RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple?

RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple?

Yes

60% (12)

40% (8)

Not sure

0% (0)

Total Votes : 20

(last vote on : 9/26/2017 12:06:55 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Wayward5oul -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 3:54:35 PM)
Damn it's good to see you posting again JVOV!

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 3:54:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV If it's about a free lunch, then go to the wedding reception. I wouldn't expect Jews to put Swastikas on anything. Buddhists, Hindus, and Jainists perhaps. Jews should certainly respect the rights of traditional religious imagery of other religions, and understand the usage. then why should it be any different for christains baking cakes or servicing gays for anything but an emergency or something life threatening? I think I missed the day in class where Gays with cake flags slaughtered millions of good Christians. I blame the liberal media.

BamaD -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 3:56:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV If it's about a free lunch, then go to the wedding reception. I wouldn't expect Jews to put Swastikas on anything. Buddhists, Hindus, and Jainists perhaps. Jews should certainly respect the rights of traditional religious imagery of other religions, and understand the usage. You wouldn't expect Jews to put Swastikas on something but Christians should throw their beliefs out the window.

ShadesDecadent -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 3:58:32 PM)
per chance 500 000 atomised filth of Dresden? You do have a point with the towers though have you ever noticed no-one takes you up with that?

Real0ne -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:03:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV The first state to legalize gay marriage, thanks to the judiciary? Irony. well if the US was not an established religion it would never have been outlawed in the first place ever think about that? I don't wholly disagree. The religious beliefs of our lawmakers have colored the laws of the land since the beginning, and I don't think that's been entirely a bad thing, but our Judicial system is in place for balance. Richard Nixon passed one of the absolute best and worst federal laws against child abuse and neglect we've ever had. Because two of his assistants were Christian Scientists, it has exemptions for religious beliefs, and States were required to adopt those exemptions themselves, to receive federal funding. I believe that part of the law is likely unconstitutional, and endangers children because of their parents' supposed religious beliefs. Any belief that undermines the sanctity of life has no place in the modern world. it has nothing to do with how modern you think the world is, and everything to do with your rights. You do not need a statute to get justice for wrongs, in other words you do not need a 'law' what so ever. You can sue without any statute what so ever and there is no difference. The next court uses that decision as precedent and so forth, statutes only give the state the ability to expand their power and preferential even prejudicial treatment on many levels. Back to this gay cake business where does the state have the legitimate authority to say one word about someones religion much less regulate it or undermine the rights to religion using their commercial overlay? I dont recall the constitution making that exception do you?

Real0ne -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:05:47 PM)
I have a lot of points no one takes me up on because they prefer not to get their asses handed to them LOL

bounty44 -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:11:43 PM)
something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji: "Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians" look blinker, no townhall! quote: 1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth. 2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral. 3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others. 4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe. 5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate. 6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses. 7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it. 8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior. 9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us. 10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses: "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14 http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:12:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys? Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such? And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway? They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently are going to violate you believes is hypocritical. Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless. Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time?

bounty44 -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:14:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Bounty, if you're going to use TownHall, maybe try making it relevant. Northern Ireland isn't bound by our Constitution. And an actor's opinion isn't a court decision. Although I will gladly accept the words of Patrick Stewart as law in most cases. im a big fan of Patrick stewart, captain picard and professor X as well. the relevance has to do with stewart's statement about supporting the baker's rights to act according to his religious conscience. essentially, the court's decision is stewart's "opinion."

bounty44 -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:18:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys? Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such? And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway? They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently are going to violate you believes is hypocritical. Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless. Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time? if you do the latter, there are people in the church who would/should understand that position. if you do the former, there are people in the world (as opposed to the church) who SHOULD understand it---but they don't. I might have mentioned this before somewhere here---I used to love the tv show everwood and in one of the better episodes, one of the doctor's young patients got pregnant and wanted an abortion. she was going to travel to a far away city to get it but the doctor, who was a staunch catholic and pro-life, decided since she was his patient, he would do the procedure. if I remember rightly, the episode ends with his walking down the aisle in a church heading towards the confessional.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:22:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji: "Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians" "look blinker, no townhall!" quote: 1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth. 2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral. 3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others. 4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe. 5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate. 6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses. 7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it. 8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior. 9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us. 10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses: "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14 http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians Seriously? Because there are no Christians that are liberals. [8\|]

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:23:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV The first state to legalize gay marriage, thanks to the judiciary? Irony. well if the US was not an established religion it would never have been outlawed in the first place ever think about that? I don't wholly disagree. The religious beliefs of our lawmakers have colored the laws of the land since the beginning, and I don't think that's been entirely a bad thing, but our Judicial system is in place for balance. Richard Nixon passed one of the absolute best and worst federal laws against child abuse and neglect we've ever had. Because two of his assistants were Christian Scientists, it has exemptions for religious beliefs, and States were required to adopt those exemptions themselves, to receive federal funding. I believe that part of the law is likely unconstitutional, and endangers children because of their parents' supposed religious beliefs. Any belief that undermines the sanctity of life has no place in the modern world. it has nothing to do with how modern you think the world is, and everything to do with your rights. You do not need a statute to get justice for wrongs, in other words you do not need a 'law' what so ever. You can sue without any statute what so ever and there is no difference. The next court uses that decision as precedent and so forth, statutes only give the state the ability to expand their power and preferential even prejudicial treatment on many levels. Back to this gay cake business where does the state have the legitimate authority to say one word about someones religion much less regulate it or undermine the rights to religion using their commercial overlay? I dont recall the constitution making that exception do you? There has yet to be any scripture presented to prove a religious belief being violated. Since The New Testament is the Holy Book of the Christian Faith, its beliefs and requirements should be laid out quite clearly where this matter is concerned. And I believe it is. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Real0ne -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:24:52 PM)
So should gay bakers be forced to bake a cake that says 'Gays are the evil spawn of satan', or cater any party advocating the same?

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:25:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Damn it's good to see you posting again JVOV! Hey! Good to see you too.

Real0ne -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:31:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV The first state to legalize gay marriage, thanks to the judiciary? Irony. well if the US was not an established religion it would never have been outlawed in the first place ever think about that? I don't wholly disagree. The religious beliefs of our lawmakers have colored the laws of the land since the beginning, and I don't think that's been entirely a bad thing, but our Judicial system is in place for balance. Richard Nixon passed one of the absolute best and worst federal laws against child abuse and neglect we've ever had. Because two of his assistants were Christian Scientists, it has exemptions for religious beliefs, and States were required to adopt those exemptions themselves, to receive federal funding. I believe that part of the law is likely unconstitutional, and endangers children because of their parents' supposed religious beliefs. Any belief that undermines the sanctity of life has no place in the modern world. it has nothing to do with how modern you think the world is, and everything to do with your rights. You do not need a statute to get justice for wrongs, in other words you do not need a 'law' what so ever. You can sue without any statute what so ever and there is no difference. The next court uses that decision as precedent and so forth, statutes only give the state the ability to expand their power and preferential even prejudicial treatment on many levels. Back to this gay cake business where does the state have the legitimate authority to say one word about someones religion much less regulate it or undermine the rights to religion using their commercial overlay? I dont recall the constitution making that exception do you? There has yet to be any scripture presented to prove a religious belief being violated. Since The New Testament is the Holy Book of the Christian Faith, its beliefs and requirements should be laid out quite clearly where this matter is concerned. And I believe it is. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. So then as far as you are concerned religion does not exist outside what is said in the bible?

BamaD -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:33:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys? Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such? And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway? They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently are going to violate you believes is hypocritical. Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless. Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time? So unlike other people (nobody complain when Moslem refuse to do a gay wedding) Christians should not only violate their beliefs but should do so cheerfully. The point is that any law that demands the violate their beliefs is wrong.

tamaka -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:34:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV The first state to legalize gay marriage, thanks to the judiciary? Irony. well if the US was not an established religion it would never have been outlawed in the first place ever think about that? I don't wholly disagree. The religious beliefs of our lawmakers have colored the laws of the land since the beginning, and I don't think that's been entirely a bad thing, but our Judicial system is in place for balance. Richard Nixon passed one of the absolute best and worst federal laws against child abuse and neglect we've ever had. Because two of his assistants were Christian Scientists, it has exemptions for religious beliefs, and States were required to adopt those exemptions themselves, to receive federal funding. I believe that part of the law is likely unconstitutional, and endangers children because of their parents' supposed religious beliefs. Any belief that undermines the sanctity of life has no place in the modern world. So you are against abortion then.

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:38:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So should gay bakers be forced to bake a cake that says 'Gays are the evil spawn of satan', or cater any party advocating the same? Writing is totally different than baking & applying the icing. Something like that can be done with a $2 bottle of frosting. So no, it's offensive, and invokes Satan. And most bakeries would flat out refuse any such thing. I'm not saying that there isn't a step in the process of preparing the cake that may have been over the limits. But that step could have been left undone. And since we've had this thread before, I can cite the same example I did so long ago. A bakery may not have a suitable cake topper for a same-sex wedding cake. I don't believe they should be forced to. The couple can order it online and put it on at the reception. But there is no religious significance given to cake in the Bible.

WhoreMods -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:39:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 something extra to tack onto your thoughts nnanji: "Ten Reasons Why Liberals Hate Christians" "look blinker, no townhall!" quote: 1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth. 2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral. 3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others. 4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe. 5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate. 6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses. 7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it. 8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior. 9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us. 10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel. Consider the following bible verses: "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14 http://www.worldviewweekend.com/news/article/ten-reasons-why-liberals-hate-christians Seriously? Because there are no Christians that are liberals. [8\|] Quite. Just look at Jimmy Carter, who's obviously and clearly an atheist.

JVoV -> RE: Cake Is His Art. So Can He Deny One to a Gay Couple? (9/17/2017 4:41:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV What is the religious penalty of taking part in such an event? A Lord's Prayer? Lighting a candle? Eighteen Hail Marys? Would refusing to bake the cake not also have risks of violating Christian beliefs, as well as State law? "Love thy neighbor" and such? And if there is no right answer, aren't Christians taught to pray for forgiveness on a daily basis anyway? They are also taught not to think that asking forgiveness when you deliberately decide to consistently are going to violate you believes is hypocritical. Yet so many decisions create no-win situations. Pray for guidance, do the best you can, and then pray for forgiveness regardless. Do you refuse to bake the cake because it's your place as a Christian to judge sexual immorality, or do you bake it joyfully, in the spirit of 'loving thy neighbor', with the faith that God will judge us all when it's time? So unlike other people (nobody complain when Moslem refuse to do a gay wedding) Christians should not only violate their beliefs but should do so cheerfully. The point is that any law that demands the violate their beliefs is wrong. If you can't prove a belief with the holiest book of your faith, then I don't see how you can show your religious beliefs have been violated in any way.

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