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But "sub" has come to be an all inclusive term 

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ORIGINAL: catize

I agree, he spouts but seldom listens.  I don't find him disturbing, just annoying in a twit sort of way.

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But "sub" has come to be an all inclusive term 

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ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I'd rather be flogged by a Dom (or Top or Master) who is getting what he wants out of the experience. But, if I have to pick one, pain (I guess). But it probably wouldn't feel as much like pain to me if it was giving them pleasure - so , does that count?

- Susan 

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ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Whip,
In reading your post to Sunshine, I still have no idea what you consider "real sexual sadism" to be.  In one paragraph you call your self a "real sexual sadist" and then in another paragraph you say that you "don't get off on seeing people suffer pain."  What is "real sexual sadism" to you?

I am glad you asked me this question.  I wouldn't get any pleasure from drilling the tooth of a
female bottom, sticking a needles into her, pulling out her fingernails. sticking bamboo shoots
under her finger nails or crushing her bones.  To the contrary, the mere thought of this stuff
sickens me, makes me nauseous, frightens me, makes me feel pain, and causes me to feel
faint. 

On the other hand, I do like seeing a female suffer pain from being whipped, form being
spanked, from putting clamps on her nipples, from putting clamps on her breasts, from forcing
objects into her, and such.   There has to be a sexual aspect to the pain or it turns me off.   I 
get turned on by seeing a female squirm from sexual pain.  Does this mean I would ever violate
a female's hard limits no, for all the reasons I stated above, and also knowing that would be
the end of my ever being able to get sexual pleasure this way.   A female willing to be my
sub is much too valuable to me to alienate.  Finally, I couldn't endure the emotional distress
that would accompany exceeding a sub's hard limits. So, I have no fear of taking things too
far.  My play has never upset any of the females I have ever played with.

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Now, I have never been a bottom.   I have a very, very low tolerance for pain.   I get zero enjoyment
from pain, nor do I get endorphins from pain.  But I do have masochistic fantasies, some very 
extreme.  If I were ever to be a bottom, I could never play with a safeword, because I would use
it immediately as I really can't stand any level of pain.  The female top would have to be someone
who didn't care about me, somene who really enjoyed watching me suffer.

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  If this were not the case,
she most likely would stop as soon as she saw how much pain I was really in.  She would have to
get off on the fact that what she was doing was at some level non-consensual.  As she was doing
it I would probably be calling her a fucking bitch a pleading with her to stop.   She wouldn't find
someone submissive at all. 

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My ideal fantasy female top would be a survivor with a lot of anger,
who needed someone to stop her from going too far, to make sure her inner beast get out of
control and kill me.  Why I have this fantasy, I can't exactly say, but I probably would only go
through it once, as I am sure the reality would change the way I felt about it.

I might want to reserve this fantasy for a female who wants to be my sub, who can temporarily
look at me as someone else, perhaps someone who hurt her in the past.  This would be my
gift to her, and it would take away some of the guilt I feel for being a sexual sadist, and for a
lot of the fantasies I have.

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I think whip's perspective is a little one sided in that he assumes he is the only "compassionate" top out there... that is a rather bold assumption. Since he judges other doms to be abusive and mean and cruel, it is not surprising that he would be mistaken about others.  

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ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> Actually, a femsub just into pain and not into Ds is termed a bottom masochist.
 
Right!  But "sub" has come to be an all inclusive term, and usually most female
bottom masochists tend to have at least a little sub in them, too.   "Sub" seems
to have become a generic term.

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ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I'd rather be flogged by a Dom (or Top or Master) who is getting what he wants out of the experience. But, if I have to pick one, pain (I guess). But it probably wouldn't feel as much like pain to me if it was giving them pleasure - so , does that count?- Susan 

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ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> I am with the others here and that "sub" is not a generic term to describe all female bottoms. 

I have heard male and female bottoms call themselves "subs" when they are not
really submissive.  I have heard "sub" used to desribe the receiving partner.

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I have heard male and female bottoms call themselves "subs" when they are not
really submissive.  I have heard "sub" used to desribe the receiving partner.

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ORIGINAL: catize

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I think whip's perspective is a little one sided in that he assumes he is the only "compassionate" top out there... that is a rather bold assumption. Since he judges other doms to be abusive and mean and cruel, it is not surprising that he would be mistaken about others.  

Yes, I'm sure he'd be quite shocked to know that Master grows flowers, fixes me tea, has a refrigerator covered with cards and funny notes from his adult son,  cuddles and snuggles a lot before and after caning my butt until I bleed! LOL