build of NC's Outer Banks...

Seems like that would be the style of building that could survive both the storm surge and high winds of a Category 5...

They do it in the Keys a lot. When news comes out of there, we will see if it worked.

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RE: Thoughts on Hurricane Irma - 9/12/2017 6:30:00 AM

HaveRopeWillBind

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

I'm still not understanding why the concrete build of Florida isn't combined with the house on stilts build of NC's Outer Banks...

Seems like that would be the style of building that could survive both the storm surge and high winds of a Category 5...

The Keys are essentially sand bars. A big heavy concrete house atop stilts set into sand probably wouldn't hold up in a big wind. Might withstand a storm surge better depending on the height of the water and if it stayed up through the wind, but you could rebuild three times for the added expenses that sort of construction would add.

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