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Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 12:58:20 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Hello everyone i am new to collarme and have been reading the threads for a few weeks now.  Lots of good people and sound advice given with so many different points of view going around. It gives me a lot to think about at times which is good, i love to always be challenged! 

Here goes my question, although really it's more then simply a question, perhaps it's part rant too.  Please let me know if i go overboard, but understand much of it if born out of frustrations and perhaps misplaced expectations?? You can all decide and let me know. 

A very short background so you know a bit about me. i consider myself a submissive masochist. Definately not a slave.  i was in an M/s relationship for about 5 years and while much of what i experienced was positive, much was not. i do understand the dynamics involved in a D/s relationship,for example, the importance of obedience, trust, honesty, respect, being cautious, getting to know each other, taking things slow, communicating often and openly and generally once you sign up, you accept the terms you sign up for! That all being said, it's been 2 and a half years since i was released and i have been exploring my possibilities through various forums.  i have had exchanges though email with several doms each lasting i would say anywhere between 2 weeks to 3 months.  They generally appear at first to be of good quality and character and the exchanges are positive with a lot of "learning each other".  i make it a point that if  i meet someone and i just know extinctively things are never going to progress for one reason or another, i always tell that person up front because i believe everyone deserves courtesy.  The doms who have felt the same towards me have not afforded me this same courtesy though! 

i don't expect everyone i meet to be a match for me, or even attracted to me, but am i deluding myself to think that a simple - "Look, we've talked a while now and i don't think that we are really right for each other." is in order?? Is this more then a submissive should expect?  (really rhetorical as i think i should have every right to expect it). 

The crux of it comes down to this. After speaking to these doms they generally get more comfortable explaining to me what their "expectations" will be within a relationship, which i think is wonderful, that needs to happen eventually and i welcome it! But when they hit upon requests that are limits for me i tell them i cannot comply with their particular request. This has happened three times and each time there was no discussion, no compromise, nothing but them disappearing without even a goodbye.  You may be thinking "is she denying ordinary requests so these doms just fluff her off as a "player" whose not serious" - i sure hope not and i will let you be the judge of that. Here are 3 requests that i simply could not abide by if i got into a D/s relationship.
No 1 - wanted to cover me in my own shit after i shit in a diaper 
No 2 - wanted to place a device on my eyes to force them open so he could ejaculate into my open eyes
No 3 - wanted me always naked when with him alone which included when i had my period, this meant no panties, no pads, no tampons - i asked how this would work - his reply was i would be allowed to sit on towels but basically left to bleed all over the place.

i take responsibility for no 1 as i never discussed scat as a limit - i simply find it so repulsive that it just never occured to me i had to mention that i did not like it. i know better now. The other two i don't know what to think. i do have an idea of what is happening though and let me know if you are in agreement or not. Many people "claim" to be looking for a meaningful D/s relatiosnhip but all they really want is a sucker to satisfy some particular fetish they want indulged.  i would think anyone looking to connect with another would be more interested in how they felt about the other, the chemisry, the compatibility on a larger scale, then with one particular, quite odd in my estimation (hope i don't sound judgemental here) fetish.  So is this a fetish vs relationship issue?

Isn't it so much easier just to be upfront and honest with others then be like a "wolf in sheeps clothing" and lie and decieve others?   It is getting to the point that when someone makes contact with me, i am not as open with them as i used to be.  i suppose part of it is, why bother they are going to disappear anyway, yet another part of me hopes i have hit upon a person of some quality, character, depth, and value.  The real sad point of this whole thing is that many of the requests (excluding scat sorry but thats a REAL hard limit for me) if the dom had taken the time to get to know me and we formed a bond - he might have gotten me to change my mind.  Is it realistic to lay it all out upfront and expect a sub to agree or not agree immediately? i think this kind of attitude stinks personally. 

i don't think just because one labels themselves "dom" "master" "his royal higness" i don't care what label they give themselves but that doesn't give them the right to exploit, trample, or otherwise disrespect submissives. No 2 btw wanted to know all my deep dark fantasies - after knowing me 1 week?? Whats wrong with that picture?? 

i hope i don't go too sour on my quest but the odds are't looking too good - i really would like to find a genuine person one day to share with.

Hope i made a modicum of sense :-)

velvetears
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 1:03:15 PM   
Morpheus07


Posts: 89
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline 		IMHO, anyone who would make those kind of requests is simply a wanker, wannabee, loser, liar, fake, phony, hng, etc., et all.

I am sorry that any person has to deal with that, but this is the net after all, its so easy to be unreal/untrue. Have patience, and let the weeding begin.



_____________________________

Its a case of mind over matter, "I don't mind, because you don't matter!"

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 1:08:41 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I got some really good advice the other day, from someone whom I consider a caring friend on this site. He told me I am going to have to feel less guilty about just saying (to either someone else, or just reminding myself): "This just isn't right for me," and start to learn to care a whole lot less what some people might think about me just coming out and saying that - when I am facing similar (yet different) circumstances, as you describe. Everyone I've met has basically been wonderful. But, I've received a few wacky e-mails and a few very strange requests (I won't bore ya'll w/the details). If they are waaay out there, I just delete and forget 'em, but I even seem to feel guilty about doing that sometimes. I am currently not seeking a partner (but will be soon).

I also go for days without answering my mail. When people yell at me about this (and some  have), I do understand it, but I have to say I'll admit it's partly laziness, but I have also admittted up front in my profile I do much correspondence on the message boards. I am sure this will change in a few months when I begin seeking a partner. I apologize to anyone this has put off (oops. There I go again).

My friend's advice was pretty good.
OP: Did it occur to you thyat this one guy never stopped to ask what you thought of him spreading your own diapered shit all over yourself? I have to say, no offense to him, but anyone I'd be considering would have been deleted promptly after that request. Don't feel too bad for him - there are hundreds of thousands of members on this site. He'll find someone who will do this for him, probably. If he wants to make you feel guilty about it - ask him (or all of them, who make requests you simply don't "gel" with) this: "Do you really want a partner who just hates all the time, what it is you'd ask of them"? 

Because if they just plain don't care about that, that is a big red flag (again) for you (my opinion) and also maybe something her might want think over in reference to what level of rleationship and true intimacy they are really going after here.
Just my two cents.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/29/2006 1:27:48 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 1:12:27 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I wouldn't neccesarily see someone making those requests as "wankers, losers, wannabees", etc, but they would certainly seem to fall into the fetish chasing category as opposed someone looking for a more rounded relationship, which the OP seems to want.
 
She feels they're rude for cutting off contact once they knew she didn't have an interest in those specific acts; maybe so. I'd look at it as just a quick way of letting the "weeding" begin, as you say, Morpheus.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Morpheus07)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 1:17:28 PM   
Morpheus07


Posts: 89
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I wouldn't neccesarily see someone making those requests as "wankers, losers, wannabees", etc, but they would certainly seem to fall into the fetish chasing category as opposed someone looking for a more rounded relationship, which the OP seems to want.
 
She feels they're rude for cutting off contact once they knew she didn't have an interest in those specific acts; maybe so. I'd look at it as just a quick way of letting the "weeding" begin, as you say, Morpheus.



Yeah, I just wanted to get all the derogatory terms out in one fell swoop! They sound like great wanking fantasies (to those who lean that way.), but who really wants to sit in the emergency room for several hours waiting to get your subs eyes treated because your fantasy has caused temporary blindness...or whatever.


_____________________________

Its a case of mind over matter, "I don't mind, because you don't matter!"

(in reply to Level)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 1:25:13 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Have chatted with a lot of wonderful Doms here and a few not so wonderful.  Dang was even considering a taste of vanilla again just to not get my behind chewed for having wants and desires also and worse yet LIMITS.  I recently agreed to stop seeing Others for further exploration with a special Dom.  The problem i had was that many of those that i had merely said a few words to became extremely upset over my stating i would follow this path.  Mind you i had not committed to anyone and had told All that were interested about the Dom and why i did not think He and i would ever have anything further.  Now He has made an adjustment in His ideas about me and i want to follow that path.  So (that was my rant) i do understand and would like to encourage you to continue seeking and doing what is best for you as a sub.  As subs we serve and pleasure but we also can not forget our own happiness as well and settling for less than what we need is in deed a poor choice.  As for the wannabees may they find someone that shares their interests and leave those that do not alone.  Mutters would be a great start if They would read the stinking profiles!  Good luck.

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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 2:05:24 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I used to believe that I was a fairly well-rounded open-minded dom/Master.  This post is going to make me rethink the last 15 years.  Clearly, I have some studying to do, because even my nastiest fantasies do not compare.  Then again, I've had real partners.

You are right, what you describe does not exemplify courtesy nor respect.  It is a shame that you have had to experience the extremes in bad behavior.  It is definitely true that, in the initial stages, it is probably better to 'cut bait' quickly rather than waste a lot of time and energy on someone who does not seem to be a good fit.  You meet, things don't quite click, one person wants out.  Either can make the call, and it doesn't matter whether we're speaking of vanilla people or doms/subs/tops/bottoms, that call should be respected.

Having said that, because we kinky people have our own 'funny ideas' on what we like and how we want to be approached, it is not always easy for a dominant male to connect with a submissive female.  In essence, there is a lot of competition and the anonymous nature of the beast really doesn't help.  There are submissives who want the slow and patient way, and others seem to get caught in being swept off their feet.  What's a dom to do?

My particular bent is to be extremely (read: nearly TOO) polite in the beginning emails.  Even if/when it moves to chat or phone calls prior to a meeting, I don't really show what skills I have.  I do this to protect both of us.  I don't want to play on a first meeting.  I want to be certain that I would like to develop something further before the intensity rises.  I will give a polite 'thanks but no thanks' and I know how to take one, as well.  Unfortunately I seem to be in the minority here.

Then again, aren't we all looking for something or someone 'very' special?  It takes patience.

Jeff

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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 3:15:44 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Morpheus07 and Level you are quite right and i do look at it as a "weeding" process, but i can't help but have a small part of me feel diminished by being so accomodating and open with myself for weeks only to have  the door "slammed" in my face over an issue that they were not even willing to discuss?   i'm not talking about a one time email here where some dom just gave me a list of what he liked and i replied "no can do" and that was it, i am talking about a rapport that was formed and supported by each of us for many hours a day.  i would think a dom would want to leave the impression, in the very least, that they had some honor about them??  i guess i should feel lucky not more time was wasted - or they waited till i was tied down and then tried their fetish on me lol!! 

Susan thanks for your reply as well, i have been reading many of your posts and you are always kind, thoughtful and intelligent in your replies to people, i admire that quailty in you :-)  i agree that it's so much easier to just be upfront and tell people how you feel even if it means "i don't want to continue with you". i would have such infinitestimal more  respect for them if they did that. i was seeing a dom about 2 yeras ago and after i played with him one time i knew my emotions and head were not in the right place and i felt guilty about it. i wasn't too sure what to do, i had put one foot forth so i felt compelled to give at least some explanation as to why i couldn't continue. It struck me - hey just be honest no shame in having made a wrong decision about being ready to step  forth too soon. i did that and it led to great discussions where i was able to talk through a lot of what i was feeling and he helped me a lot to grow and get past what i needed to. i continued seeing him and was fine with that as long as he knew where my head was at. He wanted to explore his sadistic side more and it became a nice exchange that i remember very fondly :-)  We are stil very good friends, he has a submissive now he is very serious with and will most likely marry one day and i am thrilled for him, hes a wonderful guy.  The point of relating this is to say - respect, courtesy, and honestly can go a long way and lead to many wonderful "other things"

Diamonddreamlove i agree - people need to read profiles more. It would save a lot of wasted time.  Thank you for your encouragement and i will continue, cautiously and with a bit more hesitation to be as candid as i have been upfront. 

Jeff i am glad you are polite enough to the subs you encounter to ast least say thanks but no thanks - this means a lot to them i am sure - no one wants to be treated rudely and without any respect at all.  i do try also to take into consideration that the doms i meet have had their own "bad experiences" and perhaps they are reacting to them in how they are treating me.  It's a shame though cause where will it end? 

i appreaciate all your responses, thank you :-)

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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 3:45:16 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I wouldn't neccesarily see someone making those requests as "wankers, losers, wannabees", etc, but they would certainly seem to fall into the fetish chasing category as opposed someone looking for a more rounded relationship, which the OP seems to want.
 
She feels they're rude for cutting off contact once they knew she didn't have an interest in those specific acts; maybe so. I'd look at it as just a quick way of letting the "weeding" begin, as you say, Morpheus.
Sighs...I wish Level would quit reading my mind and then posting before I can..darn it....Level, dear man, are you sure you are not some long lost sibling of mine?..Tooooo many times you have written my thoughts and thus rendered me speechless...GRR....ach well! to the OP...what Level said feels to me to be the most logical answer to your question...be well..Tempting

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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 3:45:37 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well I apprecuate the kind words from you, velvettears. Good luck.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 5:03:40 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would think a dom would want to leave the impression, in the very least, that they had some honor about them??  i guess i should feel lucky not more time was wasted - or they waited till i was tied down and then tried their fetish on me lol!! 

i appreaciate all your responses, thank you :-)


Exactly. Get those that do not fit out of the way, so you can find the one that does . Good luck.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 5:06:14 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I wouldn't neccesarily see someone making those requests as "wankers, losers, wannabees", etc, but they would certainly seem to fall into the fetish chasing category as opposed someone looking for a more rounded relationship, which the OP seems to want.
 
She feels they're rude for cutting off contact once they knew she didn't have an interest in those specific acts; maybe so. I'd look at it as just a quick way of letting the "weeding" begin, as you say, Morpheus.
Sighs...I wish Level would quit reading my mind and then posting before I can..darn it....Level, dear man, are you sure you are not some long lost sibling of mine?..Tooooo many times you have written my thoughts and thus rendered me speechless...GRR....ach well! to the OP...what Level said feels to me to be the most logical answer to your question...be well..Tempting


*points at crystal ball, ouija board, and magic 8-ball*
 
Tempting, it may be a case of great minds thinking alike!

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 5:32:21 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		velvetears:

As hard as it may be, try not to take it personally when someone who thinks he can be the dominant party in a relationship proves that he doesnt even have the decency to be upfront when realizing that you're not his cup of tea. What does that say about him?  A. He lacks common courtesy. B. He lacks courage.  C. He doesnt understand the meaning of the word care.  Care starts between strangers and with any luck it evolves to something substantial,  and if it doesnt, we should care enough about another human being that we were getting close to, to let them know that its just not going to work out.  But the problem is alot of people, males and females, tend to not give a shit about a person who cannot benefit them in some way.  Its so much easier than owning responsibility for their decisions.  Its very lame, but unfortunately its not uncommon. I suspect this is what is happening in the cases you speak of.  As soon as they see that you're not a mindless twit willing to put yourself at risk for their orgasm, they cant even be bothered to let you know that they're no longer interested.  This does not make you inadequate..  There is nothing wrong with having some limits.  Especially when you know you have them, admit you have them and are upfront about them.  Who could ask for more? 
In my opinion, the things that you refused were not unreasonable.  Im sorry to be graphic but the cum in the eyes is beyond kink and entering into physical endangerment.  First of all, not only is ejaculate not meant to go into the eyeballs, but the force of the projection alone could do damage under certain circumstances. Being careless with a submissive's well-being, to me, is not responsible.  Seems to me you have a very good eye for ruling these types out.  I would say continue to trust yourself.  Yes, it is frustrating after a while, so much so, that I just take a break from time to time and step away from it until I feel refreshed again. 

On a side note for a little comic relief, I can top all of those sick requests.  Several years ago I spoke to a man who wanted to brush his teeth in bed and use my mouth as his rinse and spit receptacle.  But I did have the decency to tell him he was a sick fucker before I blocked him.  :)  

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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 5:40:55 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
On a side note for a little comic relief, I can top all of those sick requests.  Several years ago I spoke to a man who wanted to brush his teeth in bed and use my mouth as his rinse and spit receptacle.  But I did have the decency to tell him he was a sick fucker before I blocked him.  :)  


marieToo do you ever wonder where they get all these nasty ideas from?  Do they lay in bed at night with their hands crossed behind their heads staring at the ceiling thinking - how can i be the grossest dom to squick a sub?  Bravo to you for letting him know what you think before ignoring his sorry a**.  i try real hard at times to keep an open mind but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade!! 

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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 5:47:52 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
On a side note for a little comic relief, I can top all of those sick requests.  Several years ago I spoke to a man who wanted to brush his teeth in bed and use my mouth as his rinse and spit receptacle.  But I did have the decency to tell him he was a sick fucker before I blocked him.  :)  


marieToo do you ever wonder where they get all these nasty ideas from?  Do they lay in bed at night with their hands crossed behind their heads staring at the ceiling thinking - how can i be the grossest dom to squick a sub?  Bravo to you for letting him know what you think before ignoring his sorry a**.  i try real hard at times to keep an open mind but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade!! 


We all have preferences, and what I'm about to say isn't an attempt at altering anyone's. But I would gently suggest we all keep in mind that there are millions of people that think every one of us is a "sick fucker". As long as it is consentual, all's fair in love and kink.....
 
FYI: the above does not mean I have an urge to wipe shit on anyone, spit on anyone, cum in anyone's eyes, or have them bleed all over the damn place .

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 5:49:58 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
Isn't it so much easier just to be upfront and honest with others then be like a "wolf in sheeps clothing" and lie and decieve others?


We are taught to lie, especially when it comes to these desires we have. So, no, it may not be easier to be honest for a lot of people. Congratulate yourself; you have found something you don't want, which is as important as finding what you do.

Master Fire


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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 5:56:11 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
On a side note for a little comic relief, I can top all of those sick requests.  Several years ago I spoke to a man who wanted to brush his teeth in bed and use my mouth as his rinse and spit receptacle.  But I did have the decency to tell him he was a sick fucker before I blocked him.  :)  


marieToo do you ever wonder where they get all these nasty ideas from?  Do they lay in bed at night with their hands crossed behind their heads staring at the ceiling thinking - how can i be the grossest dom to squick a sub?  Bravo to you for letting him know what you think before ignoring his sorry a**.  i try real hard at times to keep an open mind but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade!! 


I agree.  I really really try not to condemn, because Im sure that I might like something that others would consider sick.  But theres a line in my world that some of this stuff crosses where I just feel like its ok to say 'its sick'.  And yes I do wonder how they come up with this stuff.  For the life of me I cannot get inside their heads and even begin to imagine where some of this stuff comes from. 

But then, theres the creative types that I *do* like;  the ones who *are* dominant and they dont have to prove it by cumming in our eyeballs. lmaoooo....And Im kinda thankful that they exist.  Like you said, Its just a matter of  'weeding' through them to get to the good ones. 

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 6:17:10 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		[/quote]

We all have preferences, and what I'm about to say isn't an attempt at altering anyone's. But I would gently suggest we all keep in mind that there are millions of people that think every one of us is a "sick fucker". As long as it is consentual, all's fair in love and kink.....
 
FYI: the above does not mean I have an urge to wipe shit on anyone, spit on anyone, cum in anyone's eyes, or have them bleed all over the damn place .
[/quote]

LOL... glad to know it!! And you are right Level it's not right to judge someone elses "kink" hard as that may be at times lol.  My issue really isn't their kink it's their reaction to me - their discourtesy and lack of manners. Actually of the three the scat dom was the nicest, he did send me at least a brief email. 

(in reply to Level)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 6:19:59 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		[/quote]
But then, theres the creative types that I *do* like;  the ones who *are* dominant and they dont have to prove it by cumming in our eyeballs. lmaoooo....And Im kinda thankful that they exist.  Like you said, Its just a matter of  'weeding' through them to get to the good ones. 
[/quote]

i am grateful there are some out there that don't  have to prove their dominance doing "bizarre" stuff too!  Where are they? lmao - if you find some send em my way

(in reply to marieToo)
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RE: Where has simple courtesy and respect gone? - 7/29/2006 6:24:18 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

We are taught to lie, especially when it comes to these desires we have. So, no, it may not be easier to be honest for a lot of people. Congratulate yourself; you have found something you don't want, which is as important as finding what you do.

Master Fire



i don't think i agree with this.  Who teaches us to lie??  Maybe we have to be discreet and not tell others about our proclivities because society judges us but we certainly do owe each other within this lifestyle honesty, without that how can you build anything?? 

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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