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Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 11:40:56 AM   
trixr4kids


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I would like to know if you think a Dom who strikes a sub in anger during punishment is OK, or would you consider it non-consentual abuse?
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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 11:49:16 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: trixr4kids 
I would like to know if you think a Dom who strikes a sub in anger during punishment is OK, or would you consider it non-consentual abuse?


Generally, people barely have any control and understanding of what they are doing when they "punish" anyway- so I certainly wouldn't want them adding volatile anger into the mix.

That being said, anger in terms of PLAY can be done effectively and productively for those involved for some people.

Most people just swear off doing anything in bdsm when they are angry which is probably wise.  But there are some people who know how to play well when angry and can use it very nicely to create an intense scene.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 12:25:16 PM   
Estring


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It's not the anger that would be bad, it would be the loss of control. I have spanked my slave while angry at her, but never have I lost my control over the situation or my emotions.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 12:32:33 PM   
popeye1250


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No.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 12:36:10 PM   
Yang4yin


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If control is maintained, anger is not an absolutely bad thing. But the keyword is control!

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 12:40:15 PM   
DiurnalVampire


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Well, yes and no.  In my case at least, if I werent made angry, there would be no punishment.  It is casue and effect.  However, the thing that is most important is that you have to know how to walk away, calm down and handle the punishment properly.  Any punishment decided on and carried out in anger is going to be more trouble than its worth. Getting angry is human, learning to be a responsible Master or Mistress and handle it properly is key.

DV

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 12:51:25 PM   
mstrjx


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I answered this a little differently in the Sub/Slave forum, but I will expound on this here.

I'm a very 'in control' person.  I stay at 5.  Sometimes that works in my favor, sometimes perhaps not.  I bring the roller coaster about in others, while I stay in one place.  I like it that way.

There was a recent incident with someone in my care that admittedly made me quite angry.  I won't go into details, but the nature of the incident was quite bad, and probably the best thing to have done was to release the partner.  In this particular case that wasn't actually an option; hence, a severe punishment.

Although the partner wasn't present at the time of the offense (or else the offense would never have occurred), there was sufficient time between my knowledge of the action and the time of the punishment (a couple of hours).  As I said, I don't know if I had been there immediately whether or not I was out of control (HIGHLY doubtful), but certainly not when the punishment was given.

Once in the act, the obvious sternness that was coming from me was obvious, but the punishment, both physical and psychological, was geared towards making the partner understanding of not only the situation, but how she should have handled the events leading up to the offense.  In other words, punishment was given hand-in-hand with even-handed education.

To sum up, I was angry (I suppose, it's hard to tell with me) but quite composed and in control of myself.

Losing control is unacceptable.

Jeff

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 2:36:32 PM   
RavenMuse


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As has been mentioned by others, the issue is not anger, but control.

I know my temper, If I'm irritated, I am still in control... if it flares... I am still in control enough to time out till I can make competent and controled decisions.

I don't use punishment in the way you are describing anyhow so the rest is moot but no, anger doesn't, to my mind change anything.... being out of control would do.


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(in reply to trixr4kids)
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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 2:54:58 PM   
swtnsparkling


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If you were not in a D/s relationship and  did some thing very wrong say your husband or boyfriend was angry would him striking you be ok?
IMO if I deserved a punishment give it to me but stike me in anger while giving it. Um no Different story. Loss of control

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 3:20:01 PM   
subinsouth


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violence is violence - i don't believe in non-consentual violence of any sort.  that is why they make "Protective Orders".  if a Dom/me strikes a sub in anger, whether it is during a  "punishment" or just cause They are angry,  They should really reconsider whether They should actually call themselves Dominant.  i would hope that a Dominant would learn to control their anger before trying to control a sub.  i would also hope that the sub would realize this Dominant is not the one she/he should be submitting to.  to me, this subject is in no way consentual.  oh yeah, and did i mention there is such a thing as a "Protective Order".  geeez. . . . .   

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 3:25:18 PM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsouth

violence is violence - i don't believe in non-consentual violence of any sort.  that is why they make "Protective Orders".  if a Dom/me strikes a sub in anger, whether it is during a  "punishment" or just cause They are angry,  They should really reconsider whether They should actually call themselves Dominant.  i would hope that a Dominant would learn to control their anger before trying to control a sub.  i would also hope that the sub would realize this Dominant is not the one she/he should be submitting to.  to me, this subject is in no way consentual.  oh yeah, and did i mention there is such a thing as a "Protective Order".  geeez. . . . .   


There is a big difference in striking out in anger, and punishing when needed. Striking out is not being in control. Giving an appropriate punishment is being in control of your anger.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 3:25:41 PM   
smilezz


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Edited because sometimes i need to keep my fingers from typing a smartass remark.

< Message edited by smilezz -- 7/31/2006 3:28:48 PM >


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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 4:14:22 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

It's not the anger that would be bad, it would be the loss of control. I have spanked my slave while angry at her, but never have I lost my control over the situation or my emotions.


Excellent point... and I agree.  Being Angry doesn't equate to abuse.  Behavior directed/projected at another will be the detereminant of abusive or not.  Is the Projected Behaviors causing Harm on another?  This raises a second question... What is Harm?

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 5:18:26 PM   
IronBear


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I agree that what is the central point is control. Like ravenMuse, I know my temper, but as a matter of principle I will not punish when angry. I will wait till I am calm and collected then decide on what punishment will be metered out, when and where it will occure.. 

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(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 5:39:11 PM   
krikket


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When my unmentionables were small, but certainly old enough to make me see red (and a few other colors..lol) i instinctively knew that was when they were sent to their room, corner, where ever, just out of my sight until i felt more in control (even a sub needs control at times.)... i never struck them in anger and i don't think i could handle that as an adult either.  i guess it all boils down to the kind of relationship you have and what the agreement has been, and...perhaps it would be time to discuss the dynamics y'all have going on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: trixr4kids


I would like to know if you think a Dom who strikes a sub in anger during punishment is OK, or would you consider it non-consentual abuse?


_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 6:10:10 PM   
HouseofBear


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First of all we do not use corporal punishment.  Corporal play, yes, chuckles.  However, we make it a point not to punish while we are angry.  We wait until we are calm and cool, then decide what corrective action will be taken.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 7:22:54 PM   
iowastud


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i would say its not alright to hit a sub out of anger during punishment. it a good way to injure her or him.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 7:24:45 PM   
bluessss


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If it happened to me I would consider it nonconcentual abuse.

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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 7:33:57 PM   
mnottertail


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LOLOLOLOL,
So the Dom or whatever is not allowed to feel, control or no....poor fuckin' slaves......

So where is this line drawn?

When you told me not to do this, and I did anyway? what were your feelings exactly?

A) betrayed
B) nonchalant
C) angry
D) Jungian motion given the space-time juxtaposition of the universe
E) disappointed
F) frustrated........

Really, now folks, if you are a slave or submissive or whatever.....if you are taking more than one distasteful punishment every five years or so, one of you two fucks is sick beyond repair.


If you want a beating, ask for one, punishment is no goal to cherish, for either.

End Of Joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron



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RE: Anger. Is there a place for this during punishment - 7/31/2006 7:38:42 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bluessss

If it happened to me I would consider it nonconcentual abuse.


I guess your Dominant better be Happy if he desires to use punishment... otherwise... it is likely Abuse.

But then that begs to question... if he's happy.. why would he punish for the wrong doing of slave/sub?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to bluessss)
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