RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/6/2017 7:46:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Dance some more...lol... you are not very good at it. The french revolution had nothing to do with Muslim terrorists... but both 9/11 and the recent attacks in France are related... by the way... you do know that violent crime as been increasing in the US over the last few years... right?

I wonder if you were to see the 17 month old baby with bullet holes in its head would you think differently about the availability of the AR-15 type weapons?

Butch

No it hasn't just at the end with Obama telling criminals they were the victims.



kdsub -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/6/2017 7:47:48 PM)

Well... I know 526 people in the last few months...some of which can only talk from the grave that would not agree with you.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/6/2017 8:02:26 PM)

Here is a good site to look at and get sick. If you go into the specifics of this crime ... take the time to read the names and ages... then be so smug about gun control.

Butch



JVoV -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/6/2017 8:21:33 PM)

I just read that the Air Force apparently failed to enter the shooter's court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge into the background check database.

What the fuck good do laws do if government entities don't take the time to follow them?



Greta75 -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/6/2017 8:56:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I just read that the Air Force apparently failed to enter the shooter's court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge into the background check database.

What the fuck good do laws do if government entities don't take the time to follow them?


Well this guy had mental problems and was taking medication since high school apparently. So before the Air Force even took him in, they didn't vet him properly already.

Still, it's amazing he managed to land 2 wives. And a second wife immediately after prison who seem to actually love him and is possessive about him.

The people at his security work place says he is a super nice person, which was the last job he held before this killing.

I think maybe he had split personality.



jlf1961 -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/6/2017 9:14:14 PM)

You want to blame guns?

The most horrific mass killings in the US did not involve guns, they involved Ammonia Nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil.

quote:

You can't handle the truth. Because the truth is, I blew up the Murrah building and isn't it kind of scary that one man could reap this kind of hell?
Timothy McVeigh


By all means blame guns, blame gun owners, blame the constitution, but the simple, undeniable truth is that if some one wants to kill a lot of people, they will find a way to do it, and the internet is a wealth of knowledge on the best techniques.

Google Bath school bombing, then the death toll from the Murrah building, of course considering the damage from the first attempt to bring down the World Trade Center, it is a wonder on 6 died.

In this case it did not help that the US Air Force did not report the court martial or the dishonorable discharge to the National Crime Data base, because the dishonorable discharge should have kept a gun out of his hands.

Nor did they report his conviction for domestic violence, even a misdemeanor conviction would have kept a gun out of his hands.

But yeah, blame guns and gun owners.



DaddySatyr -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/6/2017 9:34:32 PM)


[image]http://www.collarspace.com/photos/264057p06.jpg[/image]



Lucylastic -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 1:09:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You want to blame guns?


WHO are you talking to?
What is the difference between say Canada, UK, France, Germany and the US regarding murder rates?
Now the difference between them and gun deaths

You can try to squirrel out of it, but the fact is that guns in the hands of killers are EXACTLY the problem.
so no its not blaming guns, its blaming the nutballs that have guns handily available.

Does that mean that americans simply have more people that want to kill people ?
or that the rest of the civilised world is sane?


You want to bring up mcveigh as proof its guns arent as deadly as explosives? wow what a concept. who knew.
Now the fact that the airforce forgot to input his conviction, isnt an excuse, it shows how badly current laws need to be beefed up. that in itself is a excellent reason to tighten rules...until people are properly checked, and info complete.

OOpsie, 26 people died, he got a gun. in fact it seems he has been buying them in the past 4 years (before his conviction anyway)

400-450 rounds, it tells me he wouldnt have had that chance, had it not been a AR type rifle. lets give everyone a level playing field and make sure everyone has one. OR enforce the fucking laws that arent working.

Trump removed the rules on mental health, that will really help.

Its simply a mental health problem?, no it isnt... Millions and millions of people around the world have mental health issues, mental healthcare being readily available to everyone would be good, but it isnt, really, in ANY country (maybe one of the scandinavian countries, but certainly not in the UK, US, Canada, South America, etc)
Across the world crime is a problem, murder is a problem, but gun deaths? not in the same numbers as the US.
what is the major cause of gun deaths?
killers with guns.
Mostly men too.

Now that brave chap who had a gun in his vehicle is a hero, yes, I cant fault him or his bravery and courage, Im glad he managed to hit the guy, and the two guys who chased him off. I take my hat off to them.

As Im so often told I dont have the right to vote to change anything. Right now, I wish I could send the victims and their families more than my condolences. Prayers and thoughts dont stop the slaughter.




PeonForHer -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 2:24:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Right, so how long till the next mass-slaughter, then? A month, two weeks? Get ready with those thoughts and prayers, folks!


What a callous, and horrifically insensitive remark.


True - it was harsh. Apologies to all.

Yet, I've begun to see growing cynicism amongst even Americans themselves about these mass-slaughters: there's a widespread expression of grief ... followed by no real policy changes whatsoever, least of all the radical policy change that I think it's becoming clear is now needed. At the same time the slaughters are happening with increasing frequency. I fundamentally disagree with the line that the immediate aftermath of a mass-killing is 'not the time for politics'. It's *absolutely* the time for politics: that's what politics is there for - to provide solutions.



bounty44 -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 6:51:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Same tired arguments and the killing goes on. You are as much to blame as the insane killers themselves.




Another militant atheist, just like these guys:

[image]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QytJ9bf8r58/WflUFBvswhI/AAAAAAAAEoM/xiVmhToqLgE1RpQ9qZAINZIhfixdASZMACLcBGAs/s1600/praised%2Bkillers%2Bcommie.jpg[/image]

Get back to us when you really care about mass shootings and not just taking away the people's means of defending themselves


outside the immediate scope of the thread, but I saw bosco's photo, and stumbled across a townhall article (OH NO COMRADES!) that touched on it:

"Wow: 20 Percent of Millennials Consider Stalin, Kim Jong Un 'Heroes'"

quote:

A concerning number of Millennials have favorable opinions of socialism and communism, with one in five saying they consider mass murderers Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un “heroes,” according to a recent poll.

Shockingly, 44 percent of millennials say they wished they lived in a socialist country rather than a capitalist one, and 7 percent preferred to live in a communist country, the survey conducted by Victims of Communism Memorial Fund-YouGov found.

“One in five (23%) of Americans age 21-29 consider Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin a ‘hero’; 26% for Vladimir Lenin; 23% for Kim Jong Un,” the survey’s write-up states.

Millennials also named Karl Marx (18 percent), Che Guevara (26 percent), Vladimir Lenin (17 percent), Mao Zedong (16 percent), and Nicolas Maduro (12 percent) as a personal hero, hero for their country, or hero to the world.

“Millennials are increasingly turning away from capitalism and toward socialism and even communism as a viable alternative,” said Marion Smith, Victims of Communism’s executive director, in a press release. “This troubling turn highlights widespread historical illiteracy in American society regarding socialism and the systemic failure of our education system to teach students about the genocide, destruction, and misery caused by communism since the Bolshevik Revolution one hundred years ago.”

Importantly, however, a majority of the millennial respondents couldn’t define socialism communism, while four-fifths were unaware of how many lives were lost under communist regimes.

“Communism isn’t back: It never left,” the statement said. “We simply forgot about it. And as it rears its ugly head once more, openly and shamelessly, we seem far less prepared to meet the challenge in this century as we did in the last.”


and some of you wonder why some of us consider you the enemy?

www.holywaterforvampires.com




JVoV -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 7:11:14 AM)

Yeah. And the Civil War happened because people just couldn't compromise. Too damn stubborn.



jlf1961 -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 7:51:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You want to blame guns?


WHO are you talking to?
What is the difference between say Canada, UK, France, Germany and the US regarding murder rates?
Now the difference between them and gun deaths

You can try to squirrel out of it, but the fact is that guns in the hands of killers are EXACTLY the problem.
so no its not blaming guns, its blaming the nutballs that have guns handily available.


Across the world crime is a problem, murder is a problem, but gun deaths? not in the same numbers as the US.




So, once more your statement is blaming everyone that has a gun for the problem, not just the less than one percent of gun owners that decide for whatever reason to go out and kill someone?

And yes, comparing a mass shooter to McVeigh is appropriate, considering that many of you seem to think that owning a gun means that the owner is intending to go out and kill someone, without realizing that if someone wants to kill a lot of people, they will do so with or without a gun.

But since you want to compare the US to the rest of the world, it is also necessary that you are not actually comparing the US to the rest of the world, just first world countries, because, there is statistical proof that the US is 31st in the number of gun deaths world wide. source

So, what does that do to your argument? It proves one thing, you are not comparing the US to the rest of the world, but a selected group of countries.

Of course, when you look at over all murder rates, the US is not even in the top ten, but again, you are comparing the US to just a small group of selected countries, specifically Western Europe, Canada and Australia.

Neglecting of course the former Russia and former soviet republics (all of which have some very strict gun control laws) and much higher murder rates overall.

Nor do any of you actually admit that, even with the mass killings taken into the count, gun deaths in the US is at the lowest point in 20 years, so we must be doing something right.

No the real issue is not that the United States has legal and nominally restricted private gun ownership, the real issue is that the US is not doing it the way a select group of countries have done it.

Nor does the fact seem to matter that in this particular case, the shooter used a weapon that is not sold at the standard firearms retailer, he used a weapon that is specifically marketed to law enforcement. Seriously, you cant go to Walmart or some other place and buy that weapon.

Of course, as I said earlier, there is the question as to why the US Air Force did not report his court martial conviction and crime nor his dishonorable discharge to the proper agency which would have kept him from buying a gun in the first place.

A problem I have been ranting about in every debate on the issue.

And of course, you will once more make the claim I am attributing statements to you that you did not make, which is why I highlighted the specific part. If you do not mean all gun owners, just the less than one percent who do stuff like this, then do not make broad general statements, and please, get your facts straight.



Greta75 -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 7:51:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
Shockingly, 44 percent of millennials say they wished they lived in a socialist country rather than a capitalist one, and 7 percent preferred to live in a communist country, the survey conducted by Victims of Communism Memorial Fund-YouGov found.

Kids in my country think Europe/Australia is some kind of Utopian Haven where they don't have to work and everything free. They have the impression that education, healthcare, everything is free. And as long as they stay jobless, the government pays them enough for living expenses that they don't need to work for the rest of their life and can just stay home and game all day and get paid by the government for it. Some of them idolise that lifestyle. They also think that they have no need to save for their retirement in those countries as the government takes care of their retirement in those countries.

And they feel like, oh, the kids are so lucky to be born there, unlike in Singapore where nothing is free, and no money, means you will die. And if you don't save enough when you are old, you are screwed.

But I always tell those kids. If you think it's such a paradise in those countries. Don't "Wish", just migrate there! Good riddance! And Enjoy!

I think it would be hilarious, it would be nice for some of them to actually take solid action to do a migration and then see for themselves if it's like that.

And I would say the same thing to American kids. Don't "wish", just migrate to one of those socialist or communism countries they idolise so much!

I mean it's so stupid to be even "wishing". It's a global universe now. You can live in any country you want. Whether are you capable of surviving in a different country, that's all.



Lucylastic -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 7:58:22 AM)

jeff not all gun owners are nutballs, so suck it.



kdsub -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 8:15:59 AM)

Lucy the time will come when the Democrats are back in control of Congress and the presidency. I keep telling our Republican friends that they are making a mistake in blocking reasonable gun laws now. When that time comes there will be a strong crackdown on gun owners that would not happen if they were reasonable today. In the past Democratic controlled congresses have not pursued strict gun control despite the NRA scare tactics. That will not be the case when they regain power as the country is sick of children dying at the hands of gun weilding mental cases.

It is a tragedy that until the change in leadership comes many more will needlessly die.

Butch



BoscoX -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 8:30:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Yeah. And the Civil War happened because people just couldn't compromise. Too damn stubborn.


So... You want half the black people to be slaves.

Interesting.



DaddySatyr -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 8:34:11 AM)


March 2009 - A 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.

March 2009 - A heavily-armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

March 2009 - Six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

April 2009 – An 18-year-old former student followed a pizza deliveryman into his old dormitory, and shot the deliveryman, a dorm monitor, and himself at Hampton University, Virginia.

April 2009 - A man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.

November 2009 - US army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

February 2010 – A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding three others

Obama and his lot, when the DEMS had control of both houses and the white house. Let's not get started on the weekly - almost daily - shooting violence just in our major cities.

Yeah, they did a fine job.





kdsub -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 8:49:43 AM)

I agree they did nothing...at the time gun control was not politically expedient ... times have changed.

Butch



Lucylastic -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 8:51:27 AM)

https://www.cato.org/blog/round-president-obamas-gun-control-proposals
You might enjoy this Michael.



jlf1961 -> RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church (11/7/2017 9:01:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

jeff not all gun owners are nutballs, so suck it.



Okay then, you did not qualify that statement, again you used a general term.

I also noticed that you stand by your claim that the US gun deaths lead the world in numbers, again a statement that is not accurate, unless of course you remove every other country except for a specific few, again, proving one thing.

It is the fact the US will not follow what you and other non Americans seem to think is the only workable way to solve the problem.

Which brings us to one specific question, why is your way or England's or Australia's way the ONLY workable solution?

When you admit that you are not comparing the US to the rest of the planet, or that the majority of the countries that have higher gun death rates than the US have far stricter gun laws than those countries you are comparing the US to, then perhaps, some of us might consider your arguments valid. As it stands, your arguments are based on inaccurate statistics and concentrate on the rare occurrence, not the norm for gun related crimes.



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