RE: New GOP Tax Plan

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Awareness -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 7:34:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods If you wanted a compromise, you should have voted for Clinton: she's spent her whole political career refusing to take a stand on anything. I doubt she'd storm away from from the negotiations in a feigned snit then tweet that the other lot were dissing her powers when they didn't beg her to come back and accept her terms afterwards... Hillary was not the candidate that best reflected my beliefs or values. Thus, I could not, in good conscience, vote for her. The only beliefs and values Hillary reflected were "Vote for me!" and "Vagina!". Surprisingly, this was insufficient for the majority of America.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 7:34:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers The facts are that with the tax cuts, federal revenue fell precipitously and drove the treasury right into deficit. Cutting taxes twice, once on 1040 rates and again on corp. taxes and cap gains and financing it with more repub borrowing. The first tax cut the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, was signed into law June 7, 2001. It began to affect revenues almost immediately as "advance rebate" checks were mailed to millions of taxpayers starting that July. After the fiscal year ended Sept. 30, 2001, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office calculated that those rebates had already amounted to $35 billion. As a result, CBO said, federal income tax receipts fell that year, rather than posting an increase. Total federal revenues declined not only in 2001, but also in the following two years, according to CBO historical budget figures. In fiscal 2002, total revenues declined by $138 billion, and in fiscal 2003, they went down for a third year in a row — by nearly $71 billion. Revenues turned up in fiscal 2004, but didn't reach pre-tax-cut levels until fiscal year 2005. HERE Look at the OMB.Gov History charts. I even posted the revenues from 2001-2009 in a post. As a %GDP, they did fall. In terms of dollars, they rose. Immediate effects of a tax break will be to have lower tax revenues. It still takes time for shit to happen. Tax revenues dropped, not simply because of tax cuts, but because we were in a recession from the dotcom bubble bursting and from the effects of 9/11. How disingenuous of you to not mention that part.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 7:39:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods If you wanted a compromise, you should have voted for Clinton: she's spent her whole political career refusing to take a stand on anything. I doubt she'd storm away from from the negotiations in a feigned snit then tweet that the other lot were dissing her powers when they didn't beg her to come back and accept her terms afterwards... Hillary was not the candidate that best reflected my beliefs or values. Thus, I could not, in good conscience, vote for her. The only beliefs and values Hillary reflected were "Vote for me!" and "Vagina!". Surprisingly, this was insufficient for the majority of America. You can toss rhetoric around all you want. You know what you posted is bullshit. Your response is part of the problem with political discussions in the US. Hillary does have beliefs and values. They do not match mine as well as Gary Johnson's did, so he got my vote.

Awareness -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 7:42:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Hillary does have beliefs and values. Really? Name them.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 8:02:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Hillary does have beliefs and values. Really? Name them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016#Platform

MrRodgers -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 8:02:35 PM)
As for the GOP tax plan.....? The richest 0.1 percent (that's one tenth of 1 percent) of Americans will get an average $278,370 reduction in their tax bill by 2027, while the poorest two-fifths (40%) of the country get around $25. The Republican tax plan would shift more of the tax burden onto those who can least afford to shoulder it and relieve those who are already starving the government of tax revenue. The Paradise Papers shine yet another spotlight on how the rich and powerful game the system to avoid paying what they would otherwise owe. The rest of us suffer for it. Why hand them even more favors? The House plan shifts the country to a territorial tax system, in which companies would owe taxes only on money they make here. Money generated abroad in foreign subsidiaries would be subject to the taxes of that country, so they’d have even more incentive to keep it in the low-tax places the Paradise Papers show they’ve already been using. None of these provisions go after wealthy individuals who keep their money in offshore accounts to avoid paying taxes. Instead, the House package hands these same people a variety of giveaways: an enormous loophole via a lower tax rate on pass-through businesses; the elimination of the alternative minimum tax that ensures they have to pay at least something; and the eradication of the tax on the wealthiest estates. HERE

MrRodgers -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 8:27:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers The facts are that with the tax cuts, federal revenue fell precipitously and drove the treasury right into deficit. Cutting taxes twice, once on 1040 rates and again on corp. taxes and cap gains and financing it with more repub borrowing. The first tax cut the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, was signed into law June 7, 2001. It began to affect revenues almost immediately as "advance rebate" checks were mailed to millions of taxpayers starting that July. After the fiscal year ended Sept. 30, 2001, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office calculated that those rebates had already amounted to $35 billion. As a result, CBO said, federal income tax receipts fell that year, rather than posting an increase. Total federal revenues declined not only in 2001, but also in the following two years, according to CBO historical budget figures. In fiscal 2002, total revenues declined by $138 billion, and in fiscal 2003, they went down for a third year in a row — by nearly $71 billion. Revenues turned up in fiscal 2004, but didn't reach pre-tax-cut levels until fiscal year 2005. HERE Look at the OMB.Gov History charts. I even posted the revenues from 2001-2009 in a post. As a %GDP, they did fall. In terms of dollars, they rose. Immediate effects of a tax break will be to have lower tax revenues. It still takes time for shit to happen. Tax revenues dropped, not simply because of tax cuts, but because we were in a recession from the dotcom bubble bursting and from the effects of 9/11. How disingenuous of you to not mention that part. All dis-ingenuousness aside, It is precisely because we still had a projected surplus and were headed into recession, that we are told, to vote for R's and conservatives to do what ? Be conservative...do nothing. Do not in any case cut taxes and borrow to cover their ass. There was simply no feasible rationale for W's 01 ond 03 tax cuts and by then financing two wars and in addition to entering a new war on terror. Funny how Clinton who also inherited a recession, raised taxes, created an operating surplus (enough to retire billion$ in US debt) created 20 million jobs and we are still to believe this repub mathematically grotesque rhetoric again on the pros and cons of tax cuts ?

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 9:04:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers All dis-ingenuousness aside, It is precisely because we still had a projected surplus and were headed into recession, that we are told, to vote for R's and conservatives to do what ? Be conservative...do nothing. Do not in any case cut taxes and borrow to cover their ass. There was simply no feasible rationale for W's 01 ond 03 tax cuts and by then financing two wars and in addition to entering a new war on terror. When did the tax cuts start? 2001, right? When did the "two wars" start? Oh, yeah, after that. The first of 2 tax cuts was in response to the economic doldrums following the dotcom bubble burst. The economy got a second gutpunch on 9/11 which was also after the initial phases of the 2001 tax cuts. The cuts in 2003 were set in place because the economy still wasn't picking up well. Yes, the Bush Administration saw an incredible increase in spending (175% or so compared to Clinton's final annual outlay), and he should be roundly criticized for that. The numbers aren't tough to find. Revenues under Bush eventually hit yearly records. Cliinton's Receipts: (1993-2000) = $12.37T (1994-2001) = $13.21T Bush's Receipts: (2001-2008) = $17.16T (2002-2009) = $17.27T You choose which 8-year period you'd like to compare. If the Bush tax cuts were so horrendous, why were they continued after Congress went to the Democrats, especially after Obama was sworn in? quote: Funny how Clinton who also inherited a recession, raised taxes, created an operating surplus (enough to retire billion$ in US debt) created 20 million jobs and we are still to believe this repub mathematically grotesque rhetoric again on the pros and cons of tax cuts ? What happened to "all dis-ingenuousness aside?" You're comparing the S&L crisis to the dotcom bubble burst?!? LMMFAO!!! Can you possibly get more partisan? Oh, yes, you can. Obviously, raising taxes led to the huge expansion due to the internet being used by businesses. OMG, you're such a partisan hack, I can't even believe I'm wasting my time arguing with you.

MrRodgers -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/13/2017 9:43:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers All dis-ingenuousness aside, It is precisely because we still had a projected surplus and were headed into recession, that we are told, to vote for R's and conservatives to do what ? Be conservative...do nothing. Do not in any case cut taxes and borrow to cover their ass. There was simply no feasible rationale for W's 01 ond 03 tax cuts and by then financing two wars and in addition to entering a new war on terror. When did the tax cuts start? 2001, right? When did the "two wars" start? Oh, yeah, after that. The first of 2 tax cuts was in response to the economic doldrums following the dotcom bubble burst. The economy got a second gutpunch on 9/11 which was also after the initial phases of the 2001 tax cuts. The cuts in 2003 were set in place because the economy still wasn't picking up well. Yes, the Bush Administration saw an incredible increase in spending (175% or so compared to Clinton's final annual outlay), and he should be roundly criticized for that. The numbers aren't tough to find. Revenues under Bush eventually hit yearly records. Cliinton's Receipts: (1993-2000) = $12.37T (1994-2001) = $13.21T Bush's Receipts: (2001-2008) = $17.16T (2002-2009) = $17.27T You choose which 8-year period you'd like to compare. If the Bush tax cuts were so horrendous, why were they continued after Congress went to the Democrats, especially after Obama was sworn in? quote: Funny how Clinton who also inherited a recession, raised taxes, created an operating surplus (enough to retire billion$ in US debt) created 20 million jobs and we are still to believe this repub mathematically grotesque rhetoric again on the pros and cons of tax cuts ? What happened to "all dis-ingenuousness aside?" You're comparing the S&L crisis to the dotcom bubble burst?!? LMMFAO!!! Can you possibly get more partisan? Oh, yes, you can. Obviously, raising taxes led to the huge expansion due to the internet being used by businesses. OMG, you're such a partisan hack, I can't even believe I'm wasting my time arguing with you. This is a change in your replies DS. I have history and the facts behind me, therefore I am not being partisan at all and simply wonder where all of this fiscal conservatism is. Debt in 2001 $5.6 trillion. Debt on 2008 $13 trillion. No tax cuts ever increases revenue unless you lower cap gains which Bush did and as I've stated before, results in a short term windfall on those gains, now realized because of the discount. Those mere billion$ in that 'windfall' put no dent into the trillion$ of borrowing. Even in a lecture delivered by a writer for National Review, asked how is it that people should vote for repubs because they were small govt., fiscally sound ? When in the last 40 or more years have these people when in power, ever shown us that they are small govt., fiscal conservatives ? They haven't and still aren't.

WhoreMods -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 4:35:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president". Actually, the problem is that biovating scrotum in the white house decided how to be president before he was sworn in, and has spent the last year throwing tantrums because his take on that just doesn't work, but he's not going to change it because the world is wrong and he's right. Just the sort of person you want running the country... Name me ONE President who knew how to run the show.....before they got in. Name me ONE President who figured it out...in the first two years. Pick ONE man (they've all been men) who knew the game....before they grabbed the keys. (And by the way...name one of YOU who could do better). Bush prime hit the ground running. Or does he not count because he'd spent eight years as a VP doing all of the president's job apart from the PR stuff?

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 5:16:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers This is a change in your replies DS. I have history and the facts behind me, therefore I am not being partisan at all and simply wonder where all of this fiscal conservatism is. Debt in 2001 $5.6 trillion. Debt on 2008 $13 trillion. No tax cuts ever increases revenue unless you lower cap gains which Bush did and as I've stated before, results in a short term windfall on those gains, now realized because of the discount. Those mere billion$ in that 'windfall' put no dent into the trillion$ of borrowing. Even in a lecture delivered by a writer for National Review, asked how is it that people should vote for repubs because they were small govt., fiscally sound ? When in the last 40 or more years have these people when in power, ever shown us that they are small govt., fiscal conservatives ? They haven't and still aren't. Are you saying the OMB.gov History Budget spreadsheet isn't facts? Your response to the increase in revenues is to point out that the budget deficit increased. I acknowledged that spending saw and "incredible increase," which helps explain why the deficit went up even though revenues went up. If you're going to pivot to deflect from the actual discussion, I'd rather know now so I can just ignore your responses.

Awareness -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 6:31:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Hillary does have beliefs and values. Really? Name them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016#Platform A platform is not a set of beliefs and values. Try again. Five bucks says you can't. Because as a candidate, Clinton has never expressed a set of beliefs, philosophies or underlying morality. Go on, give it a go.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 6:46:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Hillary does have beliefs and values. Really? Name them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016#Platform A platform is not a set of beliefs and values. Try again. Five bucks says you can't. Because as a candidate, Clinton has never expressed a set of beliefs, philosophies or underlying morality. Go on, give it a go. Her platform is her set of political beliefs and values. Like I said, your response is part of the problem with political discussions in the US. Best of luck to you.

Awareness -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 6:53:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Hillary does have beliefs and values. Really? Name them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016#Platform A platform is not a set of beliefs and values. Try again. Five bucks says you can't. Because as a candidate, Clinton has never expressed a set of beliefs, philosophies or underlying morality. Go on, give it a go. Her platform is her set of political beliefs and values. Like I said, your response is part of the problem with political discussions in the US. Best of luck to you. Honestly, watching an idiot trying to lecture me on political discussion is like watching a finger painting child trying to comment on quantum physics. Beliefs and values are not a political platform. They are the underlying rationale and motivators for actions. Clinton's actions betray a pattern of contempt for the American people, a willingness to sacrifice integrity for opportunism and a level of corruption that is simply appalling in a potential presidential candidate. Her personal brand is so toxic, she made Donald Trump look like a reasonable alternative to large numbers of people. Honestly, watching your inadequate mind trying to process these things is boring beyond belief. Fuck, now I remember why I don't bother here very much. The level of discourse is so fucking infantile.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 7:02:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Honestly, watching an idiot trying to lecture me on political discussion is like watching a finger painting child trying to comment on quantum physics. Beliefs and values are not a political platform. They are the underlying rationale and motivators for actions. Clinton's actions betray a pattern of contempt for the American people, a willingness to sacrifice integrity for opportunism and a level of corruption that is simply appalling in a potential presidential candidate. Her personal brand is so toxic, she made Donald Trump look like a reasonable alternative to large numbers of people. Honestly, watching your inadequate mind trying to process these things is boring beyond belief. Fuck, now I remember why I don't bother here very much. The level of discourse is so fucking infantile. Nothing but egotistical personal attacks. What great strategy for actual discussion! Thanks for identifying your M.O. Best of luck to you.

Awareness -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 8:06:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Honestly, watching an idiot trying to lecture me on political discussion is like watching a finger painting child trying to comment on quantum physics. Beliefs and values are not a political platform. They are the underlying rationale and motivators for actions. Clinton's actions betray a pattern of contempt for the American people, a willingness to sacrifice integrity for opportunism and a level of corruption that is simply appalling in a potential presidential candidate. Her personal brand is so toxic, she made Donald Trump look like a reasonable alternative to large numbers of people. Honestly, watching your inadequate mind trying to process these things is boring beyond belief. Fuck, now I remember why I don't bother here very much. The level of discourse is so fucking infantile. Nothing but egotistical personal attacks. What great strategy for actual discussion! Thanks for identifying your M.O. Best of luck to you. Oh dear Lord, you mean "exhibit" my modus operandi, not identify. This is what I mean. Words actually mean things, people! Sentences need to be put together properly! You can't just string words together and insist people should "know what I mean". Honestly, I try and educate you and in the face of a superior argument, you run away. Bloody ungrateful fucking prole.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 8:29:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Oh dear Lord, you mean "exhibit" my modus operandi, not identify. This is what I mean. Words actually mean things, people! Sentences need to be put together properly! You can't just string words together and insist people should "know what I mean". Honestly, I try and educate you and in the face of a superior argument, you run away. Bloody ungrateful fucking prole. Aw, shucks. I used the wrong word. Please forgive me, oh, lexicon-master. [8\|] I'm not running away. I'm accepting the fact that some people/posts just aren't worth responding to. Best of luck to you.

bounty44 -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 8:36:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri ...some people/posts just aren't worth responding to. ive had the same experience with him. its unfortunate, because he's clearly smart, but his manic, mean-spiritedness makes him insufferable.

Awareness -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 8:44:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Oh dear Lord, you mean "exhibit" my modus operandi, not identify. This is what I mean. Words actually mean things, people! Sentences need to be put together properly! You can't just string words together and insist people should "know what I mean". Honestly, I try and educate you and in the face of a superior argument, you run away. Bloody ungrateful fucking prole. Aw, shucks. I used the wrong word. Please forgive me, oh, lexicon-master. [8\|] I'm not running away. I'm accepting the fact that some people/posts just aren't worth responding to. Best of luck to you. Funny how all the posts you don't want to respond to tend to made by those same people who hand you your ass. Perhaps if you could argue a bit better you'd be just a little braver.

Awareness -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/14/2017 8:45:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri ...some people/posts just aren't worth responding to. ive had the same experience with him. its unfortunate, because he's clearly smart, but his manic, mean-spiritedness makes him insufferable. Yes, it's terrible that I bring mean-spiritedness into a forum whose only values are brotherhood and love. I really am an anomaly in this place of virtue and enlightenment. Wait.... what?

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