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RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 3:51:30 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I just don't understand what the aversion to a personal label in this lifestyle is all about. It helps others identify with you at several levels. Sure, some people seem to cop an attitude, "Oh, she's jsut a bottom, or sub, or...", whatever. Fine, if that's how people want to use those labels, then they're not ones that I'd want to associate with. The point of labels is so that you can have a frame of reference so you can relate, to understand the point of view of the one that uses a particular label.


See, that's a really huge issue and I do understand why bottoms get pissed off over it, to say someone is just an anything implies that it's unworthy in some respect, and I agree with you, the person doing it isn't someone I would want to spend any time with. That is one really good point in using labels. It immediately weeds out the people you want to avoid. The ones that see it as the total and absolute definition of the person using that label. As you said, it should open up communication, give each person the chance to ask questions and get to know the other. Instead it starts fires, some rather serious fires at that.

quote:

my point is that because i do enjoy being flogged, i get the label "bottom" or "maschosist". and no, these labels are not totaly inaccurate. but what is your definition of masochism? is the same as mine? do you expect me take whatever the dom wants to dish out? should i grin and bear it while the dom plays with a bullwhip when the thought of a bullwhip makes me shudder like hell?


That's where communication should step in. Choosing a label doesn't free anyone from the responsibility of communicating their needs, wants, desire, limits and basic ideals of what and who they are.

quote:

A label is a way of grouping things together, it is a natural part of evolution - designed to help us predict behaviors.

The stereotype is what you consider to be a typical member of a group - members of the group often differ from the stereotype, but if they have enough common features they can fit.

Often people make assumptions about everyone in a group by referring to their stereotypes.
 
This is where the crappy stuff starts happening.  


That is sooooo true, but again, either people can take the time to educate those that do that, or they will know right off whether or not they wish to end communication with that person.

I think that's probably one of my biggest issues. So many fight against being labeled top, bottom, dominant, sub/slave or switch... and I really don't get it??? If someone treats you in a manner that is, in your opinion, inappropriate simply because of the way you "label" yourself... isn't it good to see that kind of ignorance now rather then later... after you have spent countless hours talking and getting to know them? It doesn't just happen to sub/slaves/bottoms you know... it happens to dominants as well! I've heard so many on the other side of the kneel say "I may be a submissive, but I'm not your submissive!" Well, that coin has two sides, I may be a dominant, but I'm not your dominant comes to mind quite often for me, but I'm not going to change or obliterate my "label" due to it. I see my "label" as a jumping off point in communicating with others.... from that point they can learn what kind of dominant I am, whether or not I'm a sadist and or masochist and it goes on and on. To me, refusing to say one way or the other concerning your lifestyle orientation is similar to refusing to say whether or not you are male or female. My gender says nothing more about me the what my gender is, if you want to know more, ask. The same thing holds true in how I label my own orientation.

Jewel


_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to scottjk)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 4:17:46 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		For me, I don't think it's a *fear* of defining myself as much as it's a dynamic process.  I entered into a 'branch' of the lifestyle (fetish hypnotic domination) and soon went pro as a hypnotic domina, all along knowing that I was much more aroused when I was on the 'other side of the watch' and submitting to a dominant man.  When my submissive tendencies could no longer be ignored and I began seeking men to spank me, I was guided by the Dom I met to realize that not only was I a submissive, but I was a full-blown slave-in-the-making, with the makings of a decent masochist to boot.  Imagine that. 

So someone could call me a switch and assume that I am looking for a relationship in which I can turn the tables on my Master and they would be totally wrong.  Actually, I'd love to find a Master confident enough to allow me to trance my little submissives and slaves on the side and keep a tidy income and a mischievous smile on my face. 

When a prospective Master meets me for coffee, he is often amazed to find that I am an educated woman with an advanced degree, articulate, funny and assertive, anything *but* a passive little wallflower.  When I *choose* to submit though, I channel all that wild passion into being the most amazing slave I can be. 

So it's a complex me that a label can't adequately capture.  And for that, I am glad.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 4:37:23 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

When ever I  hear someone say they don't fit a lable it makes me wonder.. why are you afraid to define yourself?


I wonder how you came to the conclusion that people are afraid to define themselves because they won't wear a label that was created by someone else.

quote:


This lifestyle is nothing BUT lables!  And god forbid you assume someone is a domme if they are a sub and so forth.  You would soon be severly corrected of your mis-assumption! LOL


Have you ever thought to ask?  I mean, it would have taken you a lot less time to ask the person about how they define themselves than to create this thread.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 5:05:58 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		<<
Have you ever thought to ask?  I mean, it would have taken you a lot less time to ask the person about how they define themselves than to create this thread.

~Thorns
<<
Have you ever thought to ask?  I mean, it would have taken you a lot less time to ask the person about how they define themselves than to create this thread.

~Thorns
>>

Actually this was not a thread born of wanting to ask someone their "lable" but of the self-rightous attitude some come across as that they are just so unique, 'open minded' and special they have none.  I really could give a rat's ass.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 5:11:05 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
This lifestyle is nothing BUT lables!


The lifestyle isn't about lables, the lifestyle is about however things work between person A and person B, it is about DOING, not about labling. Que zen "Sound of one hand clapping?"

However TALKING about the lifestyle, just like talking about anything else, involves lables... thats all WORDS are, lables. I say "Chair", you understand the concept of "Chair", we have a shared lable of what "Chair" means.... Even if you visualise a big soft leather armchair and I mean a small uncomfortable wooden thing with a wobbly back, at least the lable has us roughly in the right ball park. A start point to refine the discussion further till we, with luck, end with you haveing a fairly clear picture of what I am refering to (Easier to just point at a chair and say "one of THEM!" but there ya go, I'm sure you get my point)

It is how communication works, building one lable on top of another until the concept is successfully related from one person and, hopefully, understood by another.

Someone saying they don't fit the lable probably isn't 'afraid' of anything, they are simply signaling that they are not comfortable with you making assumptions of them based on the 'common' use of whatever lable they have. They are likely to be saying "talk to me more, use diffrent lables and hopefully I can get you to understand what *I* actualy mean rather than what you think I mean."


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 5:17:51 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I already labeled you, i labeled you Bad Man just like my Master, lol.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 5:46:14 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietDom

Okay, all of you who have insisted that labels cannot or should not be applied to people as a descriptive tool, I hereby proclaim you all to be "Label-Haters."  Now if you reject all other labels, you can't avoid this one! 


Ok, I know you're kidding, but even so it's not really accurate either. I don't hate labels. We need them to communicate. What I take exception to is the attitude by many that you MUST fit one of them or you don't belong. Or the misperception that if one falls into one category that he/she can't or shouldn't do something viewed to belong to another category. I see a lot of questions on these boards such as "if a Dom likes to be flogged is he submissive?" "Is being nurturing OK for a Dom?" "can a sub be independent?" "how can there be a two Dom couple"? etc......

There just seems to be a whole lot of discussion that really comes down to the bottom line answer that people are NOT labels. Maybe it would be more accurate to say I hate assumptions.

(in reply to QuietDom)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 6:21:08 AM   
BenignPlague


Posts: 52
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		Hah, Lotus, I enjoyed that.

I suppose the label thing is really a non-issue to me.  I try to meet as many people as possible, talk to everyone and so forth.  I don't have the holier-than-thou attitude that some have, saying that if you don't pass this litmus test, you can't even say hi to me.  Everyone can be a friend, and from that pool, some can be more.  You just have to take a chance and (gasp) actually get to know people.

Aa

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 9:30:30 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenignPlague

The same people that say they are against labels will also say they're seeking "the strong, but caring guy" or "a wild guy not afraid to settle down" or some other single-sentence descriptor of the ideal mate.  As hard as we try or try not to use labels, they form, the products of experience and predictability.

Adam


 
For myself, i would have to disagree, and i do not like the use of such blanket statements. ;)  i don't look for labels, i don't really say i want a "kind" or "caring" or "sexy" Master, Dom or what ever.  i use labels mainly for sake of discussion and clarity when a topic is being spoken about.  i merely seek out those who resonate with my energy, and with whom i feel a mutual attraction, chemistry and connection, and with whom i feel good being around, none of the other stuff matters much to me, for i make no distinctions in the first place. 
 
~raiken

(in reply to BenignPlague)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 9:35:31 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Actually, I find that the people who get the most upset with a "lable" are those that I have labled correctly :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to BenignPlague)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 9:37:18 AM   
impishlilhellcat


Posts: 4379
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline 		I see it like this label me however you want. I don't care. Label me blue or pink or even label me retarded. I know what I am and where I stand and as long as I have people around me and close to me that know me as well as I know myself I am all good!

_____________________________

Anyone who says they have only one life to live must not know how to read a book - Unknown

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 9:46:22 AM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I did not read the entire thread, as I skipped from post 5 to about post 45.  Just so everyone knows.

I mostly agree with Raven. (What a surprise)  A broad label lets people tell the world what group they identify with in a broad sense.  They are essential to communication.

However, anyone who thinks that because someone is a sub they are the same as another sub is an idiot.  Just as someone who calls up Ikea, tells them to send them a chair, and gets upset when the wrong one arrives, is an idiot.

I identify as a sub.  I have been told that as a saditstic ass, I am also a switch.  I think that with the right woman, I could become a slave.  To some people, I am not submissive at all.  To others, I am extremely submissive.  I enjoy pain, but do not have it as a prerequisite to a relationship.  I am a masochist.  I could go on, but I think I need to wake all of you up first.

At the end of the day, if I meet someone, and tell them I am a sub, they can either say, "Oh, good.  That's roughly what I'm looking for.  I would love to get to know you better," or "Oh.  No, I'm looking for a switch," and I can reply with, "Explain, please," or they can say, "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY WINDOW, YOU PERVERT!"

The first two are conducive to a relationship, the third to a restraining order.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to impishlilhellcat)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 10:38:51 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		fast reply cuz I feel like it.....

Call me a bossy arrogant old batich but I have an intense dislike for labels. Even the few choices I had to make to create my profile on here don't really give the "rest of the story". If I had to come up with all the labels that work for me, there would be so many we could wallpaper all of collarme and many of them would be contradicting one another. I think that human beings are far to complex to define easily. Also, I feel that as time goes on, we all grow and change (hopefully) as we learn. Who we were last year can be vastly different from who we are now. Each relationship is different and will bring new experiences, likes and dislikes, in addition to things we will leave behind. To say that I enjoyed X with Amy does not mean I will with Fred or even WANT to do it with Fred. If you feel happier and more comfy in your lil world by giving me a label have at it, your certainly not going to hurt my feelings. Just don't expect me to answer to them when you call.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 10:42:05 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		:)  I see you as a Renaissance Woman :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 10:46:08 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
If you feel happier and more comfy in your lil world by giving me a label have at it, your certainly not going to hurt my feelings.


*Sticks "CUTE" lable on LaT*


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 11:07:50 AM   
scottjk


Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bignipples2share

quote:

scottjk
SwtMazokst, I would label you as a switch, simply because you are a professional Domme and probably a private sub.

Ah, but her listing as a switch is not what she is looking for. If your job is being a lawyer, that has nothing to do with your being dom or sub, therefore what she does most of the time is Dom, it does not mean that she is not sub.
And what catagory is Dark then? She is a Top submissive. What label is that?
Or me for that matter, I say I top from the bottom, but I actually don't consider myself sub, I just like some things that are considered sub. I guess I'm looking for a sub who can act dom lol...put a label on THAT one.

~Big


You'll have to read Swt's posting a little more closely. I read it as a Pro Domme, with a desire for a very dominant man in her private life. While she's chosen a career as a Pro Domme, and does presentations and seminars as a Pro Domme, she views it as a means of serving others as a means to adress her needs. Switch is non-specific enough to use, although she has expressed a desire to be at least emotionally submissive to some one in a relationship. It gives me a frame of reference to relate to, that's all. It doesn't matter what she's 'looking for' in terms of how she labels herself, if at all. What matters is the context in how I relate to her. She may not care if I tell her I'm dom, but if I want her to relate to me better, that's what I'll inform her, out of courtesy.

As for Dark, top works. Again, it's general enough to understand and relate to her, for the same reason. But that's based on limited information and I would, if desired, inquire further. She doesn't go into detail, but that's her choice.

As for you, bignipples, based on your limited info, I would consider a bottom. This is based on your profile. If I'm way off base, then I would advise being a little more clear in your profile. Again, it's a GENERAL label.

Overall, everyone, if you're offended because a label isn't specific enough, you're barking up the wrong tree. Many labels aren't intended to be specifc, and avoiding them entirely, and the arguments for doing so, simply hinders communications, and the ability to relate. If you want to make it easier for those of us that use labels (majority of people), the sensible thing would be to use them. Just because one sub isn't like another, or a dom is not like another is non-sequitor and entirely besides the point. A non-argument.

Now, if we were all telepathic, life would be good and this discussion would be completely pointless, as we would know the instant we made contact what each other's preferences are. Scince that doesn't happen, guess what? We use labels, then refine them as we learn more things that are specific to that person.

(in reply to bignipples2share)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 11:54:39 AM   
beenwhipped


Posts: 191
Joined: 5/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

No girl, there's a label for that, too. you're a "tweenie". you're welcome. LMAO
was that ment for me? what is a tweenie? another reason not to like labels, i have no clue what that means.

and realy the only reason tht i dont like labels is the fact that some peiple only go by that label that was given to you, weither by yourself or someone else, to define you. i personaly dont care what i am called, labeled, etc, because i am still me, it only affects how others see me.

oh, and if this was ment for me, there is one label that does fit me. male.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 12:27:34 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

Labels are a starting point, not an end all, be all.  I marked the "box" on my profile as submissive.  Yet, there is so much more to each of us than that.  And everyone's definition of submission varies depending on how "submissive" they are; how much control they are willing to yield (*wink* CD).

~grins and winks back~

quote:

In order to correctly label ourselves, we would need a label to define every aspect of our lives and that just sounds exhausting, not to mention boring.


I disagree (but you knew that was coming, didn't you nef?  ~my turn to wink now...g~)
As you stated, labels are a starting point only and anyone with a modicum of intelligence is going to, or should, know that.  A person stating that, for example, "I am a sensual,  sadistic bedroom dominant" gives a submissive the information
that this is someone who is most likely interested in bedroom dominance only and that, in the bedroom, s/he is interested in creating pain and that at least part of their sexual satisfaction comes from doing so.  That they are also interested in sexual arousal derived from exploration and play of the senses.  The label...bedroom dominant...gives the indication that they are not interested in being dominant outside the bedroom and for someone who is not, the label is much more succinct than writing a two paragraph explanation that, in the long run, states the same thing.  For those seeking a dominant who is dominant 24/7, in other areas besides the bedroom, the person using said label has told them that they are not that person.  It does not pin down any other aspect of the person.  They can go on to describe every single discrepancy about themselves or they can let the viewer know that they love to talk and the person can find out that this person has so much more to offer than if you see him/her by the one label only.  But that label at least helps you decide whether you want to pursue a friendship OR something more with this person.

quote:

But I really like one of MSIncognito's reasons and maybe I'll just use it from now on - that I'm just too super special and unique to be labeled. 


Well, of course I would fit in there too;  excuse me but...aren't we in the "just too super special and unique" labelled box now?    ~running~
In all seriousness, I sort of feel like Tigresse.  There is much about me that is contradictory and much that probably does not fit the "stereotypical Dominant".  I know that and yet still label myself as dominant.  I also label myself as sadistic and yet, do not fit the dictionary-only definition of sadist...don't always fit the BDSM definition either...but it is a starting point.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 8/2/2006 12:40:14 PM >

(in reply to nefertari)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 12:47:22 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Gosh, I just feel too inexperienced to label myself, outside of saying I am submissive (and possibly with Switch tendencies). I was, for awhile, starting to call myself a masochist, but upon further reading about it elsewhere, and after a particularly good thread by mistoferin last week, about submissives claiming this and then having said that mist-construed by the person they were engaging in activity with (w/possibly dangerous results), I decided I don't have anywhere near enough experience to say that about myself, regardless of having an interest in (receiving) Sadism. There is just so much to know - that I don't feel comfortable labelling myself outisde of saying, for example, that I have an interest in a particular activity.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/2/2006 1:07:48 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Lables!! - 8/2/2006 11:08:08 PM   
KindredTotem


Posts: 156
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		I think knowing who you are is more important then any label. Most times when asked what I am my simple answer back is 'I am me'. Unless I am getting close to that person they do not need to know the total complex dynamics of me. Not many would understand anyways and would make their own judgement either it was mentioned or not.

_____________________________

KT says:

Life changes a person, in their views, in their thoughts and in their action. The one thing that never changes is the persons main values.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 60
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