RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver

RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Chicago Bans Goose Liver

Is Chicago Right in regulating what foods can be eaten?

14% (4)

Is Chicago Wrong in regulating what foods can be eaten?

64% (18)

Is killing animals for food wrong? It hurts them

14% (4)

Is killing plants for food wrong? It hurts them

7% (2)

Total Votes : 28

(last vote on : 8/27/2006 12:05:27 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Bearlee -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 6:19:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess *I just find myself wondering why are they banning food and not enforcing cruelty laws. If the ban stems from the cruelty to animals why not put an end to that?* *~slowly walks away, shaking head and wondering what our "free" country is coming to...* uhhhhhhhhhh... because the US can't inforce rules in France? Foie Gras is FRENCH.

WetHotGoddess -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 6:30:16 PM)
Excuse me, I am such an idiot.. Well what the hell are we IMPORTING nasty ass french goose livers for anyway? *I personally make sure all my tortured animal flesh is USDA inspected.. LOL* quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee quote: ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess *I just find myself wondering why are they banning food and not enforcing cruelty laws. If the ban stems from the cruelty to animals why not put an end to that?* *~slowly walks away, shaking head and wondering what our "free" country is coming to...* uhhhhhhhhhh... because the US can't inforce rules in France? Foie Gras is FRENCH.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 7:08:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess *I just find myself wondering why are they banning food and not enforcing cruelty laws. If the ban stems from the cruelty to animals why not put an end to that?* *~slowly walks away, shaking head and wondering what our "free" country is coming to...* Our "free" country has become one filled with people who want to be "free" to pollute the environment at will, "free" to tolerate animal cruelty because animals who are force-fed, toxin-filled, non-muscular, and genetically mutated seem to taste better. "Free" to infringe on the space, health or rights of other people... because certain segments of society are more important; "free" to carry a gun at will without question, but denied the right to cross certain state lines to have a legal abortion in another state. Not "free" to marry someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, because Adam and Eve were not homosexuals, not "free" to burn a red, white and blue piece of cloth that you paid for.... and on and on.... No place will ever be totally free because "freedom" is in the eye of the beholder. One thing that is readily "free" in this country is hypocracy. The best we can do is try our best to enjoy our freedom without simultaneously eliminating the freedom others are trying to enjoy. Far too many people want freedom for themselves, and don't care a bit about the freedom of others. Sadly, societies cannot survive this way..... and we are living proof. And regarding: quote: *Excuse me, I am such an idiot.. Well what the hell are we IMPORTING nasty ass french goose livers for anyway?* *I personally make sure all my tortured animal flesh is USDA inspected.. LOL* It doesn't seem that we will be importing the goose liver to Chicago.... that's how such things begin. Many, many changes throughout history began with one voice.

nefertari -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 8:24:30 PM)
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=foie_gras_long That's why it's being banned in places. Can anyone tell me why it should be acceptable for any living thing that can feel pain AND fear to have to endure such torture for the pleasure of others? Why do I choose to fight to protect animals? Well, that is a matter of opinion and priorities. I choose to speak for those that can't speak for themselves. It doesn't mean I don't care about people suffering. It doesn't mean I sit back and let it happen. I can be and am involved in more than one cause at a time. I don't have to pick one or the other. That's just an excuse people use.

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 8:36:35 PM)
*Wow! I've never liked goose liver, but if the American terrorist organization PETA is opposed to it, I think I can acquire a taste for it after all.*

nefertari -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 8:43:09 PM)
A perfect example of why at times I prefer to fight for animals.

xGoddessx -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 8:46:22 PM)
Yes, I suppose if one doesn't like the news, it's much easier to attack the bearer of it. That pretty much makes everything okay, doesn't it? We can keep our eyes closed, shut it out, and it will all just go away. G

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 8:53:58 PM)
*Here is a video for those interested in PETA. Enjoy!* http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7562800910863882593

xGoddessx -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:04:32 PM)
I for one, don't believe that you must agree with a group as a whole, to still believe in the same cause. I am not fond of many methods that Peta carries out, yet I cannot throw away their cause as meaningless. I may not always agree with the ACLU, but I still believe we all have rights, no matter what color, sex, or religion we are. It's all sort of like "throwing out the baby with the bath water", or one of those old sayings.

nefertari -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:07:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xGoddessx I for one, don't believe that you must agree with a group as a whole, to still believe in the same cause. I am not fond of many methods that Peta carries out, yet I cannot throw away their cause as meaningless. I may not always agree with the ACLU, but I still believe we all have rights, no matter what color, sex, or religion we are. It's all sort of like "throwing out the baby with the bath water", or one of those old sayings. Exactly. And any intelligent person could tell the difference.

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:13:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xGoddessx I for one, don't believe that you must agree with a group as a whole, to still believe in the same cause. I am not fond of many methods that Peta carries out, yet I cannot throw away their cause as meaningless. I may not always agree with the ACLU, but I still believe we all have rights, no matter what color, sex, or religion we are. It's all sort of like "throwing out the baby with the bath water", or one of those old sayings. The ACLU doesn't advocate or fund blowing up buildings. I don't believe that the end justifies the means under circumstances like these. We don't need to worry so much about Al-Qaeda, we have terrorists enough here already, disquised as the animal rights movement.

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:15:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nefertari quote: ORIGINAL: xGoddessx I for one, don't believe that you must agree with a group as a whole, to still believe in the same cause. I am not fond of many methods that Peta carries out, yet I cannot throw away their cause as meaningless. I may not always agree with the ACLU, but I still believe we all have rights, no matter what color, sex, or religion we are. It's all sort of like "throwing out the baby with the bath water", or one of those old sayings. Exactly. And any intelligent person could tell the difference. *I would like to think that any intelligent person could tell the difference between the ACLU and a terrorist orginization too, but apparently they can't.*

xGoddessx -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:27:40 PM)
I am sure there are a few people that consider the ACLU exactly that. If one does not agree with any organizations methods, they brand them into a category that is unpleasant. What I am saying and it should be clear, is that to just do something that is morally wrong out of some sort of rebellion to the group that exposed it, is quite the childish way of dealing with things. Such as not liking a book a library carries, therefore refusing to step in the library again. Instead of just not reading that one book, you are missing out on a ton of knowledge. They may not have the best way of doing things, like I said, I don't agree with them in their methods. I have found though, that they have exposed and brought to light many things that would have been easily hidden otherwise. I don't think anyone can deny how much the worlds eyes have been opened by this so-called "terrorist" organization.

nefertari -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:31:52 PM)
Now someone is just being contrary. Doesn't serve one's point very well when one is just spouting off.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:35:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy quote: ORIGINAL: xGoddessx I for one, don't believe that you must agree with a group as a whole, to still believe in the same cause. I am not fond of many methods that Peta carries out, yet I cannot throw away their cause as meaningless. I may not always agree with the ACLU, but I still believe we all have rights, no matter what color, sex, or religion we are. It's all sort of like "throwing out the baby with the bath water", or one of those old sayings. The ACLU doesn't advocate or fund blowing up buildings. I don't believe that the end justifies the means under circumstances like these. We don't need to worry so much about Al-Qaeda, we have terrorists enough here already, disquised as the animal rights movement. Sure, there are whackos in every walk of life. I am not a fan of animal rights activist extremists.... but the fact that some are extreme, has nothing to do with the fact that animals are being needlessly tortured because the torture methods make them a tastier treat for the humans who eat them. Eat the animals if you so desire, but do it with human decency. Most Pro-Life activists still support their Pro Life cause even though some crazy fanatics bomb abortion clinics. People stick with their religion despite the fact that there is an epidemic of molesting priests and crazy evangelists. I support animal rights, even though I don't support the fanatics. The fact is, animal cruelty/torture is a problem, whether it is being pointed out by a fanatic or a non-fanatic.

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:39:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xGoddessx I am sure there are a few people that consider the ACLU exactly that. If one does not agree with any organizations methods, they brand them into a category that is unpleasant. What I am saying and it should be clear, is that to just do something that is morally wrong out of some sort of rebellion to the group that exposed it, is quite the childish way of dealing with things. Such as not liking a book a library carries, therefore refusing to step in the library again. Instead of just not reading that one book, you are missing out on a ton of knowledge. They may not have the best way of doing things, like I said, I don't agree with them in their methods. I have found though, that they have exposed and brought to light many things that would have been easily hidden otherwise. I don't think anyone can deny how much the worlds eyes have been opened by this so-called "terroist" organization. *Ok, lets try this again. The ACLU does NOT advocate or fund the fire bombing of bulidings, meaning that it is NOT a terrorist orginizatuion, regardless of what someone thinks about it.* PETA on the other hand HAS funded the fire bombing of buildings, and HAS sent one of their spokespeople into schools to teach CHILDREN how to make fire bombs. This means that they ARE a terrorist orginization, regardless of how much people want to deny it. These two groups are NOTHING ALIKE in their methods. Comparing PETA to the ACLU is like comparing National Socialism to Democracy, as both are forms of government. And speaking of Nazis, their scientists made great leaps in rocket technology, so while we don't have to agree with the Nazi's childish displays of violence, we should still give them a big thumbs up and support their cause because of their V2 program, right? That is what you are saying about PETA after all. I'll be more than happy to write my senator and condemn the cruelty of force feeding animals the minute that you write the FBI and ask that they do something about the terroristic PETA, deal? I don't think that force feeding is right, but two wrongs don't make a right, and PETA is one of the biggest wrongs out there. I donate to the Nature Conservancy and to Last Chance Forever, but would stop immediately were I to discover that any leader of either of those groups ever gave a penny to PETA.

Emperor1956 -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:40:57 PM)
The amount of misinformation you people will throw around is astounding. As someone who lives and works in the Chicago area, and has some actual connection to the ordinance (that means unlike all the forgoing posts, save MAYBE the OP, I've read it and the supporting/opposing material that was presented to the City Council) I note ONLY these 3 facts, and 2 opinions, and one mixed F/O: Fact 1. The ordinance bans the sale of a defined product (which works out to domestically produced or imported "foie gras") by resturants in Chicago. It does not ban the purchase of it in retail establishments that are not resturants, the giving it away (which is going on) or the serving of it. The gaps in allowing stores to sell it and resturants to prepare it but not sell it are the subject of litigation as to "fairness". Fact 2. Leather is a huge industry that exists apart from the meat industry. Animals are slaughtered only to obtain their leather all the time, and some leather bearing animals are kept in a restricted manner to preserve the skins from scars and marks. That would seem cruel too. Think about that the next time you go out and buy your leather fetish. If you tell yourself your leather goods are OK because the cow was dying anyway, you are justifying yourself. Fact 3. No geese are used to make foie gras in the USA -- the entire domestic production is duck liver (I know this doesn't make it less cruel, but in fact domestic, bred for table ducks are used and not wild or domestic geese.) By the way, the two most common food duck breeds (the "Pekin" and the "Rouen") in the USA have been bred naturally (no genetic alteration than by breeding and no hormones) to put so much meat on their breasts at an early age that they effectively cannot fly past about age 6 mo. I suppose that is cruel, too? One Opinion: I think there are far more important issues for the Chicago City Council to address and the health department to enforce (it is a resturant ordinance so enforcement is "code" not police). Oh, and I actually lean towards Iron Bear on this one, God help Me! Another Opinion: I don't know that it is a cruel practice. The PETA photos are apparently quite old and doctored (according to well-respected witnesses) or at the minimum show the practice from the worst possible perspective (according to other witnesses). And no geese or ducks testified at the Council hearings. Yes, it looks cruel, and overall I agree that having foie gras is unnecessary. But so are cigars, good brandy and whipping someone until they cry....all of which are things that I love, and are subject to being banned in the wink of some overblown Alderman's eye. Oh and one last fact: From USA TODAY, recently: And the FBI said in June that eco-terrorism — acts of violence, sabotage or property damage motivated by concern for animals or the environment — was the nation's top domestic terrorism threat. The bureau said then that eco-terrorists had committed more than 1,100 criminal acts and caused property damage estimated at least $110 million since 1976. I'd be really careful of the company I keep. E

Bearlee -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:56:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 ...having foie gras is unnecessary. But so are cigars, good brandy and whipping someone until they cry....all of which are things that I love... [&:]

xGoddessx -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 9:58:48 PM)
I have also heard that many things, or at least some are doctored. I can't say that I don't believe that. They would not be the first group ever to do so, to further their cause. However, to find out what goes on in a slaughterhouse, or a factory farm is not something you need them to find out for you. It all comes down to the fact that these animals are being treated in a totally inhumane way. That cannot be disputed no matter who you are. There is no reason for it and as the humans that were made over the animals, it is our place to protect them. They cannot do it themselves, they are no different than children in that regard. If we don't step-up and make a difference in this world, who will?

nefertari -> RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver (8/23/2006 10:00:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy PETA on the other hand HAS funded the fire bombing of buildings, and HAS sent one of their spokespeople into schools to teach CHILDREN how to make fire bombs. This means that they ARE a terrorist orginization, regardless of how much people want to deny it. These two groups are NOTHING ALIKE in their methods. Comparing PETA to the ACLU is like comparing National Socialism to Democracy, as both are forms of government. And speaking of Nazis, their scientists made great leaps in rocket technology, so while we don't have to agree with the Nazi's childish displays of violence, we should still give them a big thumbs up and support their cause because of their V2 program, right? That is what you are saying about PETA after all. I'll be more than happy to write my senator and condemn the cruelty of force feeding animals the minute that you write the FBI and ask that they do something about the terroristic PETA, deal? I don't think that force feeding is right, but two wrongs don't make a right, and PETA is one of the biggest wrongs out there. I donate to the Nature Conservancy and to Last Chance Forever, but would stop immediately were I to discover that any leader of either of those groups ever gave a penny to PETA. The man in question was not a spokesperson for PETA. He was not employed by PETA. Did you watch your own video link? He had his own separate organization that PETA supplied funding to. PETA is a huge multi-national organization and cannot possible know every action that every organization they supply funding to is taking. Just like those fanatics that bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors were funded by some like-minded yet not fanatic or violent group. Just like the US Government provided funding and training to Osama bin Laden. The cause was supported, not the subsequent actions. Gee, when I go to the PETA website I am asked to write polite letters to officers of corporations, legislators, etc. How horrifying. They have made a difference on a large scale and continue to do so. Companies such as McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's have changed their practices because of PETA. They are supported by large corporations such as the Limited. If PETA were a terrorist organization they wouldn't have the credibility to accomplish all that they have. I'm sure there are plenty of fanatics who are members of PETA. There are fanatics everywhere. You have to separate the two.

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