RE: Does there exist (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 12:43:57 PM)

I am with Evil.

But the thing about choking and hand signals, I had to laugh.

No one goes sweetly into that goodnight!!!

Ron







EvilGeoff -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 12:53:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

orly. how are ropes to be cut off then ? towards the skin ? insert blade between body and rope ? what if there's no room ? burn them ? common sense is this thing that doesn't exist.

EMT's use safety shears.  No room?  Then you tied the ropes too damn tight to begin with.  Duh.  If you don't own a pair of EMT shears, spend the dinero and get some. They cut through rope, leather, canvas, denim... 

If someone doesn't have the sense to buy or create their own decent first aid kit, or play with someone who doesn't have one, I'm enough of a social Darwinist to thank them for removing themselves from the gene pool if things go horribly wrong..

YIK,
- Geoff



zenofeller -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 12:55:23 PM)

you keep calling it "sense". it's not sense, common or otherwise. it's information. it belongs collected, in a book. enough already.



stef -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 1:21:53 PM)

So write the book already since you're the one who sees such a dire need for it.

~stef



EvilGeoff -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 1:26:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

you keep calling it "sense". it's not sense, common or otherwise. it's information. it belongs collected, in a book. enough already.


There are already dozens of "How-To" books for kinksters on the market, Zen, including safety and first aid how-to's.  If they (the "ones-without-information" since you don't like the term "sense") aren't already reading what information is already available to them out there, what in the world makes you think they are going to read the "Great Big Huge Blue Book of Every Kinky Situation, Every Possible Kinky Injury, How To Avoid Those Injuries, And How To Treat Them" ? ? ?

Truly, the world does not need another 600 page desk reference that is going to sit on the shelf and gather dust, even if it is a kink specific reference.  What the world needs are more people intelligent enough to gather the information that is already available to them and the determination to ferret it out.  Yes, the Great Big Kinky Blue Book  would be useful to those of us already inclined to use such information.  But it will do nothing, absolutely nothing at all, for those who can't be bothered to educate themselves. 

We have entirely to many lazy people who are used to getting entirely too much information (or mis-information) just given to them freely.  LOOK for information?  Oh My Gawd, what a concept!  Use Google?  What's that?  There's a SEARCH function here at Collarme?  How do I do that?  Read a book? A BOOK? As in go to Books-a-Million or Barnes & Noble, or Amazon.com or Greenery Press, or Mystic Rose Books, or Daedalus Publishing and order a real, print on paper BOOK?  That I have to turn pages and maybe spend hours or days reading???   Can't I please, pretty please get it distilled into 3 paragraphs so I can become CyberStudlyDom or ubersubbyslave right NOW?...

Please feel free to compile and create the Next Big Kinky Cultural Break-through.  Or find someone with the time and energy who wants to create it.  I'm sure there's a market for it.  But please don't kid yourself into believing that it's breaking any new ground, pushing forward any frontiers, anymore than the Encylopedia Brittanica does.  It'll just be another handy-dandy reference guide for those of us who already use handy-dandy reference guides.

YIK,
- Geoff



zenofeller -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 1:34:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff
There are already dozens of "How-To" books for kinksters on the market, Zen, including safety and first aid how-to's.  If they (the "ones-without-information" since you don't like the term "sense") aren't already reading what information is already available to them out there, what in the world makes you think they are going to read the "Great Big Huge Blue Book of Every Kinky Situation, Every Possible Kinky Injury, How To Avoid Those Injuries, And How To Treat Them" ? ? ?

no contest, there are plenty of pamphlets. would you buy 50 booklets at 10 bucks each, throw out half and doubt half of the rest, or buy a good one for 100 and be done with the matter entirely ?
quote:


Truly, the world does not need another 600 page desk reference that is going to sit on the shelf and gather dust, even if it is a kink specific reference.  What the world needs are more people intelligent enough to gather the information that is already available to them and the determination to ferret it out.  Yes, the Great Big Kinky Blue Book  would be useful to those of us already inclined to use such information.  But it will do nothing, absolutely nothing at all, for those who can't be bothered to educate themselves. 

no contest. but what it will allow, is the neutral judge faced with a bdsm case to look at this bdsm thingy in a way he is used to, ie, take up the reference, and be impressed with the solidity of it, instead of looking at a bucket of noisy pamphlets and web articles and wave his hand. along these lines i see how such a big book can do alot for social acceptance. it proves we're serious, we're sane, and we're actually able to contribute to this world, in a way others can use.
quote:


We have entirely to many lazy people who are used to getting entirely too much information (or mis-information) just given to them freely.  LOOK for information?  Oh My Gawd, what a concept!  Use Google?  What's that?  There's a SEARCH function here at Collarme?  How do I do that?  Read a book? A BOOK? As in go to Books-a-Million or Barnes & Noble, or Amazon.com or Greenery Press, or Mystic Rose Books, or Daedalus Publishing and order a real, print on paper BOOK?  That I have to turn pages and maybe spend hours or days reading???   Can't I please, pretty please get it distilled into 3 paragraphs so I can become CyberStudlyDom or ubersubbyslave right NOW?...

google is no source of critical information. pop culture is not culture. wikipedia is a reference, but no serious reference. it s an online encyclopedia, but not an ecyclopedia. so, while it may do nothing for your average add afflicted adult, there's nothing that's gonna be much use to that guy anyway.
quote:


Please feel free to compile and create the Next Big Kinky Cultural Break-through.  Or find someone with the time and energy who wants to create it.  I'm sure there's a market for it.  But please don't kid yourself into believing that it's breaking any new ground, pushing forward any frontiers, anymore than the Encylopedia Brittanica does.  It'll just be another handy-dandy reference guide for those of us who already use handy-dandy reference guides.

the first encyclopedia was ground breaking and it did push fronteers. just the notion that everything we know is collected, cared for and never going to be lost again means alot. there's a humble side of adding culture, hidden in the libraries, keeping books sorted, hunchback and boring. but essential.



EvilGeoff -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 2:29:33 PM)

Obviously we have a difference of definition when it comes to defining books.... I own hundreds.  Many of them kink related.  I think the thinnest kink book I own is The Topping Book by Dossie Easton and Catherine Liszt at 158 pages before it hits the "Resources" section.  Hardly a "pamphlet".  Not to mention a more academic tome like Different Loving by Brame, Brame, and Jacobs, or Health Care Without Shame: A Handbook for the Sexually Diverse and Their Caregivers by Charles Moser, PhD, MD or Sex Disasters (And How To Survive Them) by Charles Moser, PhD, MD and Janet Hardy.  Not exactly "pamphlets" by any stretch of the imagination.

And while judges like resources, it's JURIES  more often than not, that have to be convinced in criminal cases.  And unless The Manual Of How-To is entered into evidence, it will be irrelevant.  And even if the The Manual does, somehow, become a vanilla acceptable resource, acceptable for use at trial, it just means that if someone does play "off the book" (and that will still be a lot of people) that they would be screwed.  Because they didn't do it "by the book".  Thank you, but no.

I want my case tried on it's individual merits, not on the basis of somebody else's idea of "How Things Should Be Done".  That's nothing but a camoflaged One True Way-ism.  Screw that noise.  My scenes are MY scenes, works of cooperative art and pleasure, created on the fly between me and my partner(s).  They are not something written up in a book and never will be.

First aid is one thing, and it's already been done.  Thank you to the folks who help us fix our boo-boos! But I am definitely not getting behind a book that would supposedly tell the legal system what's okay between me and my play partner(s) beyond "they were aware of the risks, took steps to minimize the chances of injury or harm occuring, they were adults and they all gave informed, free, consent".  ?

And I don't even need a full pamphlet to write that up.

YIK,
- Geoff



zenofeller -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:04:10 PM)

you're turning things into what they aren't. you are not at liberty to agree or disagree with medical realities about the human body. whatever you may think you are entitled to practice is soundly subsumed by what people mistakenly call "common sense", but which really is knowledge of the human body. that knowledge is currently implicit, and it would be beneficial to have it explicit. that way, rather than an obtruse and only obvious in retrospect common sense, we'd have transparent and always usefull common knowledge.



mnottertail -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:16:08 PM)

how is it implicit rather than explicit? you make distinctions that contain no difference.

you have been given the title of a tome or two, and realistically, doctors kill more people per month than dead drunk drivers do. In fact, more than all alchohol ' related'.  Those of us here, who have been doing nasty shit to people longer than you have been alive, tell you that such a book is unnecessary, unwanted, undoable and unwarrented. 

I agree with stef; if this is such a big fucking grail, write the son-of-a-bitch, get it published and I will buy it as a quaint book in a discount-store in ages hence. 

Just because we shouldn't be in Iraq, doesn't mean we are not, it is what it is.

You will not find the support for this trivial ideal on this venue, or any other; I will wager.

Many things should be done, but the world is such that they will not be, this is an idea that is  lost to the ages before it has even reached travail, and will never be considered by  anthropologists or  archeologists in the yet unwritten history of the world.

Just too lame,
Ron





zenofeller -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:30:54 PM)

the distinction between implicit and explicit contains no difference, doctors kill people and i should somehow take you seriously.



mnottertail -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:36:59 PM)

don't take me serious I don't give the glimmer of a fuck. I did not say that there is no distinction between implicit and explicit.

My point about doctors stands.

You only look for arguement in the smartass sense. You did not read a post to respond to, or take issue with my stance.  You only take issue.

Ron



zenofeller -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:41:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
how is it implicit rather than explicit? you make distinctions that contain no difference.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I did not say that there is no distinction between implicit and explicit.


sure i take issue, if there were an actual stance to take issue with, i'd maybe take issue with it, but as it is, the "stance" changes as fast as to be a blur. so i just take issue. to the blur.



MistressSassy66 -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:41:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

I've been waiting the better part of a decade for someone to show me a single documented case of death by TENS unit. Nobody has yet, but still they perpetuate the myth.



2 submissives I know are EMT's....They do not reccomend using it near the heart.
I think I would have to err on the side of caution and believe them...Afterall its better safe than dead.
Perhaps you know someone who is willing to try it out?

I wonder if Mythbusters would take that as a challange??



AnAtlantaDom -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:47:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

I've been waiting the better part of a decade for someone to show me a single documented case of death by TENS unit. Nobody has yet, but still they perpetuate the myth.



2 submissives I know are EMT's....They do not reccomend using it near the heart.

Perhaps you know someone who is willing to try it out?



Step up zennofella, give it a try & let the rest of us know.



mnottertail -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 5:54:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
so i just take issue. to the blur.


I am forced to agree by your own words and dint of your logic that you take issue just to take issue, and your thought process is blurred at best.

Done!!!! By God, you win that argument hands down, I concede that this is a syllogism. No, beyond that-- it is a a fuckin' lemma.

Ron
(you ain't clever enough to quote out of context, if you want to have a discussion of diametrically opposed views, I am your man. Else, let us of  gentler minds give way.  I am a man and own a sack,  go ye and do likewise, do not do as the wizards do that peep and mutter........)



BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 6:05:59 PM)

The cautions that come with a TENS are:
 
Do not use if you have a heart condition, pacemaker, or epilepsy.
 
Do not use on inflamed or infected skin.
 
Do not use while pregnant. ( It bears mentioning that they now DO use it while pregnant, and on the abdomen, no less! )
 
Do not use on the head.
 
Do not place on neck near cartoid.
 
Do not use in water.
 
 
Furthermore, physical therapists are given no cautions about placing the pads over the heart. They get no training concerning this whatsoever, because there isn't enough muscle covering the sternum for them to need to deal with. The are taught that electrostim is useful for pectoral pain relief though, which is very close to the heart. The also use then to treat a variety of back pains, including mid and upper back pain. They are given no cautions concerning cardiac problems, but are instructed to use the device on a setting that is comfortable for the patient.



mnottertail -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 6:16:38 PM)

if you are a pt person, do you do alotta tens on people with heart conditions that need work in the pectoral area?

Seriously,

Ron

(I gotta believe that some of this is certainly sticking beans in your nose, but I don't want to have to explain it to a doctor at 52 years of age)

Did you follow, BA?





MistressSassy66 -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 6:26:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

The cautions that come with a TENS are:
 
Do not use if you have a heart condition, pacemaker, or epilepsy.
 
Do not use on inflamed or infected skin.
 
Do not use while pregnant. ( It bears mentioning that they now DO use it while pregnant, and on the abdomen, no less! )
 
Do not use on the head.
 
Do not place on neck near cartoid.
 
Do not use in water.
 
 



Okay...so it doesnt say dont use on the heart on the instructions.
It does mention heart condition...some one might not know they have a heart condition.Are you willing to take the chance to find out?
Dont use on head...okay well that to Me means it could hurt your brain maybe??
And if can do that through your skull...what is it going to do to your heart.
Dont use on neck...another indication it can be harmful.
My Rimba also mentions not using it on bony areas as SOME people may have pain.Kinda boney on the chest area....

Again...I wouldnt risk it.But please feel free and let us know how it works out for ya.



mnottertail -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 6:38:59 PM)

MS66--

'Cause you seem reasonable........there were some kids on here (early twenties, I got shoes older than them) that were into sticking ice cubes up their asses.......had to be subs I spose.........

I am quite rightly (I think) stern with them, saying you shouldn't be doing that alot, if ever.........

Their reply, what is the big deal?

Well, I can see that somehow, but if you were to shove an ice cube up 100-200 people in their 40's and 50's....how many would cakk?

100? 10? 1?  somebody is gonna get the big cholesterol flake coming off the veins to stop the heart when that shit coagulates.......I don't want to be  hanging out in attica with a bunch of motherfuckers and when we all get to swapping stories.........what did you do Ron?

People are going to have to learn to come safe somehow.  I am not the man I was 20 years ago in any facet of my life.  Hell, I ain't even the man I was last week........

But I am preaching to the choir.......you are realistic.

How you gonna put that in the chapter book zeno? What cross index does that fall under?

Ron



zenofeller -> RE: Does there exist (8/12/2006 6:51:55 PM)

under rambling incoherent, alcohol induced thought disorder, realistically.



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