RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple?

RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple?

Yes

60% (12)

40% (8)

Not sure

0% (0)

Total Votes : 20

(last vote on : 9/26/2017 12:06:55 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 1:58:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV The gay couple was honoring the baker's trade and skills, without concern of his spiritual worthiness, and ready to reward him financially for his efforts. Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." The State holds authority over money, period. Also the State has claimed authority of marriages. Please cite exact scripture forbidding participation in civil events. Because if you don't believe gay marriages are any more Holy than a city counsel meeting, then justify not attending either, according to scripture. The render to Caesar was referring to paying your taxes. Render to God was referring to offering your tithe. The state doesn't hold authority over money except in regards to taxes. I've already provided scripture directly refuting this. But here it is again: Romans 13:1-7 ESV / 288 helpful votes Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience What point are you trying to make? Obey the law? We live in a democratic society where we have a process to question and try to change the law if we want to.

heavyblinker -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 1:59:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Sounds to me that you like to pick your poison over someone else's poison. For many christians, things like believing abortion is ok is a belief that has been allowed to poison society. Same with homosexuality, etc. Their ignorance isn't equal to society's reason.

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:01:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Sounds to me that you like to pick your poison over someone else's poison. For many christians, things like believing abortion is ok is a belief that has been allowed to poison society. Same with homosexuality, etc. Their ignorance isn't equal to society's reason. That's just your opinion.

heavyblinker -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:02:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2015/06/05/actor-defends-christian-bakers-right-to-opt-out-of-gay-weddings-n2008623 A story about an actor's opinion? Wow, you'll post anything. You know, if you branched out and looked at some other sites, you would have more options. Anyways, I also think the baker shouldn't have to make the cake. He should simply face legal consequences instead... or not be a baker. God will take care of him, right?

heavyblinker -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:04:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Sounds to me that you like to pick your poison over someone else's poison. For many christians, things like believing abortion is ok is a belief that has been allowed to poison society. Same with homosexuality, etc. Their ignorance isn't equal to society's reason. That's just your opinion. Obviously it is. But it is a well-reasoned one.

WhoreMods -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:06:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Our tax code is very lenient on churches, synagogues, and mosques. Just as it is for any nonprofit organization. I see no harm in that policy. I do disagree with millionaires being made from any church's funds. And I think Al Sharpton needs to pay up on taxes from money that wasn't made through traditional church services. That was sorta my point: I haven't seen tamaka demanding that churches should pay taxes because our Lord and Saviour said that they should render unto Caesar. [;)]

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:09:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Our tax code is very lenient on churches, synagogues, and mosques. Just as it is for any nonprofit organization. I see no harm in that policy. I do disagree with millionaires being made from any church's funds. And I think Al Sharpton needs to pay up on taxes from money that wasn't made through traditional church services. That was sorta my point: I haven't seen tamaka demanding that churches should pay taxes because our Lord and Saviour said that they should render unto Caesar. [;)] If a law was passed that churches should pay taxes, they would. Personally, i'd be in favor of it.

ShadesDecadent -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:09:56 PM)
One of the troll kings is that one (you haven't worked that out yet have you)? Where is patient zero these days anyway?

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:09:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka And no... you aren't wiling to accept this person's interpretation of the Bible. The problem is that I didn't say that and this argument is apparently too difficult for you to process. My point was that the existence of multiple interpretations proves that God's will cannot be discerned simply by reading the Bible, even if it did contain the indisputable truth. I originally said this: "They assume they are privy to special truths about the universe that override science, individuality, tolerance and basic decency. They ARE ignorant." You then said I was ignorant and I needed to prove them wrong... which I told you is impossible. It is also impossible for them to prove themselves right, which is, again, why their beliefs are rooted in ignorance... and why society is under no obligation to tolerate them. Because it is impossible to discern whether or not they are true/righteous/whatever, they have to be judged on other merits... which again brings us to the fact that society is not obligated to tolerate discrimination simply because it hides behind an unfalsifiable and utterly implausible moral authority. So how are the gays accepting the christian baker's individuality? How is the gay couple tolerating the christian baker's sense of morality and deeply held religious beliefs? How is the gay couple imposing on the christian man's sense of decency? Sort of like being black and alive is interfering with a white supremacist's individuality, right? You don't get to hold a discriminatory belief and then feign victimhood because society frowns upon it... especially when it's for a good reason. As I said, he is allowed to hold his beliefs... but society is not obligated to tolerate them. But it is ok to discriminate against the Christian's beliefs. Btw, christians are part of society. They should not be obligated to tolerate discrimination against them. Please provide New Testament scripture establishing said beliefs, and the required actions dictated by your religion. Because if you fail to do that, you lack legal standing of any sort. If you can bring in the Jews, then feel free to include Old Testament scripture as well. Catholics may be protected by the Catechism. But if isn't Catholicism at war with gay marriage in this case.

WhoreMods -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:12:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Our tax code is very lenient on churches, synagogues, and mosques. Just as it is for any nonprofit organization. I see no harm in that policy. I do disagree with millionaires being made from any church's funds. And I think Al Sharpton needs to pay up on taxes from money that wasn't made through traditional church services. That was sorta my point: I haven't seen tamaka demanding that churches should pay taxes because our Lord and Saviour said that they should render unto Caesar. [;)] If a law was passed that churches should pay taxes, they would. Personally, i'd be in favor of it. Given that Anton La Vey spent most of his life arguing as much, that makes you a Satanist rather than a Christian. (See how easy it is to pick out one isolated belief, isolate it from everything else, and use it to misrepresent everything else somebody believes?)

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:19:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2015/06/05/actor-defends-christian-bakers-right-to-opt-out-of-gay-weddings-n2008623 A story about an actor's opinion? Wow, you'll post anything. You know, if you branched out and looked at some other sites, you would have more options. Anyways, I also think the baker shouldn't have to make the cake. He should simply face legal consequences instead... or not be a baker. God will take care of him, right? To what extent? Because surely, if one bakery has the right to discriminate service, then all do. So how many will choose to do so? And how many other businesses will see that as justification to likewise discriminate. So how far would a gay man or couple have to go, in order to find someone willing to provide basic commercial goods or services of any sort? Can medical services be denied because of sexual orientation? To what extent is discrimination to be tolerated?

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Sounds to me that you like to pick your poison over someone else's poison. For many christians, things like believing abortion is ok is a belief that has been allowed to poison society. Same with homosexuality, etc. Their ignorance isn't equal to society's reason. That's just your opinion. Obviously it is. But it is a well-reasoned one. Reason is a necessary instrument, to be used for good or evil, but it has no moral qualities. REINHARD BENDIX, Embattled Reason

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:25:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka And no... you aren't wiling to accept this person's interpretation of the Bible. The problem is that I didn't say that and this argument is apparently too difficult for you to process. My point was that the existence of multiple interpretations proves that God's will cannot be discerned simply by reading the Bible, even if it did contain the indisputable truth. I originally said this: "They assume they are privy to special truths about the universe that override science, individuality, tolerance and basic decency. They ARE ignorant." You then said I was ignorant and I needed to prove them wrong... which I told you is impossible. It is also impossible for them to prove themselves right, which is, again, why their beliefs are rooted in ignorance... and why society is under no obligation to tolerate them. Because it is impossible to discern whether or not they are true/righteous/whatever, they have to be judged on other merits... which again brings us to the fact that society is not obligated to tolerate discrimination simply because it hides behind an unfalsifiable and utterly implausible moral authority. So how are the gays accepting the christian baker's individuality? How is the gay couple tolerating the christian baker's sense of morality and deeply held religious beliefs? How is the gay couple imposing on the christian man's sense of decency? Sort of like being black and alive is interfering with a white supremacist's individuality, right? You don't get to hold a discriminatory belief and then feign victimhood because society frowns upon it... especially when it's for a good reason. As I said, he is allowed to hold his beliefs... but society is not obligated to tolerate them. But it is ok to discriminate against the Christian's beliefs. Btw, christians are part of society. They should not be obligated to tolerate discrimination against them. Please provide New Testament scripture establishing said beliefs, and the required actions dictated by your religion. Because if you fail to do that, you lack legal standing of any sort. If you can bring in the Jews, then feel free to include Old Testament scripture as well. Catholics may be protected by the Catechism. But if isn't Catholicism at war with gay marriage in this case. What point are you arguing against?

Nnanji -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:27:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji If you see a pattern, perhaps you should look at yourself. I don't have to when it is so blatantly obviously you. I do understand that self examination is something that comes with maturity. I'm not surprised that you haven arrempted it yet. And, your response of "I don't have to it's you" is a good indication that you probably won't for a while. Fuck off. I can sincerely say I have never seen you contribute anything of substance to any topic ever, and your trolling is boring and uncreative. I don't even know if you ever even reached the troll level of reposting shit from RWNJ sites. Even bounty44 taunts everyone with opinion columns from townhall. You on the other actively refuse to support your claims with any evidence whatsoever, claiming that you saw it yourself, therefore it's real, therefore don't argue, therefore you're fucking awesome, therefore you win. That is literally your only argument. Now you are telling me I need self-reflection? I know there are no rules on this site, no one to call anyone out on their bullshit, and it's basically just RWNJs versus the rest... but it is truly baffling how you can repeatedly come to self-congratulate after doling out your delusional, eye-rollingly stupid dad wisdom as if being the boss of whatever you were the boss of somehow means you're a smart person. Seriously, ANYONE who has been paying attention can see right through you. You have contributed nothing to this discussion in the same way you contribute nothing to every other discussion, in the same way you troll like a 65-year old retiree who isn't as sharp as he used to be, and never was all that sharp to begin with anyways. I am seriously angry that more people are not better than you, because there is no excuse not to be. I know that none of this will ever sink in, just like all of the other information you're exposed to never sinks in... but seriously, you really need to stop trying. No one will ever be convinced that you are good at debating anything ever. Temper temper.

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:27:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Our tax code is very lenient on churches, synagogues, and mosques. Just as it is for any nonprofit organization. I see no harm in that policy. I do disagree with millionaires being made from any church's funds. And I think Al Sharpton needs to pay up on taxes from money that wasn't made through traditional church services. That was sorta my point: I haven't seen tamaka demanding that churches should pay taxes because our Lord and Saviour said that they should render unto Caesar. [;)] If a law was passed that churches should pay taxes, they would. Personally, i'd be in favor of it. Given that Anton La Vey spent most of his life arguing as much, that makes you a Satanist rather than a Christian. (See how easy it is to pick out one isolated belief, isolate it from everything else, and use it to misrepresent everything else somebody believes?) I don't label myself as anything. And your point (or lack therof) is stupid.

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:29:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV The gay couple was honoring the baker's trade and skills, without concern of his spiritual worthiness, and ready to reward him financially for his efforts. Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." The State holds authority over money, period. Also the State has claimed authority of marriages. Please cite exact scripture forbidding participation in civil events. Because if you don't believe gay marriages are any more Holy than a city counsel meeting, then justify not attending either, according to scripture. The render to Caesar was referring to paying your taxes. Render to God was referring to offering your tithe. The state doesn't hold authority over money except in regards to taxes. I've already provided scripture directly refuting this. But here it is again: Romans 13:1-7 ESV / 288 helpful votes Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience What point are you trying to make? Obey the law? We live in a democratic society where we have a process to question and try to change the law if we want to. Yes, but we also live in the United States, which is made up of 50 States and other territories and such, with different laws in each, with the Constitution providing the foundation and supreme law of the land. This allows States and communities to set their own standards within their boundaries, to the extent that the Constitution is fully upheld. Do you have a horse in this race? You don't seem to have any factual arguments at all. If it truly is a matter of religious belief, then prove it by scripture and stand righteous. Otherwise stfu. :)

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:37:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV The gay couple was honoring the baker's trade and skills, without concern of his spiritual worthiness, and ready to reward him financially for his efforts. Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." The State holds authority over money, period. Also the State has claimed authority of marriages. Please cite exact scripture forbidding participation in civil events. Because if you don't believe gay marriages are any more Holy than a city counsel meeting, then justify not attending either, according to scripture. The render to Caesar was referring to paying your taxes. Render to God was referring to offering your tithe. The state doesn't hold authority over money except in regards to taxes. I've already provided scripture directly refuting this. But here it is again: Romans 13:1-7 ESV / 288 helpful votes Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience What point are you trying to make? Obey the law? We live in a democratic society where we have a process to question and try to change the law if we want to. Yes, but we also live in the United States, which is made up of 50 States and other territories and such, with different laws in each, with the Constitution providing the foundation and supreme law of the land. This allows States and communities to set their own standards within their boundaries, to the extent that the Constitution is fully upheld. Do you have a horse in this race? You don't seem to have any factual arguments at all. If it truly is a matter of religious belief, then prove it by scripture and stand righteous. Otherwise stfu. :) I think you should stfu because you make no sense at all. Factual argument: Homosexuality, among other things, is sexual immorality to any conservative christian church. Being forced to participate in sexual immorality is reprehensible to a conservative christian. It is the moral equivalent of being forced to participate in a crime. If i told you i'm going to go rob someone and you have to drive the getaway car because you drive for a living, would you drive me knowing that you were now involved in a crime?

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:43:52 PM)
This isn't an invitation to an orgy. It's a civil event. Now please, go on about your moral indignation over sexual perversion. Because this is totally christianminglespace.com, right?

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 2:48:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV This isn't an invitation to an orgy. It's a civil event. Now please, go on about your moral indignation over sexual perversion. Because this is totally christianminglespace.com, right? It's a civil event that is morally reprehensible to a christian. And i am just debating a side, not personally arguing my pov.

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