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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/20/2006 1:45:29 PM

JHLuvsfeet

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Hello again...

Hey Lord... You honestly think I started this thread to piss people off? "Everyone else sucks and I'm so much more open-minded?" Give me a break.

I've been in enough forums over the years to know that there is a group dynamic, people you look forward to reading what they have to share or comment on, people you have a kinship with and more. Yes, when someone new joins the group and makes remarks like mine, I can see the where you might go on the defensive, HOWEVER, I never singled out THIS FORUM, did I? I asked about the lifestyle itself, just like any other lifestyle or subculture, as someone pointed out, and that I've experienced the underlying cliquishness of any groups over the years. And it usually extends more to using the correct terminology on things within that group, which might be new to someone just entering it.

AGAIN, I NEVER targeted this group or forum. That would be stupid... which I am not, thank you.

Sinergy, I like the angle you are coming from. It might amuse you to know that I actually read "Death of the West" by Pat Buchannan followed by "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore, to try and see if there was any middle ground between them... so I know what you mean about finding balance between things which are diametrically opposed to one another. Perhaps it's why I chose to label myself a "switch" when I really don't know yet?

Geoff, Thanks for the welcome as well. I know what you mean about circles of friends not seeing themselves as set apart from others at times. I too have many friendly acquaintences (never meeting a stranger in public), but use the word friend sparingly and regard it as something very rare. I hate when people say, "My friend this, or my friend that..." when they are merely referring to someone they casually know or even by proxy.

To everyone else, thank you also for the feedback (all of it). I told you, "I claim to know nothing..."

(in reply to SusanofO)

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/20/2006 3:15:50 PM

juliaoceania

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Welcome to the boards, I did not take personal offense to your comments, but then again I do not see myself as a part of a clique...perhaps many of us do not see ourselves as part of one?

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/20/2006 3:30:24 PM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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Hello JH and welcome, I enjoyed reading the thread you began here and the various replies.
Regards from someone who's never been *cool enough* to belong anywhere......grin.

agirl

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/20/2006 5:33:44 PM

JHLuvsfeet

Posts: 17
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Hello agirl...

So it was YOU that Gwen Steffani was singing about all those years ago when she became a big star? LOL!

As for never beeing *cool enough* to fit in... If it's any consolation... even though a am African lion may be king of the
jungle and one of the dealiest animals in the world, did you ever see what happens when it comes up against an angry mother elephant? For that matter, the common mosquito is actually the #1 insect repsonsible for deaths the world over.

The point I'm trying to make here is... you definitely belong... we all do... maybe just not when we are out of our element? Glad to see you here too : )

PS - Abraham Lincoln once wrote, "God must love the common man, he made so many of them." LOL! I always thought that line was funny, especially when someone ever thinks of themselves as common. Pax.

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/20/2006 5:54:28 PM

nefertari

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When you restrict yourself to a clique...just a few that you "fit in" with...you are missing out on a lot of opportunities. For people to gravitate to other like-minded people IS, as others have pointed out, human nature. To limit yourself to only those limits your chances to learn, grow, change.

**Edited to add - I'm sick and I took a sleeping pill. This is as articulate as I get at the moment, but I think you get the gist of it.

< Message edited by nefertari -- 8/20/2006 5:55:36 PM >

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/21/2006 5:35:53 AM

agirl

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Hullo again JH,

The line you quoted from Abraham Lincoln made me laugh heartily.

I don't think that I've been excluded from groups, but rather that I've stayed on the edge of them, probably so that I have an escape from any perceived *pressure*......I am a loner by nature.

The word *clique* (in my OED) is described thus.......**A small group of people that spend time together and do not allow others to join them**. This makes it something that I wouldn't wish to *join* in any case.

I don't get attached enough to anyone to wish to be exclusive......I like the freedom to spend time with who I please, when I please and for any reason that suits me at the time.

Regards, agirl

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/21/2006 6:06:22 AM

Archer

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History will tell you that cliqueish behaviour was part of the lifestyle from the beginings of it in the US. Both the Hetero BDSM lifestyle and the Gay Leather sub cultures were such that discretion was important being "out" was not an option for many as their jobs, marriages, social lives were at risk.

When any group feels threatened they close ranks exclude potential new members, do all sorts of cliqueish behaviour. So if you make the logical social development line, cliquish behaviour as a form of self defense was practiced and thus modeled for generations of kinky people (kink generations meaning the 5- 10 years or so between beginners and the ones who teach beginners).

Over time the reason for the cliquish behavior has reduced as has the amount of it practiced in fullness. We don't practice as exclussionary methods as those who did this back 30 years or so.
Secret meetings, codes for identifying each other are less guarded, anyone and I do mean anyone can google a munch or event and attend and gain enterance.

The change from cliques to protect themselves from being outted, shifted when the exclussivity of joining groups and screening new members went away, the new threat was the "watering down" of the lifestyle, changing values etc, so the cliques reformed around personalities who had strong beliefs and the mentality to defend them.

Now it seems at least to me that that has become the new model of how to "be" a _____. Establish beliefs defend them and people will gather to you. In and of itself the model isn't evil or bad, when it is recognized by all parties that that is exactly what the model is.

Just a little historical and social background to consider.

In Leather

Archer

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/21/2006 8:58:09 AM

Dnomyar

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WhipTheHip. Where is there a shortage of submissives? Either you have narrow limits on who you are seeking or you communication skills are lacking.

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/21/2006 8:58:31 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

Hi there,

In bdsm you are not considered "real" if you are not into the scene 24 / 7 / 365 Switches are looked down upon, just like bi sexual females are looked down upon by lesbians.

In bdsm there are too many males and not enough females, so some Doms want to keep the competition as low as possible. The easiest way to do this is by instilling fear in subs. Once a Dom finds a sub, he doesn't want to lose her, so he thinks by limiting her contacts he will make her completely dependant on him.

Okay, I'd hate to dispel the sweeping generalizations that you've made, but I'm sorry I must. I am a switch and I assure you I have no problem finding someone that accepts this aspect of my sexuality. I'm also bisexual and the myth that lesbians don't like us is truly overstated. I've been with both so I know. The only fear some lesbians have about bisexual women is the fact we have more choices and some cannot handle the emotional ramifications of a woman deciding she prefers to be with a man rather than the lesbian.

Lastly, it really gets tiresome hearing how the big bad dominants are mistreating these women and forcing them to do this and that. Are these people capable of formulating a thought on their own? Are their spines composed of spaghetti? I'm seriously wondering why one party is blamed for their actions when they can only do what the other permits. Submissives that desire healthy relationships will not be drawn to insecure people who employ these tactics. Those that do find an affinity with them are typically very insecure persons that equate jealousy and possessiveness with love. For them, the more someone controls and restricts, the more valued they feel within.

The common denominator in all the above is that these are personal issues and choices. We shouldn't attach a stigma or generalization to one particular group. Exceptions do exist.

porcelaine

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/22/2006 7:22:52 PM

chgosubmale

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Cliquishness is the defining characteristic of all small groups. It has been observed by many for quite some time that the smaller the group in question, the more elaborate its rituals and rules, and the more strict the demands for "purity". This applies to the social register set, punk rockers, and BSDM. The flip side is also true: the more people who get involved, the more general and permissive the standards. Hence the inevitable complaints about dumbing down, etc. whenever an activity becomes "democratized".

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/22/2006 9:29:41 PM

Reflectivesoul

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Seems I have missed a lot since I've been away lol. to the OP... I liked and was rather amused with this thread. A great one to start back with heh. ( well almost the first ... )

Groups here seem to form and then break faster than most people change their undies. I think it happens mostly because when they are new they dont want to step on any toes, they want to get attached to the "popular" people because they want the instant acceptance, the problem with this is that once they have been around for a little while they come to realize that sometimes the people they have attached themselves too are the ones that are trying the hardest to get into the "in" group.

What I have seen many times over within CM is that there isnt so much of an "in" group. The people who arent afraid to stand up and say what they believe are the ones that most people look forward to speaking with. Those who sit by and rarely contribute in turn whine about never being accepted... part of this lifestyle and all lifestyles is doing your part to contribute and make yourself known to other people, being yourself and standing up for what you believe.

( oh and by the way if you ever come across LROD... you're in lmao [j/k] )

As far as someone new coming in and posting about things that may raise feathers, I think its great. ( as long as it isnt the usual troll crap, and you ALL know what I'm talking about there) I totally did not see the OP as an attack on anyone, more along the lines of a why is it like this kind of thing. Also its a point that more than one people have addressed before. ( Usually those people are given troll tags or labeled as whiners)

To the OP good job and good luck.

Welcome to the CM boards, keep your hands feet and other objects inside of the vehicle ( unless you like having them bit off lol).

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ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/22/2006 9:48:24 PM

marieToo

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General reply to OP: Yeah the whole clique thing is pretty much human nature. However, I have found it to be even moreso with regards to online groups; chatrooms, message boards, and what have you. I think in general people who tend to spend ALOT of time online going out of their way to be accepted are probably people that you shouldnt want to be accepted by or a part of. Often times, especially in chatrooms, its the only place in their lives where they feel like they belong, or where they feel like they have some control because they are "regs". I mean, come on, what a legacy, being 'somebody' in a friggin chatroom. I would like to be accepted by and respected by the handful of people that I admire. The rest are just practice.

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/22/2006 10:00:40 PM

popeye1250

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Like Groucho Marx said; "I'd never belong to a club that would have me as a member!"

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RE: Why is this lifestyle so cliquish like so many others? - 8/23/2006 1:36:47 AM

sierraflowr

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Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Northern California
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i SO like your post. i never did understand why people CARE if others are cliquish. if i go to a party and they are, i can either go back and try to make friends or not. up to me. but why care. to many other things to give a shit about in life.
flowr

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I become who I might be.
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