RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 3:50:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Why not both?... did you check out the link... it is very enlightening. ps... less attention is a lot different than no attention. Butch You constantly misrepresent the gun problem.

kdsub -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 3:54:40 PM)
Did you read the link?... simple question... facts and the truth do not misrepresent anything... You just choose to close your ears and eyes to the children screaming and dying from gun wounds... either on purpose or by accident... why... so you can play big man with your killing toys.

JVoV -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 4:16:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Opioids are killing a lot more people then guns. Oh that makes a lot of sense...so because drugs are killing people its ok to kill them with guns too... I mean does THIS make any difference to you? Butch Don't you thinkthe greatest threat deserves the most attention? In this case, I'm actually going to say no. Patients that are prescribed opiates have very few options for pain relief, and in many cases will be on medication for the rest of their lives. How do you fix that? Even medical marijuana isn't a complete replacement for opiates, although it can provide relief for certain levels of pain. Yet, that conversation is already happening in State referendums, and on a national level. The gun conversation happens here, but not where it matters. But what gun control laws can honor the Second Amendment, and yet still be effective, given the modern Supreme Court interpretation of the Second? Is any gun law even Constitutional, without being an Amendment? Is there overwhelming public support for any of it?

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 4:28:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Opioids are killing a lot more people then guns. Oh that makes a lot of sense...so because drugs are killing people its ok to kill them with guns too... I mean does THIS make any difference to you? Butch Don't you thinkthe greatest threat deserves the most attention? In this case, I'm actually going to say no. Patients that are prescribed opiates have very few options for pain relief, and in many cases will be on medication for the rest of their lives. How do you fix that? Even medical marijuana isn't a complete replacement for opiates, although it can provide relief for certain levels of pain. Yet, that conversation is already happening in State referendums, and on a national level. The gun conversation happens here, but not where it matters. But what gun control laws can honor the Second Amendment, and yet still be effective, given the modern Supreme Court interpretation of the Second? Is any gun law even Constitutional, without being an Amendment? Is there overwhelming public support for any of it? According to most recent polls (and contrary to what we hear on here) I rollback would be more acceptable. Any law which goes after misuse will get far more support than the trickle down criminology. The laws we see are based on the idea the if you stick it to the legitimate owners eventually it may affect the criminals. The first thing that should be done is making it MANDITORY to put the info into the data bases that address the questions.

jlf1961 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 5:23:17 PM)
I just realized something I half expected some others to bring up. First, all things considered, this guy pretty much set himself up to be caught, even with all the cameras he had in place. Consider the DC snipers. They were mobile, and always had a plan to get out. Not this guy, in fact this whole incident is fairly contrary to his past behavior, except when you figure the script for diazepam. There are a whole list of possible side effects, but when you read the warning completely, the longer an individual takes it, the odds of one of the side effects manifesting increase. Its one of the reasons it is no longer considered a long term solution for the problems this guy claimed to have had in a court deposition. I want to see the autopsy report to see if it was in his system at the time he died.

JVoV -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 6:24:36 PM)
Misuse of a deadly weapon often comes with a body count. There has to be a balance.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 7:51:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Misuse of a deadly weapon often comes with a body count. There has to be a balance. Yes, and that price should be paid by the one who misuses it, not the 1000 who don't.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 7:54:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Misuse of a deadly weapon often comes with a body count. There has to be a balance. So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine .

Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 8:14:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine . In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here. We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too. Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 8:23:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine . In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here. We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too. Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns. I am surprised your country doesn't control how many times you can breath.

Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 8:50:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I am surprised your country doesn't control how many times you can breath. I know it's sarcasm, but technically, breathing is healthy :) They do control where you can smoke, so that people can breathe healthy air. I mean my point is, to reduce criminal deaths and keep people safe is not impossible like you guys said. And clearly guns is not the best solution. But just the culture of Americans. As I said, you guys choose danger. Freedom of everything is more important than safety. For us, we feel safety equals freedom. You know, if I have to carry a gun around with me just to feel safe. I don't feel free. I feel frightened and afraid all the time because I live in a world where I might have to one day shoot someone to save my own life. That's horrible.

jlf1961 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 8:55:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here. We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too. Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns. The US bans cars that do not meet standards, or are too powerful for the American idiots with more money than brains.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 8:59:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I am surprised your country doesn't control how many times you can breath. I know it's sarcasm, but technically, breathing is healthy :) They do control where you can smoke, so that people can breathe healthy air. I mean my point is, to reduce criminal deaths and keep people safe is not impossible like you guys said. And clearly guns is not the best solution. But just the culture of Americans. As I said, you guys choose danger. Freedom of everything is more important than safety. For us, we feel safety equals freedom. You know, if I have to carry a gun around with me just to feel safe. I don't feel free. I feel frightened and afraid all the time because I live in a world where I might have to one day shoot someone to save my own life. That's horrible. As with so many anti-gun people you don't understand that being prepared is different from living in fear. Do you have a fire extinguisher ? Does that prove That you live in constant fear of a fire? How can you live like that?

Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 9:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Do you have a fire extinguisher ? Does that prove That you live in constant fear of a fire? How can you live like that? Fire extinguisher is like tap water though. The danger level of having one is no where close to a gun. i mean, if a 3 yr old got hold of a fully loaded mini gun, versus some mini fire extinguisher. Which one would I freak out more? When trying to disarm the 3 yr old? Chances are, the 3 yr old could pull the trigger at me innocently, before I can stop him. Whereas if he sprays fire extinguishing stuffs at me, it's like, okay little boy, give that back to me! Whatever!

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 9:19:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine . In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here. We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too. Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns. Greta I know that for many non-US citizens it's very difficult to understand the American stance in guns. The thing you need to keep in mind is that the US was able to throw off British rule and become an independent nation because the common man in America kept guns. Most of the soldiers in the Continental Army during the American Revolution were using their personal guns. That is why the right to keep weapons was written into our Constitution as the 2nd Amendment a few years after the revolution. Coincidentally, if an American is descended directly from the citizen-soldiers who fought in the American Revolution, they will be more likely to be among the Americans who own guns today. Guns are a tool, but here they are also part of our national identity for many, because it was guns that made this nation. You'll be hard pressed to find a nation anywhere that came into being through overpowered cars or strong drugs, so banning those steps on no ones sense of national identity. Every time you wonder why Americans love their guns, it will help to remember that without guns there would be no America. And we really love our country.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 9:27:58 PM)
Bama, for once I can't agree with you...... ( not that I'm going to agree with greta's line of argument either !!! ) ..................but I don't live in fear, neither does saraah and we rarely bother to lock our doors. That MUST say something. I'm not sure what but we aren't the only ones around here either. I feel this is another of those pointless arguments because each side has it's own point/s of view and will stick with them come hell or high water. Each side thinks the other is being mulish and pig-headed and maybe both sides are right.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 9:31:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 Bama, for once I can't agree with you...... ( not that I'm going to agree with greta's line of argument either !!! ) ..................but I don't live in fear, neither does saraah and we rarely bother to lock our doors. That MUST say something. I'm not sure what but we aren't the only ones around here either. I feel this is another of those pointless arguments because each side has it's own point/s of view and will stick with them come hell or high water. Each side thinks the other is being mulish and pig-headed and maybe both sides are right. And you don't act like I live in fear either. My comment was not directed at people who can see the difference.

Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 9:31:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind Every time you wonder why Americans love their guns, it will help to remember that without guns there would be no America. And we really love our country. Is this part really really really true though? If there were no guns, there would be no America eventually, I mean consider your history? That might still be an America, but perhaps a different America. After all, America is just a country of immigrants coming in and forming their own country. Actually, taking it from the Native Americans, not criticizing. My own country is guilty of same thing. We Chinese folks overtook Singapore from the Natives too. Seems like alot of Natives were just so far behind on modernization that, other nations with more forward thinking could over take them easier. But also Britain being Britain. They would have eventually given up America to Americans without a fight. As they have done so with many other countries, after they realise they don't really want so many responsibilities.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 9:35:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind Every time you wonder why Americans love their guns, it will help to remember that without guns there would be no America. And we really love our country. Is this part really really really true though? If there were no guns, there would be no America eventually? If there were no individual ownership of guns there never would have never been an America. Not eventually NEVER would have would have been.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/9/2017 9:36:09 PM)
I can't speak for what might have happened without guns, but the fact is that it was widespread ownership of guns by citizens here that allowed the US to throw off British rule and become an independent nation.

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