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Nnanji -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/2/2017 8:01:14 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
FR
I've just picked this up. I have, of course, no idea how accurate it is. Maybe one or more of the gunsters here might have an opinion?
"The narrative has been that fully automatic guns have been illegal since 1986 and so gun law changes wouldn't have changed this (I've heard this 20 times today already). If these turn out to be illegal modifications, fine, I get the point. However, if these are Bump Stock or Side Fire or Trigger Crank modifications - all of which are perfectly legal because you still have to pull the trigger (but can pull it 300-700 times a minute because the modification helps you pull the trigger)... I hope we can stop calling these automatic weapons, and stop pretending these have been illegal since 1986. It is legal today to buy a AR style .223 or .308 (confirmed as used in this tragedy) and it is legal to attach a bump stock shown in the video below. Legally, an AR style .223 or .308 with a bump stock is considered a semi automatic rifle. So let's quit acting like this wacko had to be using an illegal automatic weapon. He was more likely using the weapons shown and described below. We are stupid to allow these devices (bump stocks, side fire and trigger cranks). "
Highly unlikely they were bump stock or trigger cranks. Those sorts of things are "toys" you add on to a rifle that makes it able to pull the trigger faster. Those are illegal in my state but legal in some states. I read a couple of days ago about a small firm that designed an electronic glove that helped you pull the trigger about 300 times a minute. The ATF labled the glove an automatic weapon and made it subject to regulation. The whole idea of trigger cranks and other what not is really something equivalent to a video nerd upgrading a light saber with a new crystal. Those things are fun to waste ammunition for about 15 minutes and play at "oh look it's full auto" But they really aren't affective for operating a rifle for any other purpose than making noise.
Automatic rifles are not illegal, they are regulated. The hoops make them of limited value. For instance your "permit" lists where the gun is stored and the police can inspect it at any time. Most gun guys don't want to give the police any extra power to come and inspect their stuff. Ive wasted my share of ammunition on full auto. The first bullet hits what you're aiming at and the follow up rounds climb off the target from recoil. So, basically, you waste everything after the first round on making noise. That's pretty expensive and after a couple of minutes the fun tarnishes. My hunting buddy has spent a lot of time in the American military in combat. He says he never went into combat with his M-4 on burst. If you weren't aiming and shooting the first shot you missed anyway and wasting ammunition in combat is a sin...unless you're a Marine and you're told, shoot it all, we'll bring you more. But, the Marines incorporate suppressive fire into tactics.
What you've posted that you found sounds like a couple of nerds you can find on the internet discussing any topic. You get bump stocks or trigger cranks because you like to pretend some day you'll defend a castle and win a princess. No rifle range in the US will let you use one so unless you have some private place to shoot, you're never going to use it. I allow automatic fire on my property as long as I'm not paying for the ammunition. But, enough is enough and after a few minutes I say okay that's enough.
It's relatively easy to modify an AR style rifle to shoot full auto. The problem is that once you do, it no longer shoots semiauto so the same limitations of where are you going to shoot it apply. You can't take it to a range. I think an AR shootsabout 700 rounds a minute. Granted with only a 30 round magazine that's hampered. So you buy 30 rounds of .223 for $20 or 30 rounds of 7.62 for $30 and the rifle shoots it in under three seconds. Then you have to spend ten minutes picking up the brass. If you really like guns, shooting one bullet at a time is the point unless you just like noise.
Now, for the situation that happened. You've got an overview perch on a packed arena where people are all touching each other close and you don't have to aim, an AR that's been modified to shoot full auto is just as good as a real full auto machine gun. That fish bowl must have been terrifying to be in. He had a lot of rifles. Frankly if you zip off a 30 round magazine on full auto in an AR the barrel will be literally too hot to handle without burning your skin. So you stack up 18 rifles and as you zip off a magazine, you set the rifle down to cool and grab the next and so on down the line.
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