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RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 9:45:43 AM

Kree

Posts: 118
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline

Erin,
Very good topic!
I am amazed at how many people on the board seem to have nothing in their lives but beating dead horses. After about 4 or 5 pages of responses, we usually see nothing but the same 10 or 12 people with their sledgehammers and the assortment of horses piled in a corner. Some people seem to just post to run up the scores in the number of posts column.
I too find some of the comments to be thought provoking, which is a good thing. What is annoying to me is the people who come in on page 4 of a thread, without having read the first four pages, and take off on a diatribe that was already acted out. If a thread is interesting, read it, then add comments. I dont see a need for 25 "me toos" on every thread. I really get a laugh out of the threads like the overweight threads that go for 40 pages. There is NO ANSWER and never will be, but there are people who honestly seem to think that they can get the last word on every thread. Doesnt happen because there are about 20 people who always seem to feel they should get the last word... or provide yet another horse to beat.
Wouldnt it be interesting if all threads had a limit to how many times any one person could respond. W3e would see more thought provoking insights and less attempts to run up the posting scores. If the limit was three posts on any topic, people would have to start new threads to make their on/off topic comments and then there might be more in-depth explorations of side issues.

_____________________________

Author of "Nytewhispers"

Power whispers, it has no reason to yell

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 21

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 10:00:56 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kree
Wouldnt it be interesting if all threads had a limit to how many times any one person could respond. W3e would see more thought provoking insights and less attempts to run up the posting scores. If the limit was three posts on any topic, people would have to start new threads to make their on/off topic comments and then there might be more in-depth explorations of side issues.

LMAO. I don't know that I'd like to see limits in quite that sense. It would be nice though, if some posters were more able to recognize when they have really pushed past what is of benefit.

I don't know....maybe some ring girls....stools in the corner...and time out bells.......

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Kree)

Post #: 22

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 10:13:25 AM

HollyS

Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

This is a discussion forum. Differing opinions and viewpoints are the very thing that make it work. I love to see all of the different perspectives....and sometimes they will even cause me to re-examine how I personally feel on a topic or issue. Discussion is awesome. But there is a point where a discussion turns into an argument....and then there is a point where an argument turns into an argument that seems solely for the sake of argument.

At what point though, do you say to yourself, this is futile....I have stated how I feel in 10 different ways and I am at the point of beating a dead horse? Or what about posters who want to fight to the death on EVERY issue?

I love so much of the discussion I find here in the forums but when it seems like a thread has become primarily about one person's perspective, I generally won't post. Often those threads are about the OP looking to push a certain agenda, which is a losing venture for follow-up posters. Some people really like to debate at this level, but I feel like if what I have to say won't be heard in that particular space, then best to read on and look for another topic. I really like being engaged about issues and exploring all sides to the wide variety of topics brought up here, but not if I have to begin from a point of defensiveness.

Unfortunately some threads start with the dead horse. I'm bothered when OPs begin with "Why are all X _________?" then go on to relate their own personal story with X, as if their experience encompassed all such experiences in the world. Such threads tend to draw a crowd too, stirring the flaming pot and getting people riled up, but I find little to enjoy in them. Saying "both sides are valid and here is why" goes ignored -- it seems people like to fight this way. We see it all the time:

Well I don't know anyone who...
Why would anyone....
Have you noticed that male _____ are...
Have you noticed that female ______ are...
Everytime I ______ such-and-such ______ happens. Why are such experiences always this way?

There's nothing wrong with politely trying to convince others of a certain point of view (that's what debate is, after all), as long as room is made to respectfully disagree at the end of the day. Beyond that and people either stop listening or keep at it, ending up frustrated with each other. For my part, I'd prefer to see more of the former and less of the latter. Personally I notice many of the regular posters whom I respect staying out of the infernos, which, to me, says something.

~Holly

_____________________________

I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 23

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 10:15:29 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

I don't know....maybe some ring girls....stools in the corner...and time out bells...

Isnt that what the mods are? - Ring girls? *ducks and hides*

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 24

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 10:17:31 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

I'll make my statments on something.. if someone askes for clarificaiton, I'll give it.

If it's challenged- I'll discuss it.

If people assume an evangelical attitude about their stance. I simply no longer respond- becase then it will become defensive.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 25

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 10:23:28 AM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

I have to say that I see some taking it way too seriously and fight to the death.
I like to see a persons point of view,but dont try to force Me to change My mind...just accept I feel/think differently.

I have also changed My point of view after reading some posts.
I have also gotten good ideas.I post on what I know for sure.
People can either listen or not,agree or not.

But lets all at least agree to disagree.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 26

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 10:53:33 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Almost all online discussions follow a well-laid and predictable pattern. Including meta-topics like this one. It's part of why I'm so quick to respond and so consistent in my responses.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MistressSassy66)

Post #: 27

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 10:54:35 AM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

Erin all good questions that deserve carefully thought out answers.

At what point though, do you say to yourself, this is futile....I have stated how I feel in 10 different ways and I am at the point of beating a dead horse? When I feel I have stated my feelings as clearly as possible and the other "side" doesn't bring any new reasoning or ideas into the discussion - when things get repetitive, I pull away.

Are the rules different for Doms and subs? Absolutely not.

If you are a Dom, do you expect that if the opposing poster is sub that they will concede in the end? Of course not. I assume that we are all adults and that we are capable of learning/teaching from each other, regardless of power identities. I do, however expect basic manners or I won't invest the time to discuss something with the person.

If you are an owned sub is there a point at which your Dom tells you to back off? Yes, I've asked cubby and nomi to just let something go in the past. But it was when they were in danger of losing their temper, or when it was obvious the other person just wanted an argument. Usually I don't have to though.

Does that Dom feel like if you continue past the point of discussion into an argument that it reflects badly on him? I feel that EVERYTHING a slave does reflects upon their owner/Mistress, good or bad. I am especially proud when I see them conduct themselves well in a heated discussion. I also feel that everything I do reflects on their choice to serve me. I want to always inspire their respect and trust.

If you find yourself involved in an argument....can you objectively see your own behavior in it? Quite often. I admit, when I feel that something I feel strongly about is being "attacked" I sometimes will explain/defend my position more than is necessary. I try to learn from those mistakes, but we are all human. To be honest, I tend to watch the posters here... If I see that a certain person always seems to be involved in drama and arguments, I'll simply avoid engaging in discussions with them. I've found that my passion for discussion quickly wanes with the level of my respect for a person. If I never respond to your posts, chances are I am trying to avoid disruption on the boards.

Is there a point at which cheap shots, nit picking and insults become justified for you? Do they happen? - yes. Are they justified? - no. I think there is a fine line between attacking an idea and attacking a person. If I feel that negatively about the PERSON, I exit the conversation - period.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 28

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 11:39:09 AM

bignipples2share

Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

I think there are alot of new people who come in and don't know the art of debate. They base matters entirely on their circle of life.
They socially fit in with the people they've decided to incorporate into their lives, those are the people they discuss things with. They listen to lifes issues from their friends and their friends family and their friends. Their views change on certain subjects, as they see it's value to their lives, or not. Debating, such as done here, is getting a much wider view and for those that are new, it can be so foreign to the way they've processed information before.
I think this forum has some amazingly intellegent people who post here, I love seeing the debates, on almost all of the topics and I love learning.
I don't base anything someone writes, as more, or less valid, based on their orientation. I only see it as a different perspective and would hope no matter what section of the forum they happen to be in, that all reply. If a new person comes to the forum and only goes to the ask the seb section and masters are not responding, how can this incompass all aspects of the question?
And yes, I will go to the ones that are just trainwrecks and read, although, I'm not much of a rubbernecker for accidents on the side of the road in r/l. As long as emergency vehicles are there and things are being taken care of I'm fine with just driving on. It can a learning experience in itself LOL
< mental notes: oops, never do that; ahhhh good point on that one; now ya blew it....etc>

~Big

(in reply to HollyS)

Post #: 29

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 1:33:16 PM

jamesthehumanrug

Posts: 668
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline

in other words ,....albatross ;IT'S WHO WE ARE ,TO THAT PERSON ,WHEN WE ARE 'WITH THAT PERSON ,THAT COUNTS ,AND, NOT
'WHAT' WE ARE ....
??????????????????

< Message edited by jamesthehumanrug -- 8/21/2006 1:36:18 PM >

_____________________________

I REMAIN RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
,LOVEles,
jamesthehumanrug

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 30

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:04:01 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Or sometimes it's a very intelligent discussion, but outsiders can't figure out what the discussants are talking about or why it matters. I don't see how it's constructive for anyone else to tell the participants just to shut up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

What I am getting at is not people's rights to discuss, argue, or beat, it's that sometimes it is a very futile discussion, but the ones embroiled in it can't see that.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 31

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:13:06 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Does anyone remmeber the "Submissive in a sexless marriage" thread? I sure do.
Also, many threads "debating" the merits of Polyamory....

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Kree)

Post #: 32

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:14:38 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Or sometimes it's a very intelligent discussion, but outsiders can't figure out what the discussants are talking about or why it matters. I don't see how it's constructive for anyone else to tell the participants just to shut up.

Especially when people basically need to pull the 2x4 from their own eye before they try to remove the splinter from their neighbor's.

Only one person tells me to shut up, and he never has as far as the forums go, and unless I broke his rules considering my posting here that is not likely to happen.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 33

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:34:33 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Or sometimes it's a very intelligent discussion, but outsiders can't figure out what the discussants are talking about or why it matters. I don't see how it's constructive for anyone else to tell the participants just to shut up.

I never said it's constructive, but it can be appropriate. And satisfying.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 34

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:39:09 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

benji: And you do it so well...

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/21/2006 2:41:15 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 35

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:48:39 PM

zenofeller

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Almost all online discussions follow a well-laid and predictable pattern. Including meta-topics like this one. It's part of why I'm so quick to respond and so consistent in my responses.

and ultimately, so bored ?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 36

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:51:02 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Does anyone remmeber the "Submissive in a sexless marriage" thread? I sure do.
Also, many threads "debating" the merits of Polyamory....

- Susan

I do remember it well susan, as it was started by my best friend, she was hounded from one thread to another over it

On Edit: I remember you took quite a "beating" too

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/21/2006 2:52:33 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 37

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:55:27 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

It sticks out in my memory like a gigantic cactus with extra sharp needles.And I also felt extra sorry for the OP.I am so glad it hasn't been revived by anyone lately (crossing my fingers...)

-Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 38

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 2:58:05 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

It sticks out in my memory like a gigantic cactus with extra sharp needles.And I also felt extra sorry for the OP.I am so glad it hasn't been revived by anyone lately (crossing my fingers...)

-Susan

She quit posting on this site for professional reasons anyways, so even if it were "resurrected" she wouldn't know. I intentionally stayed away from that thread not wanting to get on my soapbox about it, I do that enough without intending to...smiles.

Its all good, and you survived it...lol

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 39

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 3:02:38 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I went on for what seemed like centuries.

I have seen cloudboy, and a few others who are Poly, take a beating on threads debating the merits of Polyamory, too. Of course, cloudboy doesn't really seem to care what other people think, and has worked out his own stuff (or is working on it) as far as that goes. I assume many other people do this in their own lives, too.

All of the heated debates, to me - boil down to one thing (to me), usually..one person thinks they are right (or both do) and their opinions are not the same - and either one, or both of them, just won't "let it go". On that "submissive in a sexless marriage" thread, I went on responding for far too long (but as I recall, I was really ticked off). In retrospect, it was such a waste of time.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/21/2006 3:11:15 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 40

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