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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 2:55:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Yes, a lot of people seem to feel that a relationship will "fail" for whatever reason.
But what if it doesn't fail but prospers and both are very happy and maybe even fall in love with each other?
If that happened in my case anyway, and if my sub became my Owned Collared slave I wouldn't have any reservations about marriage.
As for the "financial" part I'm in a different situation than most people in that I get a generous pension from the V.A. and if I were married and passed on before my wife she'd be taken care of by that pension for the rest of her life so it wouldn't be a case of her "being out on the street" at all. Far from it!
Of course you have to make some type of financial arrangements for your stay at home sub/slave like maybe a life insurance policy if you pass on which would pay off the house, bills and give her some money like in an anuity.
I'm lucky in that if I were married the pension would keep on continuing for her and she'd have plenty to live a good life without me having to buy a large insurance policy. (Thankyou Uncle Sam!)
I think that if you are going to own another person as a Collared slave and possibly a spouse too you need to provide for their welfare.
In my case however I'm not just looking for a "roomate" who likes to "play."
I'm looking for a Long Term Relationship.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 8/21/2006 2:57:31 PM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 3:13:16 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Diurnal vampire and Merc's posts got Me thinking a bit (always dangerous) and what follows is a sort of hijack, sort of detour, but maybe not:

Many people referenced the issue of "what happens if the working partner decides to end the relationship" and the stay at home (in this case) submissive is out on the street with no skills and no money.  Diurnal talked about the issues of her health and possibly being disabled, so that her sub would support them both, and Merc of course posted about wanting beth to have no other "master". 

The subtext in all of this is money:  How you spend it in the D/s relationship, and moreover, what happens down the road.?   In traditional "vanilla" worlds, this is usually done thru something we call "marriage" and the attendant laws that require a split of assets, etc. (and the attendant problems with those laws).   There is a fairly highly evolved legal structure used to deal with these issues in gay relationships, in relationships involving multiple families, and I suppose in M/s relationships.  But it is not something I've seen much of.  So I'll ask:  what financial arrangements are appropriate for a full-time stay at home submissive?  How does the Dominant (and in this thread, working) partner provide for the sub?

E

< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 8/21/2006 3:15:22 PM >

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"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 3:16:19 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		By having life insurance. I think so anyway. And maybe disability insurance. Certainly heath insurance (for both of us). As far as how to handle spending money, I've always been on a budget, and received an allowance (it was a fairly generous allowance, too, like almost $1K a month. To me, that is generous. If I didn't spend it all, I put it in a separate savings account to use for things like gifts and trips). But, since I have enough to contribute to any household, that wouldn't (or shouldn't be) a problem. I am not saying I require a particular amount. I am not particulalry materialistic, and not a shopaholic (yesterday's foray onto the Victoria's Secret website was a rare exception, really).What to do as far as an allowance would be up to the Dominant. I would never attempt to live beyond anyone's, or our, means. Credit card debt is just not worth the burden it can impose on people's emotional health, in my opinion.

Heath-care and financial power-of-attorney would also be important, in case I went into a coma, or something. I might change my will - that would be something up for discussion, I suppose. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/21/2006 3:40:20 PM >

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 3:25:04 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		For us, if my boy did become stay at home, the proper insurance policies would be put in place.  All legal documentation, including wills and whatnot, will be written right away even though I hope (cross fingers) they wont be needed for a very long time. We have discussed (though it wont be any time soon) marraige as well, so that would tie into the other legal bit in and of itself.
However I also know that it is possible to set up a "life partner" clause or something to that effect if you are not married.  It is common for the gay/lesbian community, but it is possible to do for straight people as well.
Until this thread, I hadnt thought much about it.  Our discussions centered around his eventualy becoming a house"wife" so that my plans for femenization could go about without the distraction of work and explaining the changes outside. Since it sint somthing that we would be putting any serious consideration to for a few years yet, the ramifications of his staying home havent really been hashed out. It is something we will ahve to think about if and when it gets to that point. For now, we are both content to remain working outside the house and building the relationship we have, before seeing where itll lead us.

DV

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(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 3:41:33 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Now that would be very sexy to have a Collared slave and make her your wife as well!
"Now , my  little girl, I  *TOTALLY OWN*  you!"
A lot of the above assumes that the stay at home sub would be without any assets whatever.
Most people by the time they're in their forties own a house or have some savings or investments.
Marriage does give a person a good bit of protection and probably those  "life partner" arrangements but I'm not a lawyer and can't say.
I think the best thing may be to actually go and talk to an attorney about some type of an agreement and yes there's plenty of them who are "Kink-Friendly" as I've met quite a few at parties!
I think in any relationship unless it's just a roomate who "plays" both people would want to make arrangements to take care of the other person.
You simply can't put someone "out on the street!"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 8/21/2006 3:42:15 PM >

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 3:54:21 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

The subtext in all of this is money:  How you spend it in the D/s relationship, and moreover, what happens down the road.?   In traditional "vanilla" worlds, this is usually done thru something we call "marriage" and the attendant laws that require a split of assets, etc. (and the attendant problems with those laws).   There is a fairly highly evolved legal structure used to deal with these issues in gay relationships, in relationships involving multiple families, and I suppose in M/s relationships.  But it is not something I've seen much of.  So I'll ask:  what financial arrangements are appropriate for a full-time stay at home submissive?  How does the Dominant (and in this thread, working) partner provide for the sub?


Emperor,
The "subtext" may be money, but the "ubber-text" is trust.

Next month we add the title of legal man & wife to our collective resume. It will not change beth's financial arrangement one bit. I made those arrangements soon after beth became my slave. Arrangements concerning property ownership,life insurance beneficiary, etcetera; were done on her behalf by me, most without her knowledge. I took care of her health coverage. I provided "spending money", gave her a credit and money card where she could draw directly from my accounts. she also has credit in her own name, our house is in both names, so are the cars. It was part of planning for success. All it takes is trust.

A biggest factor positive for getting married was something outside financial considerations. Similar to the problems experienced by gay couples, if something happened to either of us, requiring a life decision, unless we were husband/wife, we wouldn't have the legal ability to make a decision. That situation bothered both of us way more than anything financial. There are "care-giver" contracts regarding medical decisions, but we didn't want to have the slightest possibility of a decision of this nature being in the hands of the US legal system.

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 3:55:45 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Congratulations again, you two! I am happy for you!

- Susan 

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And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 3:59:22 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Diurnal vampire and Merc's posts got Me thinking a bit (always dangerous) and what follows is a sort of hijack, sort of detour, but maybe not:

Many people referenced the issue of "what happens if the working partner decides to end the relationship" and the stay at home (in this case) submissive is out on the street with no skills and no money.  Diurnal talked about the issues of her health and possibly being disabled, so that her sub would support them both, and Merc of course posted about wanting beth to have no other "master". 

The subtext in all of this is money:  How you spend it in the D/s relationship, and moreover, what happens down the road.?   In traditional "vanilla" worlds, this is usually done thru something we call "marriage" and the attendant laws that require a split of assets, etc. (and the attendant problems with those laws).   There is a fairly highly evolved legal structure used to deal with these issues in gay relationships, in relationships involving multiple families, and I suppose in M/s relationships.  But it is not something I've seen much of.  So I'll ask:  what financial arrangements are appropriate for a full-time stay at home submissive?  How does the Dominant (and in this thread, working) partner provide for the sub?

E


I can only answer this from my own experience and perspective. I was seeing a young woman that is very wealthy, not just a little but VERY. The woman will never have to work another day in her life and can afford to travel and purchase almost anything her heart desires.
As she and I became closer she began to express an interest in my leaving my job and accompanying her. I cannot just pick up and travel whenever I want to, even if the trip is paid for 100% there are other costs involved, plus I have limited vacation time and some restrictions when I can use it.
She explained to me that I did not need to worry about money, explaining in detail her financial situation. Well grand, so I would get to travel, see the world, spend money, languish on the beaches of south france........life would be peachy keen! What about all of my other obligations? Not a problem, here take this cheque for ........ALOT of $$$.....pay everything off....TADAAAAAA!! Okay, so there are several problems here. #1 my pride #2 my future. At that time, almost two years ago now, this young lady just could not understand the concept of the future. She didn't have to! Life was good for her, a two story penthouse in NYC, a cute lil house in South Beach for the weekend getaways, a family jet to take when the urge struck. A family apartment in Paris, another family home in rural wine country France, another in California and another on a Greek isle. She did not understand the concept of medical emergencies, retirement planning........etc etc etc. Needless to say I did not take her up on the offer. But if I had and 10 years later we ended the relationship, I would have lost so much and then had so little based on her vague promises. Yes I loved her, still do, always will. But I need to be productive, to know that I am taking care of myself so that I will not be a burden on the over taxed welfare system, that I can live somewhat comfortably when I am tired of working. I did not have the proof of that with her than I have working for my paycheck and investing for my future. Yes, she was a very delightful submissive woman that I know was sincere and wanted to do things for me, to serve me in the best ways that she could. Yes, for her a large part of that was financial. And yes, if we could have found a way for me to work for any one of the family businesses to earn and invest it would have been different. I am confident in my working skills and abilities. But to just walk into it with rose coloured glasses, grab the black American Express, and assume it would all just "be okay"....... no.

Granted, that is a bizare and rather colourful example but it is how I can relate to the idea.



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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 4:35:26 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, La Tigresse. I have to say I would have been tempted to go with that person (provided I really cared about them of course). But - if their lifestyle was somehow an indication we had wildly different values, or they might not have many, perhaps, due to things always having been really easy for them , then I'd not do it, for sure.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/21/2006 4:41:45 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 4:46:01 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		If there was enough income to support both of us, I would love for my submissive to stay home and take care of things. I would love to walk in the door after a long day at work and have a clean house, dinner on the table and my submissive looking better than any dinner he would prepare. But, reality is, I don't make enough money to support another person, but if I did, yes, I would love to have him at home.

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 5:02:28 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Merc n Beth, Congradulations!
Good for you Both!
I like to see marriages come from our lifestyle!
And Merc, you're right about marriage making it easier to get around the legal work, very true.
Up North I knew a lot of people in the lifestyle who got married and as far as I know they're still married and very happy together.
Cool beans.

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 5:17:09 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		LOL...I hear ya Katy.  I tend to do that also; however, then reality sets in and I realize that I would be LOST without work!

< Message edited by bandit25 -- 8/21/2006 5:22:12 PM >

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 5:38:21 PM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I can't speak from the perspective of a relationship with a submissive; however from the perspective of owning a slave, I had it as a requirement that she "stay-at-home".

There is one primary reason for my opinion on this matter. I wanted, and required, that I was the only Master my slave served. A job, career, unrelated home business, AMWAY, name it; all require focus outside the relationship. All require obedience to another master. I knew myself to be very selfish with my important and valuable possessions. beth, my slave, is my most important possession and of 'priceless' value. No amount of money she could bring into the household was equal to her worth to me. When I want to use beth, whether in our playroom if I leave the office early or having her accompany me on a business meeting I don't want her to have to check with her other employer 'master' for permission. When I come home at the end of the day, I don't want to wait for her to log off her inventory spreadsheet or finish packing her latest shipment. I want her to be at the door, naked, waiting with a drink.


ROFL......I just read this to Scooter and he states"i don't see anything wrong with that".

He feels exactly the same way.

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 5:47:09 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Actually merc, that drink tastes pretty good in the evening, now doesn't it?

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 6:16:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

The subtext in all of this is money:  How you spend it in the D/s relationship, and moreover, what happens down the road.?   In traditional "vanilla" worlds, this is usually done thru something we call "marriage" and the attendant laws that require a split of assets, etc. (and the attendant problems with those laws).   There is a fairly highly evolved legal structure used to deal with these issues in gay relationships, in relationships involving multiple families, and I suppose in M/s relationships.  But it is not something I've seen much of.  So I'll ask:  what financial arrangements are appropriate for a full-time stay at home submissive?  How does the Dominant (and in this thread, working) partner provide for the sub?

E


Well I have seen a lot of married people on this site. It is the easiest course of action to protect your submissive that will entitle them to get social security under your account if you pass away, will enable them to fulfil your wishes if something like the Shivo case comes up, it entitles them or you to employer held health benefits

Personally I could not imagine staying at home and not working on outside goals without being married also. I would definitely want to be married to someone I was spending my life with for the reasons I stated above, to protect both of us if something should happen to the other.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/21/2006 6:17:23 PM >

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 6:19:22 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Mercnbeth, as I have said before, you guys are real assets to the board and great examples for all of us.

Susan, I would let you stay home and be the housekeeper as long as you worked naked.

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 6:25:41 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

So, how do Dominants males (and Dommes) feel about their submissives staying at home and simply taking care of the home and them?

- Susan


I can't speak from a dominant point of view, but FHky already covered that side of our equation. 

As for my position, I have mixed feelings.  I have worked outside the home for most of my adult life, and while there are times when I truly view it as a daily grind, I do gain a satisfaction in knowing that I do my job and do it well.  I'm also keen enough to recognize that it gives me a depth that I wouldn't have otherwise and that dimension is something that I can share with FHky. 

Aside from providing a vehicle for personal growth, there is the financial aspect.  While FHky doesn't need my income to provide a comfortable life, having it and the attendant benefits that come from my position would ensure that he needn't ever worry.  It will also give him an additional resource to use in planning for our future.

However, I do have concerns that once we reach the point where we are ready to become 24/7, my career will seriously hamper my ability to live up to my own expectations in belonging to him (not to mention his ).   My position is in management and demands a great deal of my time and energy.  Because of that, he will be limited in his access to me and any plans regarding me will always have to take my professional life into consideration.  In effect, concerning my time, he will always come second in my life behind my employer, and honestly... that just doesn't sit well with me.

There's also the matter that, while working outside the home, I do have significant topics to add to our conversations, it's not my desire to subject him to incessant rants regarding my job.  Unfortunately, because of the nature of my work, I do deal with a lot of stress and frustration, and already that taints our communication.  While I can most likely restrain myself from sharing with him the issues and irritations I experience on a daily basis in the workplace, doing so would literally cut him out of a significant part of my life.

To tell you the truth, while I can easily make decisions regarding a $35M a year business, I'm completely stymied by this one.  When the time comes, I'll gladly leave it up to FHky.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

My losttreasure currently works in a professional capacity, and as long as she wishes to continue, I'm supportive.  If she chose not to in the future - that's fine by me as well.


  My darling dom, you consistently delight me.  But I trust you to make the best decision when the time is right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Pretty soon you have a person that sleeps til noon, doesn't get out of their pajamas til 4...and ends their day never accomplishing a thing.


*laughs*  You're describing my ex-husband!

He became "the ex" when I found out he was telling people that he was retired... at age 45.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Solely MY perspective and opinion. Feel free to flame away about inhibiting beth's growth and jeopardizing her future value in the workforce in the event something happens between the two of us. We are both guilty of planning more for our relationship's success versus it's failure; but we have some safety nets in place. I don't say this is the only way, only that it's our way. Actually, to be precise - MY way.


I truly applaud your determination to succeed.  Once a decision in favor of a relationship is made, you cannot allow for the possibility of failure or the door is open to it.

< Message edited by losttreasure -- 8/21/2006 6:29:33 PM >

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 7:12:49 PM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		*fast reply*

I don't work outside the home. Both Master and I are on pensions, He is on disability and I am His carer. His disability (renal failure and Type 1 diabetes are the main problems) will never improve and is likely to get worse with time. Over the time we have been together (over 2 1/2 years) I have cared for Him at home when more than likely He would have been in hospital sometimes if He had been living on His own.

I have learned new skills since we have been together, and will be learning more. I have my own money from my divorce, and a private superannuation fund which will come due when I am 65. Besides taking care of Master (a full time job in itself sometimes!) I do the usual daily household chores, manage our financial affairs and His doctor and clinic appointments. I do have a lady come in for a couple of hours a week to take care of the heavier cleaning, which frees me up to make Master a priority. He has insomnia and is in pain 24/7 which means our nights can be unsettled sometimes.

I did try finding part time work when we got together but found that His health varied so much from one day to the next, and it would be impossible to find something close by with suitable hours. I don't feel guilty being on welfare either. I'm saving the government much more than that pension is worth by taking care of Master at home when otherwise He would have to have been in hospital several times over.

I keep up with current affairs. I read and spend time on the internet. I've just joined a gym and will go when He is at the hospital on dialysis. Same with the beauty shop - He insists I take some time for myself so I don't "burn out".

I'm thinking of taking a course to become a nurse aide (I am already a qualified teacher aide). I have done office work in the past and am computer literate. I type 45 words a minute, possibly more (I haven't been tested in a while). I could support myself if I had to. But for this stage of my life, I am needed here, caring for the Man I love so much.

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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 7:32:10 PM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Yes I loved her, still do, always will. But I need to be productive  <snip>


I don't know how you define "productive" but I can so relate to this part of your post.  Taking care of a home full-time is a huge job and I'm plenty productive in maintaining my house (and those in it). As a service s-type, I identify strongly with butler and majordomo roles and see household management as far more than cooking, cleaning and laundry.  Still, in the perfect world where I got to serve someone financially secure enough that income from me isn't needed, I'd still need the mental stimulation that comes with intellectual work to perform at my best.  Yeah, I fantasize about serving a law librarian, doctor or someone who needed my assistance with similar work, though exclusively in his service.  I think without that kind of environment my brain would turn to mush and I'd end up a pretty lousy servant overall, but I'm theorizing here. 

Sometimes it's not all about money. Or "personal fulfillment" or security or all the things that people normally associate with "working."  Sometimes it's just an extension of the need many of us here know -- the need to be useful to the extent our individual skills will allow.  I've gotta believe that wise Masters see this in their property and allow it to the fullest extent possible, resulting in happy and productive slaves. 

*returns to tasty fantasy...  sigh...*

~Holly


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RE: Are stay-at-home submissives a problem? - 8/21/2006 8:00:38 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
Hello A/all,

I have always worked to support myself and being a rather diligent worker with the attitude that I should always be looking to improve my job skills / income I have gotten to the point where I will be able to maintain a house.  Couple that with my general attitude that as long as everything is calm and placid in my house, Im pretty easy-going about whether my submissive works a job outside the house or makes my life pleasant and easy when I get home.

So I collar my second submissive, struggling to support herself working a nowhere job 70 miles away.  I find her a job as a computer tech locally, temporary contract, for one month.  I offer to let her live with me while she does the contract.  I am earning 6 figures but working two jobs to do it.  She complains that I dont clean up my coffee spills when I fill my cup to get to job one by 6am.  She gripes about me tracking dirt into the house she is living in for free.  She rags on me because the weekend she was gone (I worked all weekend) I didnt get all the laundry done.

She makes a bunch of money, keeps it for herself and her own bills.  Goes home.  I was not sorry to see her leave.

The staying at home thing is not the problem.  It is a cost-benefit thing.  Is the net cost (her not earning a monetary income) worth the benefits (In my case, being nagged endlessly) of her staying home?

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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(in reply to mistoferin)
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