Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (Full Version)

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SirKenin -> Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 1:47:26 PM)

I read an interesting article in Maclean's magazine today.  Apparently doctors are now starting to refuse to treat the obese, smokers, drinkers, etc.  They feel that it is a vice that can be changed and only stops them from treating other patients that are not harming themselves.  They state that being obese poses extreme risks during surgery and creates complications on recovery.  They will not do lung surgery on smokers.  They feel they are wasting money.  Apparently smoking also affects the healing of bones to other bones.

There is no law against it either.  It is completely up to the doctors and surgeons who they choose to treat, and doctors are saying either get in shape, quit smoking or drinking or go find yourself another doctor.

I do not know if any of you have seen that article.  If so a link would be good.

I am curious to hear your thoughts.




juliaoceania -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 2:32:03 PM)

I think they should have the right to treat any patient they want to   treat and refuse to treat those as regular patients they do not want to treat unless it is an emergency situation. Doctors will not treat poor and indigent patients, including uninsured children,  if they do not have to treat the poor, then why make them treat people with self imposed diseases?




EnglishDomNW -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 2:48:56 PM)

It's a pretty scary road to go down though - if a kid breaks a leg trying a stupid stunt on a skateboard can they just turn round and say it's self-inflicted, tough?




juliaoceania -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 2:53:33 PM)

Actually I am a proponent of socialized medicine, but I think my sarcasm was lost when I reread my post...smiles. People think nothing of letting the poor die, why not those who eat too much and smoke too much? I do not think anyone should go without medical treatment period.




EnglishDomNW -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 3:08:34 PM)

ok sorry, I missed how you posted it.  What if someone in the US doesn't have insurance, how do they get treated for illnesses?




MsIncognito -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 3:20:25 PM)

I guess it's their choice to treat who they want but I wonder if they will refuse to treat the thin, non-smoker who is into extreme sports who gets themselves hurt while scaling a rock face or biking down a 80 degree hill with no bike path and trees and bushes all over the place. Those people may be healthy, but they're making risky choices, too.

I did hear of a case in the news this year where doctors wouldn't perform a procedure on a smoker  based on the fact that because of the  smoking along with other health issues they felt that the surgery was risky and not likely to have  a good outcome. The media, however, latched onto the smoking angle and made it out to be something it wasn't. To me that's different than choosing to not treat a smoker or someone who is overweight simply because they smoke or are overweight. Many doctors tell their patients to lose weight before surgery. A friend of mine had a breast reduction a few years ago and she was told to lose at least 20lbs before her surgery and she did.

IMO, when we have a fully privatized health system in Canada (which I hope is never) then Drs can pick and choose who to treat. As long as we're all paying into the system we all have the right to access the system.  Besides, I've had my share of pudgy doctors. Will they get fired if their BMI is outside of a healthy range?




MizSuz -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 3:44:28 PM)

A pulmonologist once told me to quit smoking or not bother to come back.  I didn't bother to go back (and my new pulmonologist is a great guy who gives me good medical care and treats me in a non-judgemental way).

The orthopedic surgeon who rebuilt my shoulder (from a motorcycle accident) told me not to come see him again if I fell on a motorcycle and rebroke my shoulder.  I never had to put it to the test.

I used to have a general practitioner that I asked outright if he had a problem treating me because I raced motorcycles.  His response: "Why?  It's job security for me!"  Gotta love an honest doctor.




Estring -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 3:46:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think they should have the right to treat any patient they want to   treat and refuse to treat those as regular patients they do not want to treat unless it is an emergency situation. Doctors will not treat poor and indigent patients, including uninsured children,  if they do not have to treat the poor, then why make them treat people with self imposed diseases?


And of course doctors opposed to abortions should be able to refuse to do them, right?




farglebargle -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 3:48:29 PM)

This is DIRECTLY tied to Insurance Companies "Pay for Performance" models.

IF you have an overweight patient in your practice, who doesn't lose weight, they will LITERALLY cost your practice money.

So you DUMP all the patients the Insurance Comapnies don't really want serviced.

We need to fix the Insurance Companies.




Estring -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 3:50:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

ok sorry, I missed how you posted it.  What if someone in the US doesn't have insurance, how do they get treated for illnesses?


Here in Southern California, they go to county hospitals. That is why we are having so many hospitals having to shut their doors here. Too many illegal immigrants are bankrupting the system.




popeye1250 -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 3:52:37 PM)

If we could just get doctors to stop treating illegal aliens and Billing the Taxpayers for it through Medicare and other programs we'd probably be able to afford socialized medicine for all U.S. Citizens like Julia said.
I'm in favor of some type of National Healthcare System for all U.S. Citizens too Julia.
If we did away with all those foreign aid programs it would be very doable financially!




Estring -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 4:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

If we could just get doctors to stop treating illegal aliens and Billing the Taxpayers for it through Medicare and other programs we'd probably be able to afford socialized medicine for all U.S. Citizens like Julia said.
I'm in favor of some type of National Healthcare System for all U.S. Citizens too Julia.
If we did away with all those foreign aid programs it would be very doable financially!


I usually agree with you popeye, but why would you want to put such an important thing as healthcare in the hands of the government? They will mismanage and destroy it just as they do everything else they run.
And from wht I have heard, the Canadien health care system is nothing to write home about. For many major procedures, many Canadiens come to the US to have them done anyway. That doesn't say a lot about the worth of their system.
I do agree with the part about illegal aliens though.




juliaoceania -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 4:11:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think they should have the right to treat any patient they want to   treat and refuse to treat those as regular patients they do not want to treat unless it is an emergency situation. Doctors will not treat poor and indigent patients, including uninsured children,  if they do not have to treat the poor, then why make them treat people with self imposed diseases?


And of course doctors opposed to abortions should be able to refuse to do them, right?


Absolutely believe that if a doctor doesn't want to perform an abortion no one could force him, especially since he never probably trained to do them if he didn't want to... that is a little odd to bring up since I haven't come out as for or against abortion... I am prochoice, but not militantly so... I just do not want the government in my body, but why would anyone force another to do something outside their moral sphere? That to me is just silliness to even consider.




SaphireLynn -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 4:14:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think they should have the right to treat any patient they want to   treat and refuse to treat those as regular patients they do not want to treat unless it is an emergency situation. Doctors will not treat poor and indigent patients, including uninsured children,  if they do not have to treat the poor, then why make them treat people with self imposed diseases?


And of course doctors opposed to abortions should be able to refuse to do them, right?


if it against thier beliefs yes I do believe Doctors have a right not to perform abortions... Why should they not to stand on thier beliefs. Besides if the person really wanted an abortion just go to another Dr there are plenty who will perform them.




Level -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 4:35:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

ok sorry, I missed how you posted it.  What if someone in the US doesn't have insurance, how do they get treated for illnesses?


*from the enotes Everyday Law Encyclopedia*
 
"...no patient who arrives in a hospital with an emergency condition will be turned away or transferred unnecessarily. Anyone who shows up in a hospital emergency room will be screened to determine the severity of his or her condition. If the condition is deemed an emergency, the hospital is obligated to stabilize the patient."
 
And:
 
"The hospital has no obligation to the patient if an emergency condition does not exist."
 
As far as I know, this is fact. You might be waiting for hours and hours, but hospitals in the United States are NOT supposed to turn anyone away in an emergency case. For non-emergencies.... it may be a case of "good luck". 




Estring -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 4:44:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think they should have the right to treat any patient they want to   treat and refuse to treat those as regular patients they do not want to treat unless it is an emergency situation. Doctors will not treat poor and indigent patients, including uninsured children,  if they do not have to treat the poor, then why make them treat people with self imposed diseases?


And of course doctors opposed to abortions should be able to refuse to do them, right?


Absolutely believe that if a doctor doesn't want to perform an abortion no one could force him, especially since he never probably trained to do them if he didn't want to... that is a little odd to bring up since I haven't come out as for or against abortion... I am prochoice, but not militantly so... I just do not want the government in my body, but why would anyone force another to do something outside their moral sphere? That to me is just silliness to even consider.


Actually, not so silly. The government has forced doctors to give abortions even though they were morally against them, as well as pharmacies that were forced to sell the morning after pill even though they morally opposed it. At least you are consistent, that was my intention in bringing this up, because many are not consistent.




Arpig -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 5:12:13 PM)

I am not certain, but I believe in Canada a hospital has no right to refuse to treat a person due to obesity or smoking, etc.   If a person id extremely drunk or stoned, to the point of posing a risk to staff, then they can withhold treatment until the person has sobered/straightened up enough to be treatable. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding of it.




windchymes -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 5:13:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

ok sorry, I missed how you posted it.  What if someone in the US doesn't have insurance, how do they get treated for illnesses?


*from the enotes Everyday Law Encyclopedia*
 
"...no patient who arrives in a hospital with an emergency condition will be turned away or transferred unnecessarily. Anyone who shows up in a hospital emergency room will be screened to determine the severity of his or her condition. If the condition is deemed an emergency, the hospital is obligated to stabilize the patient."
 
And:
 
"The hospital has no obligation to the patient if an emergency condition does not exist."
 
As far as I know, this is fact. You might be waiting for hours and hours, but hospitals in the United States are NOT supposed to turn anyone away in an emergency case. For non-emergencies.... it may be a case of "good luck". 


This is true....every patient is entitled to be triaged to determine if a LIFE-THREATENING emergency exists.  If one does (usually possible heart attack, breathing problems, heavy bleeding, woman in active labor, etc.) then the hospital is required by law to treat and stabilize the patient.  For example, if you suffer a stroke, they will admit you and administer medication, run diagnostic tests, etc.  But you will not be given the best in rehabilitative treatment, like speech, physical and occupational therapy, you'll get the bare minimum, if that.  A friend of mine without insurance had a stroke due to a congenital heart defect.  They treated him and he takes a "blood thinner", but they would not do the surgery to repair the heart because it's considered "elective" surgery, and his follow-up treatment was less-than-top quality, to say the least.  But he's doing okay on his Coumadin.

If a woman comes to the hospital in active labor, the hospital is forbidden by law to transfer her to the "county" or charity hospital.  They are obliged to deliver the baby, and stabilize mom and baby.  Once they are stable, they may be transferred.

Most hospitals have "Charity Care" available for indigent or very low income patients with no assets.  There is an application process and it's granted on a percentage based on income.  There are also free clinics that are funded in various ways, either by government grants, philanthropic organizations, and the like, and are usually staffed by volunteers.  One marvelous organization that comes to mind is St. Jude's Children's Hospital in (I think!) Memphis, TN. Treatment is available for all children, those with very serious illnesses and injuries and burns, all at 100% no cost to their families.

When patients receive treatment, they usually must sign a contract saying they are aware that they are responsible for paying the bill.  Most hospitals will put them on a monthy payment plan, even though it might be minimal payments and take years to pay off.  Many hospitals are non-profit, so they do benefit from writing off balances and taking the tax credits.

Most states also have health insurance available for children and pregnant mothers at no cost.  As usual, they don't get the top-notch doctors, but they get what they need, usually.

You do hear horror stories, but these days, hospitals are in so much competition with each other, they don't want the bad publicity they would get from sub-standard care, turning patients away, etc.  It's true that technically, the law does not require hospitals and doctors to treat things like broken bones, minor illnesses, etc.  But most times, they do.   




SirKenin -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 5:19:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I am not certain, but I believe in Canada a hospital has no right to refuse to treat a person due to obesity or smoking, etc.   If a person id extremely drunk or stoned, to the point of posing a risk to staff, then they can withhold treatment until the person has sobered/straightened up enough to be treatable. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding of it.


No, actually Macleans is a Canadian news magazine.  They were reporting on Canadian doctors and surgeons, and the College of Physicians and Surgeons, the governing body, did in fact assert that they were free to do it, that there were no guidelines in place to force them to do otherwise.  One problem that they cited was that there were far more patients than there were doctors who could treat them, allowing the doctors to be picky.

Because the obese, smokers, boozers, etc are so high maintenance, it was stated that it allowed the doctors more billable hours if they simply refused to treat them to begin with.




MistressLorelei -> RE: Doctors refusing to treat the obese, smokers, etc. (8/8/2006 6:09:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think they should have the right to treat any patient they want to   treat and refuse to treat those as regular patients they do not want to treat unless it is an emergency situation. Doctors will not treat poor and indigent patients, including uninsured children,  if they do not have to treat the poor, then why make them treat people with self imposed diseases?


And of course doctors opposed to abortions should be able to refuse to do them, right?


Of course.... no doctor has to do abortions, and most doctor's don't do them.  It's the doctor's who do want to do the abortions but are told they can't who have the problem.

I would love to see a socialistic view regarding health care... the government can afford all sorts of things we don't need, why not use our tax money to pay for everyone to have health care.
quote:

EnglishDomNW

ok sorry, I missed how you posted it.  What if someone in the US doesn't have insurance, how do they get treated for illnesses


If they don't have insurance and can get Medicaid, they do...  but then the Republicans complain about having to pay for the health benifits granted to those (mostly kids)who are on Medicaid.




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