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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:26:20 AM   
Chaingang


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Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		EnglishDomNW:

Don't you realize that popeye1250's sources are unassailable? Shut your mouth!

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:29:22 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Chaingang, I'm neither a "right-winger" nor am I "living in fear."
As for CNN watch Lou Dobbs on CNN who comes on at 6 pm (1800 hrs) every weekday night.
Week after week he pounds away at Bush's and the government's policies.
But, I like him because he has one thing severely lacking in Washington, D.C. - common sense!
If he ever decides to run for President I'd surely vote for him!
I'm an Independant voter ("Un-Declared") that means I can give the Left-Wingers and Right-Wingers BOTH hell!

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:30:26 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Rule, pay attention!
My grandparents were "Immigrants" who came here *LEGALLY* from Ireland.
The 20-30 million ILLEGAL ALIENS in this country did *NOT* come here legally.
Apples and oranges!

Yeah, and pears and bananas. I do not give a fuck about fruity distinctions. We had immigrations laws in The Netherlands before World War II and we sent all the jews who were trying to escape from Germany back to Germany - and the USA and most other countries did the same thing. Immigration laws are an excuse for genocide, it is as simple as that.
 

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:34:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Having seen the devastation being caused by the U.S. in Iraq from many, many sources I have my own sense of what has to be true.


Chain,
Maybe that's the problem. Are you using Reuters for your visual sense? Seems like they do some "enhancing" and "expansion" in their visuals. Like the death count from those links you provided.

And how about that. That other bastion of "right wing" news CBS is also mentioned. I'd forgotten about the faked memo. Perhaps you need to expand your 'sense' sources.

quote:


This Reuters photograph shows blatant evidence of manipulation. Notice the repeating patterns in the smoke; this is almost certainly caused by using the Photoshop “clone” tool to add more smoke to the image. (Hat tip: Mike.)
It’s so incredibly obvious, it reminds me of the faked CBS memos. Smoke simply does not contain repeating symmetrical patterns like this, and you can see the repetition in both plumes of smoke. There’s really no question about it.
But it’s not only the plumes of smoke that were “enhanced.” There are also cloned buildings.
Link to Pictures and story: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21956_Reuters_Doctoring_Photos_from_Beirut&only

Commentary on this issue from the Boston Herald (Another "right wing" mouth-piece! )
quote:

Hezbollah also knows that people see what they want to see. That would explain why, as these blogs and others have pointed out, different news photographers who arrived at Qana hours apart, have similar photos of the same bodies being carried out of the wreckage and loaded onto ambulances. Photos of the dead are important. People around the world need to know about the realities of war, no matter how they feel about the justification of a particular war. In America, police, medics and firefighters usually shield the dead from the view of news cameras whenever possible. But it would appear that Hezbollah, or worse, Lebanese rescue workers, decided the best use of a dead child was to be dragged around for propaganda purposes.
Source: http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=152077&srvc=home



< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 8/10/2006 11:43:22 AM >

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:36:03 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I dont see how controlling immigration is a rocky road to genocide?

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:40:23 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I dont see how controlling immigration is a rocky road to genocide?



Don't bother Rule. He is in fantasyland eating ice cream.

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:44:35 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I dont see how controlling immigration is a rocky road to genocide?

Have you studied genocides?

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:47:39 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I dont see how controlling immigration is a rocky road to genocide?

Have you studied genocides?


You mean like the Holocaust? And the intent to wipe out Israel by Iran and it's puppet Hezbollah? 

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:51:10 AM   
madsub


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/10/2006
Status: offline 		This is my first ever post in a CM forum, so please excuse any breach of protocol.

At the 2001 Census (the latest one taken in the UK) 1,588,890 people or 2.8% of the total population identified themselves as Muslim.  The source quoting 2 million fundamentalists in the UK must be mistaken. 
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=954

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:52:04 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I dont see how controlling immigration is a rocky road to genocide?

Have you studied genocides?


You mean like the Holocaust? And the intent to wipe out Israel by Iran and it's puppet Hezbollah? 

I mean all genocides ever.

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:52:39 AM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lorelei, more than 90% of Americans agree with you there!
It is very obvious that "islam" and "The West" just don't and can't mix.
Time to start calling our senators and congressmen and don't "ask" them but "TELL" them to end all immigration and to start "ENFORCING" our immigration laws strictly!
We have somewhere between 20 million and 30 million people in our country who need to LEAVE!

I don't want to send everyone with lives here home; I don't want to fight islamic nations.  Every terrorist does not practice islam, nor is every islam a terrorist.... that's just silly. 

The US needs to secure the homeland and secure safety for its citizens and to those it has shipped out overseas.  Instead, it cuts homeland security where it is needed, makes our borders an easier target, and funds a pointless war where our soldiers are improperly equipped, yet sent to battle.

Islam and the west can mix... It's terrorists (including some government leaders, such as our own) and the west, which can't mix.... some people just can't seem to distinguish between islam and terrorists. 
quote:



ORIGINAL: Estring

Finally, something we agree on. The borders need to be secured. Part of the problem is if you suggest that, especially here in Los Angeles, you are called a racist, and anti- Latino.
People need to understand that in securing the borders, we would be protecting everyone, regardless of race, religion, etc. These terrorists don't even care about killing fellow Muslims, who would think that they would care what race you as an American are?



Yes, finally, we agree... sort of anyway.  I don't see how it can be considered racist to want to secure our borders by not inviting people in, when we can't control the chaos going on here already.

If the US would focus its attention and money on the US, and securing the safety of those who are paying for everything, we'd be in a lot better position all around.  Secure homeland safety, get a functional immigration system... then perhaps we can invite people over.  The cost of the war alone would have paid for a whole lot of security.... and so many young lives would have been spared.

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/10/2006 12:09:02 PM >

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 11:59:22 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I know an awful lot about the holocaust and nazi Germany. Immigration had nothing to do with nazi views of Jewry - the Jews had been in Germany (and across all of Europe) for centuries, and in Germany as in few other places were integrated well into society long since. Had the Jews arrived in Germany 50 years prior, then OK immigration could be linked to the holocaust, but as things were it cannot. Now, if you mean by immigration the settlement of an alien population in a country then I could start to see a link. The settlement of the Jews in Germany for centuries though is distanced from their immigration centuries before. Overall though, the nazi holocaust was the juncture of many things, but not immigration.

Apart from that, how does immigration explain the genocides in Kampuchea or those happening now in Burma?

E


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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 12:03:38 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmmm,

Many of the alleged terror plotters appeared to be of Pakistani descent. It appears that they were probably "homegrown" terrorists with strong links to al Qaeda and Pakistani operatives. This new generation of terrorists have figured significantly in plots in the U.S., London and Canada in recent months.
 
What exactly does "it appears that they were probably" mean? Not exactly a cast iron factual statement is it. Also, as details have not been released to the public yet how does anyone outside of the intelligence services know they are linked al-quaeda.

They just said on the news that Britain has "2 million Islamic Fundamentalists who are *openly hostile* to authorities and British society."
WTF! Most of them it said "immigrated" illegally.
 
There are only just 2 million muslims in Britain so whichever news source this is they must be quality - are you sure this source is not "Popeye's Little Book of Homemade Statistics"?. Also, if most of them are here illegally how do we know they are hostile to Britain? What happened - did they have a chat over a cup of tea while they coughed to the authorities that they were hostile to Britain and then the authorities didn't bother to deport these illegal immigrants and just sent them back into society?

Well done for the linking this to the illegal immigrants issue in the US when this has absolutely nothing to with illegal immigration or the US. The suggestion is that all 21 were British - born and bred in this country - so bang goes your little illegal immigration argument.

Regards



 

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 12:22:28 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		I was not referring to German immigration laws, but to the immigration laws like those of the USA that denied the jews refuge from the genocide. It is a repeating pattern: whenever there is a genocide in one country all other countries have immigration laws that they use as an excuse to refuse refuge to the people who are trying to escape from the genocide.

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 12:29:00 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I was not referring to German immigration laws, but to the immigration laws like those of the USA that denied the jews refuge from the genocide. It is a repeating pattern: whenever there is a genocide in one country all other countries have immigration laws that they use as an excuse to refuse refuge to the people who are trying to escape from the genocide.


There's genocide occurring in the countries of origin; Mexico, South America, Pakistan, and other Muslim controlled countries? The UN should do something don't you think? Like they are doing in Darfur, and Tibet where genocide really is occurring?

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 12:33:42 PM   
LotusSong


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Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rook42

and we are not eating their puppies.



I dunno.. I had  moo-goo-gie-pup last night and pup-sicle for dessert...

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 12:39:31 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Mercnbeth:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

Speaks for itself and it's been covered here before. Sure, major media has screwed the pooch a few times on both sides - but beyond BBC that leaves almost no objective sources. And maybe there aren't any truly objective sources, but I still think the news I have received from numerous sources is tolerably accurate because it is measured and not just towing some party line.

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 12:40:09 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		OK - I see that - so immigration is not a cause of genocide then. Controlling immigration to the UK (for instance) does not produce genocide elsewhere. If genocide is occurring elsewhere then the persecuted have right of refuge in the next nearest safe country - if that is the UK then so be it and I would welcome them as asylum seekers (not illegal immigrants, there is a difference). However they generally come to the UK regardless of whether we are next nearest safe country. Last time I saw a map, we were not neighbours to Somalia for example.

Our problem in the UK though is that we have not only illegals coming here but also a lot of asylum seekers who are nothing of the sort, but rather are fleeing "persecution" for being religious nutters in their own countries. We have hundreds of terrorists we welcomed as asylum seekers when they fled France because the French cracked down on them. They came here, radicalised British Muslims and now we have these problems. They are not asylum seekers, they are criminals.

They also give genuine asylum seekers and genuine immigrants a bad press.
E


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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 12:54:04 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

And maybe there aren't any truly objective sources,


Chain,
No argument with this statement. I can't provide an opinion of the BBC. I have an English accent disability. It hurts my head to translate it into a my NYC bred American accented brain. I think my love of Monty Python is mostly based upon the sight gags.

Assume the source reporting is biased regardless if you agree with the position or not and you'll have a better opportunity to form a personal opinion versus a media generated opinion. Even those representing neutrality insert personal bias. You have to be conscience (or paranoid) of it but it's there. For instance next time you watch two people on opposite sides debate listen as to how they are introduced. Is one a columnist or author with no other adjective and the other has a "right/left" or "conservative/liberal" added to their intro?  It would sound like; "Hello, on this program we will hear from Bob Smith of the London Times discussing today's airport arrests with Mary Jones, conservative author." It's subliminal, but it indicates the leaning of the moderator and/or the network.

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RE: British foil bomb plot? - 8/10/2006 1:11:23 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
There's genocide occurring in the countries of origin; Mexico, South America, Pakistan, and other Muslim controlled countries?

There will be. Besides, the Middle and South America's have been a slaughter house ever since the end of the Second World War.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The UN should do something don't you think? Like they are doing in Darfur, and Tibet where genocide really is occurring?

The UN is doing something about it in Darfur and Tibet? Seriously?
Merc, I still own this huge steel structure in Paris, 300 metres tall the last time I measured. The view is great from up there: you can see half way to Darfur! What say you take it off my hands? I can let you have for a relatively cheap price. I am sure your bank will extend a mortgage.
 

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/10/2006 1:12:21 PM >

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