RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/25/2006 10:22:46 PM

FangsNfeet

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Two buildings equal two countries. That's how the USA plays the game. Bin Laden, how long do you want to keep playing? We are already licking our chops at Iran so come on, it's your move.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/25/2006 10:32:03 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fosterpiti

OK here's fundamental truth for you. Liberals will NEVER solve a problem, they throw money at it to show they are concerned, but if the issuse is resolved, they can no longer use it politically. Case in point, Al Gore and Education, he screwed up on this one by pointing out how dismal our education system is, but he didn't have any real good answers when asked " What have you been doing about it as Vice President for EIGHT years"

Perhaps you can take a minute and tell us all just what problems the current administration has solved? I know that they solved that pesky fiscal surplus problem and instead replaced it with the largest deficit the country has ever seen, but I'm guessing that's not the kind of "solving" that you had in mind. Do share.

~stef

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 12:59:26 AM

WhipTheHip

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> Tossed on the back burner so that Bush could go after the man who tried to kill his daddy.

Bush's daddy just happened to be an ex-president of the United States. Trying to kill the
former leader of the US is an act of war, and we should have taken Saddam out for that
reason alone. When you live in jungle, you have to stand up for yourself, or you tell
predators they can attack you with impugnity. You can't afford to appear weak or
indecisive. I didn't vote for either Bush, but I've learned the hard way, the more you allow
others to take potshots at you, the more people will shoot in your direction.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 1:20:08 AM

Kedicat

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But the US and other colonial and imperial powers that F'd over those folks for 50+ years had absolutely nothing to do with it.
They hate our freedoms. Not at all the continuous denial of their freedoms.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 2:21:24 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

Trying to kill the
former leader of the US is an act of war, and we should have taken Saddam out for that
reason alone.

How many acts of war has the USA commited if this is the case? Too many to count I think. Thanks for pointing out to us all that the USA is a pariah state.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 7:01:23 AM

WhipTheHip

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There are a lot of people here that obviously hate the United States.
If the majority was like them we would be living in a country like
the old USSR or Iran or N. Korea. They remind me of Harvey
Oswald who didn't have enough bad things to say about the US,
then went to the Soviet Union only to be kicked out. Or all the
other people who defected to Cuba, Soviet Union, and N.
Korea, only to find life in their utopia state was a nightmare.
I am a major critic of many US policies, but some people
are really just completely naive and way out there in left field.

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 8/26/2006 7:03:25 AM >

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 7:07:42 AM

CrappyDom

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I guess the saying "smart as a whip" isn't overly true, either that or they are just innanimate objects...

By your own definition, Saddam was legally allowed to try and assinate Bush because we had done the same to him.

Can you even count high enough to show how many world leaders we have tried to assinate? You only have to count Castro once although we have tried a few hundred times.

I don't hate America, I just hate scum like Bush and his supporters.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 7:15:02 AM

CrappyDom

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There ARE problems liberals have trouble dealing with.

How to deal with massive debts brought on by Republicans like Raygun and Bush
Repair moral deficits brought on by Republicans like Nixon, Raygun, and Bush
Repair the damage from idiots who deal with terrorists secretly and then cut and run (guess who?)
Deal with stupid peacekeeping missions which are poorly disguised raids on oil, and no I am not talking about this Bush.
Massive damage to the environment
Massive damage to the economy, it wasn't Democrats who brought on the great depression
The massive dissarming of America thanks to Republicans who left us nearly defenseless prior to WWII
The horrible overuse and underfunding of our current military
The exodus of trained officers and NCOs out of the current military
The abandonment of future weapons programs to deal with day to day expenses in "pay for its own reconstruction" Iraq.
The abandoned hunt for Osama
The abandonment by Raygun and his fellow Republicans of the programs to make us energy independent

I could go on, but can anyone name anything good done by a republican other than two moderate ones, one of which was thrown out of the party for not being supportive enough of monopolies?
\

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 7:25:25 AM

Arpig

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quote:

Trying to kill the
former leader of the US is an act of war

Why is it an act of war, he is a FORMER leader, I was under the impression that once somebody had finished serving in the US government, they returned to being an ordinary citizen, or are all your ex-presidents somehow sacrosanct for life?

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 7:42:21 AM

PlayfulOne

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Still clinging to the stories instead of dealing with the truth are we Whip? Iraq had less than nothing to do with 9/11. What weapons of mass destruction was he going to share with terrorist? Oh yes that ignores the fact we found none. Sadam was a threat to no one here. Personally if he wanted to run rough shod over his own people that was there problem. I don't see us jumping nto Dafar to save those people.

Listen closley, EVEN IF, Sadam had those weapons he would never have shared them with any terrorist group and WE DAMN WELL KNEW THAT, it was no secret, just the truth the people in charge here ignored to get their way. Sadam ran a secular goverment not an Islamic one and the same terrorist who hate us despied and hated him. Sadam liked to look all powerful and menancing but under the surface never planned on doing anything that would have evoked an attack from us. Anyone who clams otherwise is a fool or a liar who just choses to ignore the facts, much like those in power at this moment here in the USA.

Iraq is in shambles (with the Generals conflicting the administrations views on whether it is in Civil War), Afghanistan is still by most reports under control of the Taliban once you get away from the major cities, and you are foolish enough to suggest Iran should be next. You didn't notice Iran flexing their muscle in Lebanon just to see what we would do?

Ever find it funny that of the Evil Bush pointed out we attacked the one who DID NOT have any nuclear weapons or programs?

You should be ashamed for suggesting in any way those that disagree with you or this administration hate America. That just shows you are cut from the same despicable cloth as the current administration.

K

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 8:04:03 AM

meatcleaver

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I don't hate the US. I just get pissed off with people who have a totally uncritical view of their country, be they Americans, Russians, Chineese, Brits, whoever.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 9:30:39 AM

philosophy

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"Trying to kill the
former leader of the US is an act of war, and we should have taken Saddam out for that
reason alone."

"How many acts of war has the USA commited if this is the case?"

just to remind you whip, but you missed this question. Do other countries have the same rights to self defence as America?

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 10:15:03 AM

caitlyn

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It's not that Americans have an uncritical view of our country meatcleaver ... its that some people here seem to have an expectation that rules should apply evenly between all nations.

As nice an "idea" as that might be (and it would be a good one, in my opinion), it is also completely unrealistic. There has never been a time in history where the hyper powerful didn't make their own rules. The reason for this is simple. Nobody else is powerful enough to enforce rules on them. Oh sure, nations can gang up, but that's like having ten people rush someone with six bullets in their gun. There tends to be some difficulty deciding which six people will go first.

This is at the core of most of these very friendly, and yet spirited debates in here. You hear it again and again ... "international law" ... "Doesn't (insert nation) have the right to (insert event) just like the United States?" ... "fairness."

I'm sorry the world is the way it is ... but it still is. The powereful write the rules, and the rest bitch about it. That's the way it's always been, it's like that now, and it'll always be that way.

So ... it's not so much that Americans have a uncritical view of our country. Many of us are highly critical. At the same time, we also recognize that generally, we are a pretty nice and pretty friendly super power, in what has been a historically neither nice, or friendly group.

What do you suppose the Romans would have done, had a leader of a small nation like Iran, stood up and said some of the things he has said? How about the Byzantines? Carolingians? Sassainids? Hohenstaufens? Ottomans?

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 10:35:43 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne

Still clinging to the stories instead of dealing with the truth are we Whip? Iraq had less than nothing to do with 9/11. What weapons of mass destruction was he going to share with terrorist? Oh yes that ignores the fact we found none. Sadam was a threat to no one here. Personally if he wanted to run rough shod over his own people that was there problem. I don't see us jumping nto Dafar to save those people.

Listen closley, EVEN IF, Sadam had those weapons he would never have shared them with any terrorist group and WE DAMN WELL KNEW THAT, it was no secret, just the truth the people in charge here ignored to get their way. Sadam ran a secular goverment not an Islamic one and the same terrorist who hate us despied and hated him. Sadam liked to look all powerful and menancing but under the surface never planned on doing anything that would have evoked an attack from us. Anyone who clams otherwise is a fool or a liar who just choses to ignore the facts, much like those in power at this moment here in the USA.

I'm not a liar, nor do I consider myself overly foolish.

Iraq is in shambles (with the Generals conflicting the administrations views on whether it is in Civil War), Afghanistan is still by most reports under control of the Taliban once you get away from the major cities, and you are foolish enough to suggest Iran should be next. You didn't notice Iran flexing their muscle in Lebanon just to see what we would do?

Ever find it funny that of the Evil Bush pointed out we attacked the one who DID NOT have any nuclear weapons or programs?

A valid point, but another one is that Iraq was the only one of the three to prove its belligerence, in both attacking Iran, and Kuwait.

You should be ashamed for suggesting in any way those that disagree with you or this administration hate America. That just shows you are cut from the same despicable cloth as the current administration.

Hmm. Whip calls those he disagrees with hateful, for which he's criticized, but you call those you disagree with "despicable".

K

< Message edited by Level -- 8/26/2006 10:36:43 AM >

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 12:38:26 PM

RiotGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

We invaded Iraq because 9/11 alerted to the reality that Islamic
terrorists would attack us in the most horrific way possible if
given the chance. And we didn't trust Saddam Hussein, not
to provide terrorists with WMD. The time to stop an enemy
from acquiring weapons WMD is before they get them.
Saddam was only cooperating with us when we had all
our forces poised on his border. We couldn't do this
indefinitely.

actually.. the lasted that floated in my way was that it was all engineered by the CIA.

lol

Who knows.. and you know the real truth will prolly not be known to the public for a long long time.

Tho i am sure SOME one did it. Who?

Gawd.. who killed JFK? Does knowing really change anything? Have we gotten rid of our CIA or the Mafia?

Conspiracy theories and "who dun it" is a dime a dozen in this country!

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 1:41:14 PM

CrappyDom

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caitlyn,

For someone with such an amazing grasp of history you seem rather blind to things.

Historically, how do other countries deal with superpowers?
Why has that been different the last half century?
Historically, what is it that superpowers do that ends their rein?
Why do you see what we are doing today differently?
Rome built itself as much by alliances and offering a better standard of living as they did by conquest and conquest is very very expensive.

We, as a superpower have used the World Bank and the IMF, as well at the WTO as proxies to force our way into countries and exploit them, we could do it because the global economy was growing by leaps and bounds and did not face any serious resource isssues. Today, neither of those is true. So our ability to at least pretend to be altruistic is ending and how do you see this affecting our and others alliances?

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/26/2006 3:49:55 PM

meatcleaver

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America is pretty nice and frendly because you are American. Western Europe since the war have been American client states though more subtley than East European countries have been client states of the USSR so the people who feel they benefited from their government kow towing to the US are pro-American, those that feel they haven't are anti-American and those that have some national pride hate their government for being vassals. The rich and powerful in Europe were happy to take sides with the USA because allying themselves with the USA would protect their wealth from socialists or commies or whoever else their paranoia had them imagining might steal it, the weaker members of nations have to put up or shut up. It is the way empires work.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/27/2006 5:57:11 PM

caitlyn

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We are in agreement ... this is very much how empires work.

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RE: Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - 8/28/2006 3:49:05 AM

NorthernGent

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The Western European/US realtionship since WW2 is summed up quite well.

I would add that the reason why Britain has developed into the biggest ally of the US is because we are the nation in Western Europe with the biggest wealth divide between classes. Thus, our ruling classes had/have the most to lose from Socialism - by allying themselves with the US our ruling classes were effectively preserving the status quo and their personal wealth/social standing (through the common ground and shared, collective message of individualism).

Regards

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