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RE: NYC to Fine Businesses That Don’t Use Correct Gender Pronouns


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RE: NYC to Fine Businesses That Don’t Use Correct Gen... - 10/15/2017 11:16:03 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: NYC to Fine Businesses That Don’t Use Correct Gen... - 10/15/2017 11:29:05 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Yes. That's the case for you and me. But for transgenders there's a lot more at stake than mere pronouns.

When someone repeatedly and gratuitously refers to a TG by an inappropriate pronoun, they are deliberately negating the TG's identity, they are attacking the very core of a TG's person's identity. For many TGs, obtaining acceptance in their chosen gender is a struggle a long difficult and often very painful struggle. When a person deliberately uses inappropriate pronouns they are telling the TG and the world, that in their view, the TG's identity is invalid and arrogantly imposing another unwanted, often hated identity on the TG.

If someone were to repeatedly and deliberately call a straight man gay, it's easy to imagine the reaction of many of the more belligerently straight gay hating types. The deliberate challenge to their identity would taken as a provocative attack on their very core. Many would resort to violence to restore their 'honour'. The very same dynamic applies to interactions with TGs.

It's difficult to understand why some people are so belligerent about their supposed right to deny, invalidate and attack a complete stranger's identity without resorting to bigotry and hatred as the most likely explanation.

I do know this, though I'm glad you took the time to put it on the thread because there are folks who think differently. I really do think we have some people on the forums with the other opinion that will probably never change their position on it. I happen to disagree with them, (aka, think their wrong) which I suppose is fair enough because they think I'm wrong, too. At a certain point, it just becomes a matter of the same comments as there have been over the years and is pretty much a stalemate.

What actually made me comment the way I did was some of the comments on the thread regarding the shooting of the GA Tech student. As you recall, Scout Schultz was inter-sexed. The same comments about not wanting to use Schult's preferred pronouns are the same ones that we hear for not wanting to call trans* persons by theirs. However, a case such as Scout Schultz made those very same arguments fall through. It's proof that there are individuals who are not bianary, being not 100% male, nor 100% female, so pronouns of either he or she would not be entirely correct. Though Schultz had mental health issues (i.e., depression, anxiety) it was not a case of 'a person mentally ill and/or deluded as to being a different gender than gender from birth'. No SRS surgery being a mutilation or that it can be used to correct what is considered a mismatch between body and brain. The chromosome debate gets blown on of the water because it's proof that there are individuals who are not either XX or XY as finite. We do have individuals who are XXY, XYY, and other medically determined variations.

If you recall further, it actually was difficult on that thread to use Schultz's preferred pronouns. Problem being, the use of they/them on a written forum can be somewhat confusing about a discussion where only one person was shot. They/them would have led people to believe the implication of a pronoun which translates to 'more than one'. Correct for the identity of the individual; Incorrect for how many humans involved.

In the USA, any person who has undergone SRS (aka, bottom surgery) has the legal recourse of applying via court to have their gender on their identification documents changed. (Some states vary on the point of whether a person has had SRS or not as a definitive factor.) Basically, by law, a person who has had SRS, has the gender the person has (medically) transitioned TO. Even the state of North Carolina recognizes this in regard to HB2. Unfortunately, it applies to only those who have completed transition, unless the person can get an exemption. Not those who are in the process.



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(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: NYC to Fine Businesses That Don’t Use Correct Gen... - 10/15/2017 11:31:23 AM   
Drakvampire


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http://www.collarchat.com/m_5081938/tm.htm
I have two votes on that one and it truly breaks my heart - the two above me

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 43
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