Does there exist (Full Version)

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zenofeller -> Does there exist (8/10/2006 3:09:07 AM)

a real manual for emergency intervention geared for BDSM activities ?

now before we go to wiseman's article, i don't mean an article. i mean a manual. this thing would be hundreds of pages long, and list, in detail, what to do, how and why, when. the equivalent of the paramedic's blue book, except with a BDSM focus. no psychobabble and drama, just hard facts, systematically presented, complete and wrote by someone at least competent in the field.

so does anyone know of something like that ? if not, what's your safety bible ?



AnAtlantaDom -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 4:22:33 AM)

Plain common sense & plenty of communication with the sub/slave, absolutely no drugs during a scene. 



MrrPete -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 5:22:40 AM)

No alcohol either



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 6:30:32 AM)

LOL and I willingly break both the "no drugs" and "no alcohol" rules.

And I'm certainly not alone.

NCSF and most large bdsm conventions usually include a few safety specific courses given specifically to answer this question- what to do when the wrong stuff happens.  But there's no manual or list of rights and wrongs- it's always how best to manage the risks and deal with problems when they come up.



MstrssPassion -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 7:04:00 AM)

I agree with AnAtlantaDom

Common sense & plenty of communication.

There aren't any books that are going to tell you what to do when a scene goes wrong.

Best advice, don't take on a scene that you have no experience in handling. If you do engage in activities outside your own comfort zone, do so with someone around that does & who has proved that they are capable of such activities.

LA, plenty of people have come at you in the past about your admission to playing while under the influence, I'm not going to, nor do I wish to debate this subject with you or anyone else... what I will say is that because some people do, it should never be promoted as an ok thing to do, especially in a case when someone is already asking what is the best way to resolve a scene when it goes wrong. Being inexperienced with handling a scene combined with being under the influence could cause a bad situation to be all that much more dangerous. In this case I would advise that people have 911 & their attorney's phone number on speed dial as well.




Elegant -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 7:11:03 AM)

Catherine Gross has written a Safety Manual that is available for Download at http://www.bdsmclasses.com/ . It focuses more on specific play activities but does offer some good advise and guidelines.




darkinshadows -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 7:12:23 AM)

There are many books out there on many topics - take your pick.  As for one single bible, one single book of 'how to'... nope, nor will there be because it is impossible to list every fetish, complaint, problem that anyone has ever come up against.
 
Even if there was, it wouldn't matter.  Because each person is different - acts and reacts differently.  All the manuals in the world isn't going to change that.
 
Trust yourself, trust your partner and be aware of the risks and be ready for them.  And accept the responsibility when you fuck up.
 
Peace and Rapture



saltygoodness27 -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 7:13:45 AM)

Ironically enough, Jay Wiseman did publish a small book called: The Toybag Guide to Dungeon Emergencies and Supplies
It's not comprehensive, because I don't know that one book could be.  But being Wiseman, it covers as many bases as it can. 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 7:17:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion
what I will say is that because some people do, it should never be promoted as an ok thing to do, especially in a case when someone is already asking what is the best way to resolve a scene when it goes wrong. Being inexperienced with handling a scene combined with being under the influence could cause a bad situation to be all that much more dangerous. In this case I would advise that people have 911 & their attorney's phone number on speed dial as well.

I agree, that would be as foolish as suggesting that bondage is an ok thing for everyone to do.  But I do think there's nothing inherently wrong about it and support education and managing risks, rather than simply no tolerance.



KnightofMists -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 8:42:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

IBest advice, don't take on a scene that you have no experience in handling. If you do engage in activities outside your own comfort zone, do so with someone around that does & who has proved that they are capable of such activities.



this is rather silly.... should the virgin never have sex because they have no experience in handling the scene.  Should the Top/bottom newbie not engage in BDSM because they have no experiene in handling the scene.

I would suggest that a person informs themselves to the best of their ability before they engage in an activity they have no experience in.  I would also suggest that one stays within their comfort zone.  This is not to mean that one will not be nervously excited. 
but that is a far cry different from being in a state of panic or neverously scared.



Evanesce -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 9:33:36 AM)

quote:

if not, what's your safety bible ?


It's called the Kaptin and I both got ourselves certified in CPR and first aid so we know how to stabilize someone until emergency help can arrive.  It was a rather interesting class the first time, as we all dug through our toybags to find items that could be used in first aid. 



MstrssPassion -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 10:08:42 AM)

sure it is silly but you are off topic

the OP asked about an safety manual for what I assume would explain to the reader what to do if a scene goes wrong or what not to do so a scene won't go wrong... I offered sound advice... common sense, communication & having someone on hand that is experienced when attempting something that you are inexperienced in... big difference between doing a scene that may require emergency attention & having sex the first time... but then again, if horned up people actually communicated more & used common sense a lot more kids would hold off on their first sexual experience & this might spare them a horrible outcome as well (i.e. unwanted pregnancy, STD's, date rape, shame, ruined reputation, etc)

I was fortunate enough to have people I could look to in order to gain experience with "riskier types of play". I observed certain activities many times before attempting to do so myself. When the time came that I was interested in attempting some of these activities, I contacted a few Masters that I would like to learn from & those that were interested in offering instruction got back to me.

For example... a cutting scene. There is no way I would ever suggest someone pick up a book & proceed with cutting their partner based on the abc's & 123's wrote in a book. In this case it would be foolish for novices to proceed.

Novices need to work at gaining experience & this takes time... BDSM & the extremes involved are not best learned if one jumps in the deep side of the pool without even knowing how to doggie-paddle. Novices also need to know that even the milder activities can have a negative outcome. The best way to really understand these things & learn them properly is by first hand observation. A book can only reveal certain things & what if what you really need to know now is on page 125 & you are only on page 50? Do we tell the medical examiner, well if I had taken that speed reading course in the 9th grade maybe she wouldn't be dead now.

How many times do we see written here that new subs are afraid to question what is happening because they are made to feel that questions are disrespectful?  Having a real time support network is still the best way to handle certain things... it's a darn shame that the real time communities have fractured to the point that politics now rule & honest to goodness support, for the most part, has gone the way of the dinosaurs.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 10:34:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion
but then again, if horned up people actually communicated more & used common sense a lot more kids would hold off on their first sexual experience & this might spare them a horrible outcome as well (i.e. unwanted pregnancy, STD's, date rape, shame, ruined reputation, etc)

All of your horrible outcomes have nothing to do with communication or even really common sense- they are serious health and criminal issues.

I think if people EDUCATED themselves more, they'd be less likely to have to deal with those outcomes, but that it has nothing to do with postponing a first experience, except perhaps that the longer they wait, the more time they are given to educate themselves.

However, most evidence suggests that people who practice abstinence long term withOUT the support of safe sex education are more likely to NOT engage in safe sex practices or be aware of the risks when they DO decide to become sexually active. 

It's education that makes the difference- not time.



thetammyjo -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 10:44:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

a real manual for emergency intervention geared for BDSM activities ?

now before we go to wiseman's article, i don't mean an article. i mean a manual. this thing would be hundreds of pages long, and list, in detail, what to do, how and why, when. the equivalent of the paramedic's blue book, except with a BDSM focus. no psychobabble and drama, just hard facts, systematically presented, complete and wrote by someone at least competent in the field.

so does anyone know of something like that ? if not, what's your safety bible ?


A single book or document? No.

First get first aid training.

Second you can read any of the following to help in my opinion. Note there are much more specific activity books and articles out there.

Erotic Bondage Handbook by Jay Wiseman

Flogging by Joseph W. Bean

SM 101: A Realistic Introduction by Jay Wiseman

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism by Philip Miller and Molly Devon

On the Safe Edge: A Manual for SM Play by Trevor Jacques




KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 1:37:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
LOL and I willingly break both the "no drugs" and "no alcohol" rules.
And I'm certainly not alone.


I used to play with a girl who shared my fondness for good red wine.  Before we would play we might have a bottle or two between us. 
Now, I don't know of any actual studies on the subject, but fifteen minutes of good warmup burned off any buzz I began with, so I'm not sure I see the problem with anything as long as you don't get stupid about it.



mnottertail -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 1:40:03 PM)

If you could see the stains on my mattress from wine, hotchocolate and piss.......(couple of cigar burns there too)

LOLOL.

Ron



zenofeller -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 1:42:30 PM)

right.

salty, good work, it's surprising nobody seems to know or use the toybag guide.
elegant, it's a step in the right direction, but it's very bird's eye.

now dark, i disagree. such a book can be written.

it's like saying there can't be a paramedic blue book, nor should it be, because there's so much variation in the situations they need to intervene. good judgement. common sense.

bullshit.

you need a blue book. the BDSM community needs a blue book. common sense takes time. judgement takes time. in an emergency, there's one single thing in short supply. TIME.

the community needs to get together and write this book. there are hundreds of doctors and medical nurses in the lifestyle, two or three of the better ones need to write the blue book.

it would do alot for the practitioners, and it would do alot more. it would be one great step towards social acceptance.



stef -> RE: Does there exist (8/10/2006 1:56:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

you need a blue book.

No, I really don't.

~stef



KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Does there exist (8/11/2006 8:31:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
you need a blue book. the BDSM community needs a blue book. common sense takes time. judgement takes time. in an emergency, there's one single thing in short supply. TIME.
the community needs to get together and write this book. there are hundreds of doctors and medical nurses in the lifestyle, two or three of the better ones need to write the blue book.
it would do alot for the practitioners, and it would do alot more. it would be one great step towards social acceptance.


Well, between instruction by the military and/or  The Red Cross, I'd say the average person with inclination can get pretty well prepared without a specialty manual.

And "a step towards social acceptance?" 
(I'll skip asking about over application of recreational pharmacology, or what color the sky is on your planet is this morning)
What it would do, would be to "show beyond doubt, that even the perverts know they are a danger and menace to society and need to be regulated like dangerous animals and large caliber semi-automatic firearms."

Of course, the net effect of such social bruhaha would amount to zip, but let's be real about how such a move would be portrayed. 
So, if you see the need....  Fill the need. 

It always gets my dander up when somebody feels the urgent need for others to commit time, energy, and hard work, for the pet project that they have such lofty hopes for. . . .  But are unwilling to invest with their OWN effort.



Homestead -> RE: Does there exist (8/11/2006 8:48:14 AM)

Many people seem to like to have manuals to tell them what to do-gor is an example of this.

Common sense and a knowledge of anatomy, basic medical first aid proceedures, etc...should rule. And learning first hand from someone competent. I think a manual would give a false sense of security to people that should be doing the above instead.



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