RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 8:20:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
"And we all know what happens when
two atoms try to occupy the same space.. "
yup...the one that has more energy moves the other one out of the way.
Happens all the time in any gas or liquid.
Were you thinking of matter and anti-matter perhaps?


If you are moving through time not space, you don't move
anything out of the way, you just materialize in an earlier
time, in which case many of your atoms will likely find
themselves occupying the exact same space as other
atoms.  Something moving at us from the future would
not move anything out of the way.  It would suddenly
materialize in our time frame, then disappear into the
past.


And as Einstein has said, 'Schlau, aber nicht wahr.'  Clever, but not correct.

The theoretic principle has never been dis-proven...Time as we understand it, does not flow from present to past.

Additionally, if one is an adherant of the Copenhagen Interpretation. (It has alot of currency) all outcomes are taking place simultaneously, and they collapse into one reality.  That is what we are seeing, others of us in other dimensions see other outcomes.

I hold alot of currency in that interpretation, because die alt eine does play dice in my estimation, and in the fullness of time plays every game. 

The big bang is a roll of the dice, and we will eventually reduce to the big singularity and roll the dice again, forever and ever. (That part is not a widely held view, but is simple and elegant).

There is no space without accompanying time and the obverse is also true. Lacking one or the other you are not quick and not dead, an impossibility as most see it.

Ron  




pahunkboy -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 8:30:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist.

Discuss.


The US Navy sure didn't think so. The Philadelphia Experiment had everything to do with teleportation / time travel. It's my bet they're still working on this.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq21-1.htm



- R



i can only imagine the top secret stuff they are working on today, each major war brings us a treasure trove of science- much of which has improved life. [tho] the jury is out on the latest war----------------------------

hmm




pahunkboy -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 8:37:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin
There is an interesting paradox to consider when you ponder the possibility of time travel...  Consider this:
You travel back in time and somehow manage to kill your mother.  If you do this, you would not have been born.  Therefore you would never have travelled back in time.  Thus you would never have killed your mother.  Ad infinitum.
As if that does not make your brain hurt.  [8D]


or switch the babies around- what a blow out that would be!

There are a lot of possibilities here.  If you kill your mother before you were born, that would mean there are two pasts.  One where you were born and one where you weren't.  The real problam with traveling into the past is materializing in the same space being occupied by other atoms.  And we all know what happens when
two atoms try to occupy the same space..






WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:25:40 AM)

>> If you are moving through time not space, you don't move
>> anything out of the way, you just materialize in an earlier

>> time, in which case many of your atoms will likely find
>> themselves occupying the exact same space as other
>> atoms.  Something moving at us from the future would
>> not move anything out of the way.  It would suddenly
>> materialize in our time frame, then disappear into the
>> past.
>
>  And as Einstein has said, 'Schlau, aber nicht wahr.'  Clever, but not correct.

Hello Mnottertail,
 
I knew Einstein, and I can assure you, you are no Einstein.
 
> The theoretic principle has never been dis-proven.

What theoretic principle are you talking about?

> Time as we understand it, does not flow from present to past.

No one ever made this claim.  Who do you refer to as "We" 
Do you have multiple personalities? Are you refering to all

your alters?  Contrary to your opinion, time as we
understand it is not wet.

> Additionally, if one is an adherant of the Copenhagen Interpretation. 
> (It has alot of currency) all outcomes are taking place simultaneously
 
First this is not what the CI says.  Second, I don't know a single
cosmologist that accepts the CI of QM.  The CI can't be correct
for the following reasons:
 
1.  It claims there is no objective reality between measurements.
2.  It needs the concept of measurement but is unable to define it.
3.  It is unable to tell us where the line between the sub-atomic world
     where QM is operable and the macro world where it is not.
4.  According to CI, the QM should operate in the macro world but it doesn't
5.  According to QM, the universe needs obeservers to exist, yet there were
     no observers just after the BB. 
6.  According to QM things happen for no reason.  It is not a causal theory
     like all other fundamental theories in science.
7.  CI is not reconciable with GR.  GR is a causal, continuum theory.
8.  According to the CI, the universe is contantly chooses just one path from
     from an extremely large number of equally good paths making reality
     infinitely random and capricious.    
9.  The CI voids the anthropic principle, and produces many paradoxes like
      the fine-tuning problem.
10. Einstein, Dirac, and Schrodinger objected to the CI on many grounds.
11.  Roger Penrose states we have to conclude it is just plain wrong.
12.  Stephen Hawking and every noted physicist I know rejects the CI.
13.  Even those physicists who reject other interpretations, reject the CI.
       Most physicists who reject the MWI, say it is not necessary to interpret
       QM at all.
14.  The CI needs observers but is unable to define what constitutes an
        observer.
15.  The Hugh Everett Many-Worlds interpretation which I independantly
        discovered resolves all the paradoxes created by the CI.
16.  The CI interpretation creates the paradox of wave-particle duality and
        requires the nonsensical, contrived principle of complimentarity
 
I could go on and on for days.

>  and they collapse into one reality. 

According to the CI, there is only one reality.  According
to the CI, different realities do not collapse into one reality.
The probabablistic wave-function collapses.  But both
Borh and Heisenberg admitted the wave-function has
no reality itself.  Between measurements there are
just probabilities, nothing else.  Einstein rejected this
notion claiming the moon exists even when no one is
looking at it.

> That is what we are seeing, others of us in other dimensions see
> other outcomes.

This statement is gibberish.

> I hold alot of currency in that interpretation,

I hold a lot of currency myself: Yen, Euro, Pound, and Yuan.

> because die alt eine does play dice in my estimation, and in the fullness
> of time plays every game. 

You seem to be confusing Hugh Everett's interpretation with
the CI.  They are opposites.

> The big bang is a roll of the dice

The BB is a historical fact.  There is no evidence to support
the contention that it happened by chance.

> we will eventually reduce to the big singularity and roll the dice again,
> forever and ever.

This is part of my theory, though I am more inclined to
believe the big crunch singularity is the big bang
singularity.

> There is no space without accompanying time and the obverse is
> also true.

This is relativity 101.
 
Nothing you wrote has any relevance to anything I wrote before.
 
Best regards,
Michael




Lordandmaster -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:30:58 AM)

She took pictures, in fact, but there was another person involved too, so I can't share the photos because of her privacy.  Otherwise...

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, Peach was present at the last big bang.


Pictures........roflmao........




WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:34:12 AM)

Carl Meredith Allen of New Kensington, Pennsylvania. Allen was a highly intelligent but nonetheless mentally ill itinerant who had likely fabricated the story of the Philadelphia Experiment as a result of his illness.
 




Lordandmaster -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:43:06 AM)

Are you joking?  That goes back to 1957.  Were you even alive in 1957?

And how can you claim to have "discovered" something that not everyone even accepts as true?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

15.  The Hugh Everett Many-Worlds interpretation which I independantly
        discovered resolves all the paradoxes created by the CI.




WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:44:38 AM)

> Are not matter and anti-matter merely theoretical, just as time travel?
 
No, the existence of anti-matter has been proven.  Every charged,
elementry sub-atomic particle has an oppositely charged counterpart.
 
Here is an article from Wikipedia.  Wikipedia articles often contain
wrong information so take everything written here with a shaker of
salt.
 
[Mod Note:  Please don't paste huge sections of text from other sited here, just post a link to the content]




mnottertail -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:44:52 AM)

You were born after Einstein died.  The rest is absolute falsehood and misconstruction.

Since I can by prima facia evidence disprove your first assertion, you have no foundation to postulate from. 

Ron




WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:53:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Are you joking?  That goes back to 1957.  Were you even alive in 1957?

And how can you claim to have "discovered" something that not everyone even accepts as true?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

15.  The Hugh Everett Many-Worlds interpretation which I independantly
        discovered resolves all the paradoxes created by the CI.



Maybe, "discover" is not the right word.  People can discover a theory that turns out not
to be true.  I don't know if the MWI is true or not.  I only know it simply and naturally
resolves all the paradoxes of QM, except for our inability to find a decent theory for
Quantum Gravity.




Lordandmaster -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:54:15 AM)

Uh huh.  Sorry, I'm just having a hard time knowing how to converse with someone who claims in 2006 to have "INDEPENDANTLY DISCOVERED" a theory that's almost fifty years old.




mnottertail -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 9:55:34 AM)

Absolute bullshit, regardless of the wikipedia, scientists have been puzzling over why there is a positive drought of anti-matter since before your birth. Or maybe Einstein didn't have time to tell you that before he keeled over from his abdominal embolism before I was fuckin' born.  (same year tho, I almost got to meet him)

Ron 

Thank you for playing and pick up your Encyclopedia Brittanica and a complimentary subscription to Sci Am on your way out the door.




WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 10:06:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
You were born after Einstein died.  The rest is absolute falsehood and misconstruction.
Since I can by prima facia evidence disprove your first assertion, you have no foundation to postulate from. 
Ron


1. <deleted> 
2. You have no idea when I was born. 
3. You don't have prima facia evidence for squat. 
4. You haven't disproved anything. 
5. You don't need a foundation to postulate anything.
6. Each of my assertions stand on their own. 
7. I don't think any cosmologist would disagree with any of my assertions.
8. My remark about Einstein was a joke, that you were too dim-witted to get. 
    It was a parody of the remark Lloyd Bentsen said in rebuttal to Dan
    Quale, "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy.
    Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy."
9. I don't give my age out to strangers.  Since this website requires an age
    I put one in.  I tell everyone who contacts me straight away, that the age 
    shown is not my true age. 
 
[Mod Note:  personal insult deleted]




WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 10:15:11 AM)

> Are you joking?  That goes back to 1957.  Were you even alive in 1957?

I don't think that is any of your business.  I presume you are not preposing
marriage.  I don't go that way.   Hugh Everett's theory was ignored and
forgotten.  Most physicists never heard of it.  It didn't start becoming
popular till the 1980s.  So, you could say I independantly rediscovered
it in a manner of speaking.  I don't expect anyone to believe me.




WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 10:17:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh.  Sorry, I'm just having a hard time knowing how to converse with someone who claims in 2006 to have "INDEPENDANTLY DISCOVERED" a theory that's almost fifty years old.


I rediscovered the theory a long time ago.  If you can't understand something
so simple, I wouldn't expect you to understand things really complicated.




philosophy -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 10:20:54 AM)

Whip.....i think you need to relax a bit and have a chat to someone regarding the difference between science and dogma (also a quick course in precision writing wouldn't do you any harm, but i digress), the following statement of yours gives away your fundamental misunderstanding.

"The BB is a historical fact."
 
we may well be able to say the Big Bang is the best explanation for the currently observed phenomena, we might also say we believe it really happened. But once we throw phrases round like 'historical fact' it's only a few steps away from'there can be no other explanation' and, ultimately, 'burn the heretic'.

Science, not dogma.




mnottertail -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 10:24:50 AM)

OK cutsie pie....one look at your face and I can estimate a reasonable facsimile of your age.   Now as to your admitting to lies about age, knowledge, profile and several other things..........remember, the first step to healing is to admit and take responsibility for your actions......you appear to have made some progress there, I hope you follow thru.

Three people riding the train from Glasgow to London. A cosmologist, mathmetician and a physiscist.

cosmologist: Oh, look there is a black sheep, sheep in scotland must be black.

mathmetician:  There is provably one sheep in scotland that is black

physicist:  (SIGHING HEAVILY)..........

There is at least one sheep in scotland, that appears to have one black side, when viewed from a moving train.

I am aware of the Loyd Bengston thing.........the rest of it was the foible. Goofing is one thing, but flauting stupidity is open game.

Ron  

[Mod Note: personal insult removed]




Lordandmaster -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 10:28:05 AM)

According to your profile, you're 34.  That means unless you "rediscovered" the theory when you were about 3, you were "rediscovering" a theory that was already decades old.

Please, don't try to compensate for the fact that someone is calling you out on your absurd statements by insulting his intelligence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh.  Sorry, I'm just having a hard time knowing how to converse with someone who claims in 2006 to have "INDEPENDANTLY DISCOVERED" a theory that's almost fifty years old.


I rediscovered the theory a long time ago.  If you can't understand something
so simple, I wouldn't expect you to understand things really complicated.




WhipTheHip -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 11:15:00 AM)

I've all ready stated I am not 34.   I don't reveal my true age to strangers. 
I could be 22, I could be 102.  I rediscovered the theory before it became
well known to physcists over twenty years ago. I never said I just
discovered the theory.  I am out of here children have fun.  By the way
the paucity of anti-matter in our universe has long been explained. 
 
Okay, the big bang is not a historical fact.  Everything in science is
just a theory.




Lordandmaster -> RE: It is impossible to travel through time because time does not exist. (8/24/2006 11:18:40 AM)

Then I think your profile needs to state that your true age isn't 34.  Maybe you can explain why you don't feel comfortable stating your true age.  And is the person in that picture really you?  If it is, you're not 22 and you're not 102.  If it's not, you need to inform the CM staff and have them take the picture down.

After all, ordinary users are likely to be duped into thinking that you really are 34 and can't possibly have discovered the Many Worlds Theory.  We wouldn't want people making such horribly incorrect inferences now, would we...




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