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Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 8:26:44 AM   
CrappyDom


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There are always more than one way to do things.  I, being a liberal take one way as better than another but I am not blind to their being other ways.

Bush wanted to use American power to reshape the ME, well if you are going to do that, at least do it well, something he fundamentally failed to do.

If I was a neocon and wanted to pursue a right wing aggressive stance I would have done the following:

Recognized that China is the long term threat the West faces and energy is going to be the resource over which we ALL will be fighting.  We have the technological edge still and the economy to put it in place.  I would have launched a crash program to use shale oil, pebble nuclear power plants, solar power, and energy efficiency.  I would have done it in such a way that much of the industry (and thus the technology) stays here so that China has trouble stealing the technology and the money stays here.

When that P3 Orion landed on that Chinese island I would have informed them it was US property and that the cruise missiles were on the way to destroy it.  They would have been fucking pissed but there wasn't much they could do about it.  They would threaten Taiwan but I would float some advanced weapon sale and trade it off so they could regain face.

9/11, I would have used it as an excuse to secure oil from China just as they did.  I would however have diffused the tensions between Arab dictators and the religious extremists by pouring money and resources into Afghanistan and making it a paradise on earth.  I would have also made a formal treaty of defense with Israel IN EXCHANGE for creating a genuine and viable state for the Palestinians and again, made it more profitable to be at peace than at war.

As a side note, under Clinton, after the debacle in Somalia, we sent in teams of assassins who found everyone involved in dragging those rangers through the streets.  They woke them up in the middle of the night and shot them in the forehead with silenced weapons.  They were so effective, the lovers of the dead often woke up next to the cold bodies of the dead...

THAT is how I would have dealt with bin Laudin and Al Qaeda.  Even better, if they could be kidnapped without a trace and simply disappeared, so that they did not become martyrs that would be even better.

I would also put serious pressure on the Saudis and Egyptians to deal with the extreme poverty in their countries.

Seeing how much better everyone who was being "good" was doing, it would have put severe pressure on Iran and Iraq to play ball and either a pro west coup would take place or the bastards would change their ways.

So, saving the hundreds of billions we have wasted in Iraq, I would have built large anti missile systems in South Korea and Japan.  It could be done under the supposed threat of North Korea but it would also server to counter the Chinese threat.  I would continue to build up other countries defenses under the guise of protecting them from North Korea but actually doing it to hem in China.  This would have put a huge amount of pressure on the Chinese to fix North Korea or face being hemmed in.  After and only after all this was in place to deal with the North Koreans (and actually China) I would sign a non aggression pact against North Korea and turn them into an ally with the promise of money.  I would then tell China privately but VERY clearly (that way they don't lose face) that either they let their currency float and deal with intellectual piracy or we would recognize Taiwan.  China would be fucked either way and we would win either way.  If they chose to hold their ground I would impose sanctions, (which would help the US trade imbalance greatly) and pass laws shifting production to North Korea.

Still wanting China to fix their currency and stop intellectual piracy, I would then make the next private threat.  Publicly I would ramp up production of the F22, announce plans to build a couple of more carriers and add longer range naval air strike capability and perhaps even some stealthy carriers or something.  Then privately I would let the Chinese know we are going to arm Taiwan and Japan with carriers...

If you are going to play hard and rough, at least have your shit together and DO IT.  Bush is so fucking incompetent, if he was a Chinese double agent it wouldn't be surprising he has so damaged this country and benefited all of our enemies.

So THAT is why I hate that fucking moron so much.
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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 10:31:12 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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No, honestly, tell us how you really feel?
 
Ok, let me know when you run... I'll vote for ya.
 
Jewel

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 10:33:46 AM   
Lashra


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I agree with you totally. He is his Father's son. Now lets just hope Jeb doesn't get into the Whitehouse.

~Lashra, a Greenie and proud of it.

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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 10:34:13 AM   
incognitobynight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

No, honestly, tell us how you really feel?
 
Ok, let me know when you run... I'll vote for ya.
 
Jewel


Jewel, I have already used CrappyDom in a scenario of an imaginary election on another thread he started.   It's funny to then read your post here. 

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 10:36:37 AM   
Bearlee


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Why Bush is an idiot?  ...we gotta be told?  Lordy, he's on the news every darn day...embarrasing the likes of most Americans (or so his ratings would indicate). 
 
Ugg... I'd take the cigar smoker anyday!

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 10:51:33 AM   
Chaingang


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Bush may or may not be an idiot, but this is certain: he is not a patriot. I don't think he gives a damn about this country or its people. That's what's sad. And people still defend him the way some children defend an abusive parent - I use the analogy because Bush is in a position of authority whether one likes it or not.

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 11:17:27 AM   
caitlyn


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Anyone can make an agenda. Getting that agenda past the opposition is another story.
 
No offense intended, but ideas like this are worthless, until they include how to acually accomplish "dream world" solutions in the real world we live in.

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 11:30:53 AM   
happypervert


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I'll agree that Bush is an idiot. However I'll disagree with all the antogonistic measures you (in neocon mode) propose for dealing with China. For all their stupidity, even they can't be that stupid . . . I hope.

China is no threat to the US either economically or militarily; however they ARE a potentially huge market for US goods as their economy develops. We should focus on selling stuff to them instead of pissing them off by launching rockets to blow up a spy plane that is insignificant in the grand sceme of things, and it is just insane to stir up tensions with Taiwan by loading them up with weapons. Furthermore, cheap goods from China are good for American consumers. China's economy won't compete with ours though other countries should worry -- as their economy develops, they will steal heavy industrial business from recently developed economies such as Korea just as Korea stole it from Japan and Japan stole it from the US. That's just the way the world works. So it looks like the neocons have studied the situation and determined that there are far more business opportunities in China for Halliburton and other Dubya cronies, and those business opportunities have a higher upside than pandering to their other cronies in defense industries.

Although high oil prices are putting a bite on consumers now, they also provides the incentive to develop other energy resources. We've seen it before -- the OPEC oil embargos of the '70 led to increased exploration and then production, and eventually OPEC lost control as supply outstripped demand and prices dropped to around $10/bbl through the '90s. Those low prices killed research into alternative fuels, but that will pick up again now. Instead of complaining about Chinese demand for oil driving prices up, we should adjust by being more energy efficient ourselves and stop buying the biggest SUVs we can find as status symbols. Of course, there is no evidence that the neocons consider any of this -- it seems like whenever they think of oil they get like Homer Simpson when he thinks of donuts.

Well, I'm kinda rambling about these issues. Bush is an idiot, and I suppose I should be glad he hasn't bungled things worse than he has; after all, he hasn't attacked China . . . yet. I'll pray his incompetent lackeys don't convince him there was a connection between bin Laden and China they way they did with Iraq.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 8/22/2006 11:44:25 AM >

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 12:19:21 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Anyone can make an agenda. Getting that agenda past the opposition is another story.
 
No offense intended, but ideas like this are worthless, until they include how to acually accomplish "dream world" solutions in the real world we live in.


Ideas are worthless? Well Bush's certainly are and his 'dream world' solutions really don't work in the real world. If anyones ideas were wishful thinking, it is Bush's. Only he could be the the President of the world's only superpower and checkmate his own foreign policy all by himself.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/22/2006 12:20:20 PM >

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:09:24 PM   
caitlyn


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No ... ideas are worthless until they include how to actually accomplish them.
 
We could have the idea that everyone in the entire world should rid themselves of all weapons. It's a great idea, and I would be all for it. Until the idea includes how we are going to make that happen, it's just a dream world idea of no real value.
 
Energy efficiency is an even better example. If CrappyDom were a neocon, he would absolutely not be working towards energy efficiency, because the people that paid to get him elected are completely against energy efficiency. It's not a real idea for a neocon, because a neocon could never get elected with views like that.

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:13:01 PM   
poodleboy


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Well he got higher grades than Owl Gore at Yale and he woped the Democrats in every election he's stood so if hes stupid that doesn't say much for the Democrats.

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:23:54 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodleboy

Well he got higher grades than Owl Gore at Yale and he woped the Democrats in every election he's stood so if hes stupid that doesn't say much for the Democrats.

Ehhh, Al Gore went to Harvard and was a Rhodes Scholar to boot.  I think you are confused, poodleboy.

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:29:47 PM   
poodleboy


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They both did journalism courses at Yale or am I mistaken?

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:29:55 PM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddy4UdderSlut

quote:

ORIGINAL: poodleboy

Well he got higher grades than Owl Gore at Yale and he woped the Democrats in every election he's stood so if hes stupid that doesn't say much for the Democrats.

Ehhh, Al Gore went to Harvard and was a Rhodes Scholar to boot.  I think you are confused, poodleboy.


Gore went to Harvard but was not close to being a Rhodes Scholar. His grades were consistently lower than Bush's, many c's and d's. And if college grades are so important to being president, what were Lincoln's college grades?

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:39:39 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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Joined: 4/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddy4UdderSlut

quote:

ORIGINAL: poodleboy

Well he got higher grades than Owl Gore at Yale and he woped the Democrats in every election he's stood so if hes stupid that doesn't say much for the Democrats.

Ehhh, Al Gore went to Harvard and was a Rhodes Scholar to boot.  I think you are confused, poodleboy.


Gore went to Harvard but was not close to being a Rhodes Scholar. His grades were consistently lower than Bush's, many c's and d's. And if college grades are so important to being president, what were Lincoln's college grades?

Ah, well - it looks like I was wrong - no Rhodes for Al... and I haven't been able to locate transcripts for him, but a discussion in the Washington Post seemed to indicate high ability, but little focus in his academics.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A37397-2000Mar18

< Message edited by Daddy4UdderSlut -- 8/22/2006 1:40:02 PM >

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:42:36 PM   
babygirl005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddy4UdderSlut

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddy4UdderSlut

quote:

ORIGINAL: poodleboy

Well he got higher grades than Owl Gore at Yale and he woped the Democrats in every election he's stood so if hes stupid that doesn't say much for the Democrats.

Ehhh, Al Gore went to Harvard and was a Rhodes Scholar to boot.  I think you are confused, poodleboy.


Gore went to Harvard but was not close to being a Rhodes Scholar. His grades were consistently lower than Bush's, many c's and d's. And if college grades are so important to being president, what were Lincoln's college grades?

Ah, well - it looks like I was wrong - no Rhodes for Al... and I haven't been able to locate transcripts for him, but a discussion in the Washington Post seemed to indicate high ability, but little focus in his academics.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A37397-2000Mar18


I guess it was pointless to study, what with global warming such a certainty. 
Estring

< Message edited by babygirl005 -- 8/22/2006 1:43:18 PM >

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:46:38 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: babygirl005
I guess it was pointless to study, what with global warming such a certainty. 

Well, the vast majority of the scientific community actually agrees with Al Gore, so you can ridecule him all you like, but they don't.

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:53:24 PM   
CrappyDom


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From: Sacramento
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Caitlyn,

quote:

No offense intended, but ideas like this are worthless, until they include how to acually accomplish "dream world" solutions in the real world we live in.


I take it the world you live in believes China bought Boeings instead of Aerobush because they were a better deal rather than as a buy off of the US?  I bet in your world, Bush is a tried and true Texan and has nothing in common with John Kerry?

Do you actually believe the words that politicians say?  Do you really believe Muslims "hate us because of our freedoms"?  Is that the real world you live in?  Do you watch FOX and just nod your head at the amazing way they  uncover the real truth?

Sorry, but in my world politicians usually say one thing and mean another and sell wars for one reason and start them for completely different ones.  The biggest difference is the best of them win wars by either never firing a shot or having someone else do the fighting and dying.

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:55:31 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddy4UdderSlut

quote:

ORIGINAL: babygirl005
I guess it was pointless to study, what with global warming such a certainty. 

Well, the vast majority of the scientific community actually agrees with Al Gore, so you can ridecule him all you like, but they don't.


That's what Gore says. The truth is, there is a big debate in the scientific community about global warming. And I could be wrong, but this thread is Why Bush, not Gore is an idiot. Who is doing the ridiculing? I merely pointed out the truth of Gore's grades and the fact that there is debate over global warming. If you really believe that Bush is an actual idiot, well then I can understand why my points would have eluded you.  

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RE: Why Bush is an idiot - 8/22/2006 1:59:02 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Caitlyn,

quote:

No offense intended, but ideas like this are worthless, until they include how to acually accomplish "dream world" solutions in the real world we live in.


I take it the world you live in believes China bought Boeings instead of Aerobush because they were a better deal rather than as a buy off of the US?  I bet in your world, Bush is a tried and true Texan and has nothing in common with John Kerry?

Do you actually believe the words that politicians say?  Do you really believe Muslims "hate us because of our freedoms"?  Is that the real world you live in?  Do you watch FOX and just nod your head at the amazing way they  uncover the real truth?

Sorry, but in my world politicians usually say one thing and mean another and sell wars for one reason and start them for completely different ones.  The biggest difference is the best of them win wars by either never firing a shot or having someone else do the fighting and dying.


I don't believe everything politicians say, but when Muslim fanatics themselves say that they want to destroy and subjugate The West because of our culture and beliefs,  I would say that it is a good idea to take them seriously.

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Boycott Whales!

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