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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 4:11:55 PM   
NorthernGent


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makeme,

I'm not aiming insults for the sake of insults. Just a spot of light-hearted banter. However, I could put a good case together to suggest that the people of the US should not attempt to absolve themselves of blame by saying "we are just living our lives". It smacks of a get out of jail free card when, as a society, you are electing a Government that is emersing itself in slaughtering people.

Regards

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 4:13:06 PM   
IronBear


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Having played both codes of football and having a great passion for both (Seeing that no two codes can be compared anyway), I'll continue to support Dallas Cowboys and The Wallabies (especially love it when they beat the "Poms" ). Naturally I love watching the Test matches when England (The Old Enemy) is desperately trying to beat the Aussies in cricket...  Baseball, I enjoy watching (Haven't a clue how it works but a jolly good spectator sport (usually Neets interprets the game for me)... Culturally? I grew up here when we were very british and to be fair I haven't realy forgiven the US for the trend of wearing baseball caps backwards and those ridiculas short pants which come down past the knees and make the wearer look like a reject from a refuge camp or their invading our airwaves with hiphop and rap.. All things being equal, I could happily spend equal time in both countries (even better if the US learns to drive on the propper side of the road.. )




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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 4:23:14 PM   
NorthernGent


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Ironbear,

Desperately trying to beat the Aussies at Cricket? Your memory doesn't stretch back a year then :-)

Fair enough Ironbear, to each their own. Their sports are a tad strange though - doesn't gridiron go on for about 4 days or something?

Regards

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 4:32:52 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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Hmmmm, should Britian or the US die? No, just some citizens, and both countries would clean up nicely. 

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 4:42:47 PM   
NorthernGent


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Britian has the highest rates of drug abuse, obesity, teenage pregnancy, alcohol-fuelled vioence and levels of serious crime in Europe (although I read somewhere that Germany has more cannibals).

I have a sneaking suspicion that the US is also afflicted by the same high rates of the above. So, what is going wrong with these two countries?

Regards

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 4:56:44 PM   
missturbation


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Omg have i finally found another Kate Bush fan?
Yay lol.

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 5:06:16 PM   
IronBear


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G'day NG,

One commonality between Rugby and Gridiron is the close quaters combat (mobile wrestling if you will).. Cricket? We had to allow you blokes to have an occasikonal win didn't we.... Still when they tour here many of us get a buzz out of the "Dad's Army" cheer spectator team which comes accross as well....Besides which it's our National Pastime to beat up on trhe Pomms and Kiwis, good mates all in a real stouch..

Australia has one of the highest incidents of childhood obesity and early type 2 diatetes in the world. I believe as do mny others it has a great deal to do with lack of regular excersise and diet. I guess we can find more to respect each other (Brits, Americans, Kiwis and Aussies) than we absolutely hate...


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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/4/2006 11:34:15 PM   
MasterKalif


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interesting subject....both countries are interesting and good in many respects as they are bad and hypocritical in others....
Britain used to be an empire....now only the empire mentality and self-righteousness remains but no empire per se. The US is an empire that fears calling itself as such as it is something anathema since its founding days. US laws and political traditions come from British "freedoms" and traditions in many ways, decending from the creation of the Great Magna Carta which gave Britain this political balance and led to a parliamentary system. Both countries have similar cultures of political respect, pluralism, freedoms, and this idea of protecting racial and other minorities.

The differences lie also in the political system....in Britain the monarchy is the balance of it all, a symbol of unity (hence United Kingdom) and a symbol of state and traditions, which I hope never change. The US is a republican system. On the subject of Blair and Bush, Blair wants the UK to ally itself with a strong US for his own benefits, accepting a lesser role (which in my opinion is a mistake), and both are hypocrites. I still remember when General Pinochet was wrongly arrested in London in 1998, Blair came out saying how "henchmen all over the world" would fear the hand of international law, and how Britain had this "moral" and "human" foreign policy...all this stated with a straight face while inviting dictator Mugabe of Zimbabwe to Britain, and later participating in this shameful crusade of regime change in Iraq, and now adding insult to injury, not being willing to condemn Israel for its shameful bombing campaign in Lebanon.

in the cultural aspects, the British enjoy drinking tea, used to have a higher awareness of social class (nothing wrong with that), were dignified and used to believe in Queen and country....now I am not so sure after years of liberalism and other social experiments. Brits play cricket, rugby and football. Americans drink coffee, play american football, are less class concious (this depends but seems to usually be the case), used to have high morals in government but these days that has become a sham, and only linked to religious morals, not civic-laiety morals (if that makes any sense). Americans play also baseball and some soccer....while the US could do much good, it supports regimes and democracies for its own advantage and not to further democracy as many people believe, thus making them act hypocritically much like Britain.

Yet go to Boston and parts of New York, and many parts of those cities remind you of cities in Britain...Boston has similar "terrace houses" that you see in London. Names also sound familiar...etc...this is just the tip of the ice-berg, we could be here for years explaining what is different and similar between the two countries and there is much to mention. These are the most important, I think. Keep in mind, Im neither British nor American.

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 12:50:46 AM   
NorthernGent


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Hi IronBear,

I hold my hands up with the cricket and it's looking bleak for the winter tour. As for Aussies and their brawling, can you remember John Crawley getting nutted off one of the local head-cases coming out of a nightclub in Brisbane?

It's the same when the Aussies tour here. Always sold out and good crack. Last year, seeing Flintoff clattering Shane Warne all over the show was worth the entrance fee alone - after years of Warne completely taking the piss - the Aussies behind me still wouldn't shut up about his 600 wickets though, even when sixes were sailing over their heads.

I agree with the respect issue and I have to hold my hands up here - I've never been to the US. So my pre-conceived ideas about the US are borne out of a mixture of The A Team, Dallas, The Sopranos, Miami Vice and Quincy. Who can blame me for having a warped view of the place?

Regards


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 1:16:27 AM   
NorthernGent


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MasterKalif,

A very good post and for someone not British you have a reasonable understanding of the place.

A few points worth adding:

1) In his role as Protector of the Crown our Prime Minister can make serious decisions on his own without any consultation with Parliament. So, we're not quite the democracy that our Prime Minister would lead others to believe.

2) You are exactly right about the motives behind the British Government allying itself with the US Government. It is purely economic and dictated by self-interest. Nothing whatsoever to do with spreading democracy or a special relationship - both notions are laughable. I agree totally that the British Government is a disgrace and an embarrasment to Britain with the refusal to accept that slaughtering people is wrong.

3) The tea drinking and dignified was the image of Britain. The reality of working class Britain has always been one of alcohol-fuelled brawling, gambling and unabashed debauchery. There is a strange parallel between the US today and Britain at the height of empire. Today the US is blamed for the erosion of culture and Britain was too at the height of empire - for example, in Europe, sports were seen as an English frivolity and an example of a decadent society.

4) The Liberalism tag is a red-herring. Britain is a conservative country at heart and it is one area where we are very much like the US.

A good post though.
Regards

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 1:34:06 AM   
NorthernGent


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Similarities between Britain and the US:

Conservative countries at heart.
Style over substance.
Failing societies borne out by levels of serious crime, drug abuse etc.
A love for cheesy television - such as Dallas, Quincy, Cagney and Lacey, The X files - the list is endless.
We both have leaders who have a chat and a cup of tea with God before they go to bed.
In general, insular, inward looking nations who really couldn't give a flying one about what is happening in the world.
Masters at invading countries - the US have invaded 53 countries since the end of WW2 which is impressive by anyone's standards - it's almost a country a year and I have no doubt they are busy working through the alphabet - this year it is the Is with Iraq and Iran, next year it will be the Js once Bush and his cronies can find Jordan on a map.
Idiosyncratic nations that are hard to understand because so much about both of them is contradictory - how can a country give us great films like The Deer Hunter and then serve up Terminator? why is it that everytime you meet an American in Britain they seem warm and polite yet they can support a terrorist regime like the one they have at the moment?

Differences:

The importance of the church/religion.

In conclusion, scratch the surface and we're much more alike than different.

Regards

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 4:38:06 AM   
LadyEllen


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We built an Empire basically by being the biggest arseholes on the planet at the time; "English gentlemen"? Dont make me laugh. Our problem now, if there is one, is that we developed a conscience in the early 19th century which though weak enough for a long time to allow us to continue to be arseholes and continue to build power, eventually overcame us - leaving us today as the most singularly stupid people on the planet;

1) paying the US for lend-lease equipment to fight the nazis, when if we had remained fully fledged arseholes we could be ruling the world with our Germanic cousins long since - in fact from about 1914 had we not got dragged into an alliance with the French, who were an odd choice all in all - with Bush and the US either under our rule or a strange backwater of the planet.
2) allying ourselves with the US in order to cling on to some remnant of imperial pride, yielding our territory to them to build airbases and such like, handing over our military intelligence facilities worldwide to to them and sending our people to die in their wars at our expense
3) eating their food and getting more obese even than them, watching their lowest common denominator films, importing their not at all even vaguely amusing let alone funny comedies and various assorted other awful TV programmes, using software developed by them with spellcheckers that wont allow us to spell properly, drinking their whiskey when we have the best whisky available

and then
4) paying vast subsidies to our old colonies in Africa, who whilst taking the money tell us not to meddle in their affairs as they are "independent" - and worse selling them the means of oppression of their people so that they can continue to manage "their affairs" (aka corruption and theft of our subsidies) without internal opposition too.
5) treating our European neighbours and economic partners as the enemy, when our enemies are those who exploit us without any respect or quid pro quo whatsoever, shaking our hands whilst taking our purses/wallets and/or kicking us where it hurts most and/or bending us over.

Are these the points I am missing please? What is the solution then? Should we revert to being arseholes and go build another empire - the US looks ripe for the taking what with their army so widely dispersed, and as we "know" a British soldier is worth 100 American soldiers so it shouldnt be difficult. Should we break off all ties with the rest of the world as the nazis of the BNP (British National Party) propose, rebuild our navy and go for it - ignoring that we'd be a nuclear wasteland before lunchtime on D-Day?

Or should we just accept that our own decadence, stupidity and consience got us into this mess so we maybe have no one to blame but ourselves if Blair knows what Bush had for lunch yesterday from whats in his nappy (diaper)? And continue the way we are?

Do I have the "right answer" this time please? I do so hate getting bad marks (grades).

E

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 5:16:47 AM   
ScooterTrash


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

So, let's have it......are we like the Americans and are they like us? Would we ever apreciate a country that prides itself on waffles and could the Americans ever understand cricket. Any comments will be appreciated.

Regards
NorthernGent


When you get right down to it, if you are sitting in my kitchen in the morning, or I in yours, there is no difference (we could also invite Ironbear as well). Certainly governments make some things seem on opposite ends of the spectrum, but if it was left to the masses, the only difference down deep would be the various accents and some terminology, the rest would work it's way out. I have several friends in the UK, some just on-line as well as some who have come to visit and aside from the aforementioned beaurocratic dissimilarities, we all get along fine. A sub couple we know, extemely well, came over for a two week holiday a couple years ago over the 4th of July (Independence day). Although we did have a lighthearted squirt gun fight as our way or reinacting the occasion, at the end of it all we sat down and had a good laugh about it all. Yes, we are different and we are the same....it's only when we concentrate on the differences, that we seem so different.

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RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 5:32:55 AM   
IronBear


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Is this an invitation for waffles for breaky whilst we three solvethe international conflicts before working on how we can fix our own back yards? Or is this a possibility of an International Triad heading for World Domination? I'm open for either one....

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 5:33:58 AM   
NorthernGent


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LadyEllen,

I have scones in the oven, tea to drink and the Queen to entertain this afternoon so your marks/grade will have to wait. You'll appreciate I have bigger fish to fry. However, I will give your post careful consideration later today and you will receive your marks through the post in the form of a report stamped with the Royal crest. Before you ask, I can't guarantee you a time because I have a 100 other marks (or lack of) to award.

In the meantime, just settle down with a pint of mild and pie and mushy peas at the workmen's club and do your best to take your mind off the suspense that you will grip you for the rest of the day.

Regards


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 5:36:57 AM   
EnglishDomNW


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Before I went to America, I was convinced Americans were all over-patriotic flag waving "USA!! No. 1!!" type people but I don't think I met a single person that was actually like that (ok, one guy).  Most were polite, friendly, generous people.  I'm sure America has set stereotypes about Brits (talking like Hugh Grant, feeling we're superior to everyone, bowing to the Queen etc). 

Imagine how people ever end up stereotyping millions of individuals to all have the same characteristics just because they were born on a particular part of the rock.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 5:44:28 AM   
NorthernGent


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ScooterTrash,

Emphasising difference isn't a problem. It's when that difference is feared we have problems. I've always thought we are much more alike than what appears to be the case at face value.

Regards

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 6:05:31 AM   
NorthernGent


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Ironbear,

I'm game for the second option if you are. I've made a list of my own personal objectives in this thrust for world domination:

Japan,
Eastern Europe,
The world's complete stock of tea,
Any animals that live near water so I can continue my post-modern vegetarianism of eating meat ironically.
David Hasslehoff,
Northern England,
As much cheese as I can get in a hat.

Hopefully, there will be no objections from the other members of the coalition.

Regards.







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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 6:07:46 AM   
EnglishDomNW


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Any one of us could have been born in Iran or Afghanistan or Nigeria (in which case we'd now be messaging scams on CollarMe instead of using this message board).

I love England, not in a flag-waving jingoistic way, I just love the history, culture and scenery of where I live.  And I'm reasonably thankful for it.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The US and Britain - 8/5/2006 6:13:21 AM   
IronBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Ironbear,

I'm game for the second option if you are. I've made a list of my own personal objectives in this thrust for world domination:

Japan,
Eastern Europe,
The world's complete stock of tea,
Any animals that live near water so I can continue my post-modern vegetarianism of eating meat ironically.
David Hasslehoff,
Northern England,
As much cheese as I can get in a hat.

Hopefully, there will be no objections from the other members of the coalition.

Regards.









Northern England below the boarder is all yours.. I'm part Scots/Irish on my Father's side so have a very bested interest in Scotland..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 40
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