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Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:06:48 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		I have studied various dictionaries for these two words:  'Humiliation' and 'Degradation', as well as associated words and come up with pretty much what I thought.

  • The act of humiliation is more along the lines of embarrassing someone.

  • The act of degradation is more along the lines of debasing someone.

I like humiliation…It’s kinda funny, light (usually…though it can be intense); mostly it causes a bright blush…though sometimes tears.  It might be something like walking on a leash, perhaps standing in a corner, maybe being told to do something silly in front of others or put to impossibly frustrating tasks.  I see it as simple loss of control; teasing.
 
In my mind, degradation is about assaulting a person’s worth; it includes name calling, perhaps yelling and slapping, maybe getting urinated on in the face or over the head, or having nasty words written upon the person.  I see it as intense and morally horrifying.
 
I have sobbed hard on more than one humiliating experience, but it still seemed to me nowhere near degradation.  Degradation or debasement implies a destruction of value, worth, dignity.  Humiliation implies being embarrassed…even mightily.  Still, they are kind of related, aren’t they?  But, I believe all things are relative and, for me, degradation is just over the top; even though I’m aware some love it.
 
I used to have it as a hard limit…till I discovered allowing someone to take control of me, even in an embarrassing manner…can be lots of fun (even cathartic).  I’m curious if this has helped anybody see that maybe all is not what we think; that all things are relative…and sometimes humiliation is fun?     Dialogue?  Experiences? 

Let’s talk…
beverly
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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:12:03 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		And sometimes what you see as horrifying is exactly what a person needs to regain thier perspective as a mere human being.

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:14:56 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		The difference is all in the mind of the one being humiliated/degraded

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:15:19 PM   
ToServeIsToLive


Posts: 222
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		I would think what some consider humilating others would consider degrading, and some might find the same activity to be neither so attempting to make general lists of what is and isn't is probably a personal thing (nothing wrong with that though).

In the short relationship I had, I was with people who looked down on humiliation and I'm not desperate to seek it out so it's not something I can comment on from direct experience.

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:17:06 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		my only comment is that each person's idea of degradation is different, being urinated on my face or head, body writing, being called some names (not things like stupid, worthless, but other names) to me is not degrading, but rather is a turn on. Although i agree with your definition of degrading, in that what a person finds degrading hurts their sense of worth, i personally don't find the actions you mentioned degrading, they fall under the category of humiliation play to me. And i enjoy humiliation play with someone who i know cares about me as a person. 

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:22:52 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I've not given a lot of thought to *degradation* really.........some of the things you mentioned (not name-calling*) can happen to me but in the security of my relationship they really are humiliating, not degrading.

I can't imagine being degraded, as such; not as a person, not in terms of my *worth*.......nothing that takes place makes me think less of myself, so I can't see it as *degrading*.

I'm sure that some people may view some of what takes place between us as degrading but it really can only BE so if *I* feel it.

agirl

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:24:05 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		Fast Reply:
 
LOL  You are all making great sense!  Of course it's personal!   
 
I shoulda said that!  Funny, I absolutely love watersports...but not in my face or over my head; there is something just NOT NICE about that...(to ME).   LMAO  I shoulda known one person's degradation is another's humiliation, I guess!  Sheeshhhh
 
But... so many say they are absolutely not into humiliation and I just wondered if they'd see that there IS some give & take in what is just a little embarrasing; teasing if you will...and what is more harsh play; and perhaps see that perhaps some of it can be fun?
 
beverly

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:26:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Literally "humiliation" means "bringing someone down to the soil."  (It's related to words like "humble" and "exhume.")  I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with embarrassment.  ("Degradation," for what it's worth, means "reducing someone's rank/status"--knocking them down a few steps.)

But I also think everyone's sense of the difference between humiliation and degradation is going to vary--if they even conceive of any.  To me, they're pretty similar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

The act of humiliation is more along the lines of embarrassing someone.

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:31:30 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		These topics are one of the jumping off points between anything remotely connected with a vanilla relationship and one that resembles WIITWD.

Yes, we get to know one another.  But we also delve deep into one's psyche, and push it, pull it, manipulate it, and basically just out-and-out fuck with it.

Bearlee, I believe your definitions are spot-on.  In practice, however, the lines become a little more blurred.  I consider myself fairly 'out there' in what I will do with/to a partner.  However, as much as I get inside someone's head, I don't wish to really 'damage' them.

It takes some knowledge of the person to know where to toe the line.  In my experience, with a reasonably adventurous submissive, you can say or do to get away with a lot, as long as you are not insulting them on a personal level.  I think you can 'do' an enormous amount of things with a person, specifically women, but you need to be a little more careful with what one 'says'.

(The reason why I say this (about women) is that I believe you can say any number of really ugly things to men and they won't react badly.  Externally or internally.  I do see that distinction between the sexes.)

I think during the getting-to-know-you phase AND the 'negotiation' phase (which could be two distinct timeframes) this is something that needs to be explored, to the extent that it is an interest to one party or another.

Jeff

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:32:55 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Fast Reply:
 
LOL  You are all making great sense!  Of course it's personal!   
 
I shoulda said that!  Funny, I absolutely love watersports...but not in my face or over my head; there is something just NOT NICE about that...(to ME).   LMAO  I shoulda known one person's degradation is another's humiliation, I guess!  Sheeshhhh
 
But... so many say they are absolutely not into humiliation and I just wondered if they'd see that there IS some give & take in what is just a little embarrasing; teasing if you will...and what is more harsh play; and perhaps see that perhaps some of it can be fun?
 
beverly
An ultimate symbolic act of ownership can be pissing directly into the upturned face of a bound sub. It says "nothing of you is beyond my ability to mark, and make mine."

< Message edited by Homestead -- 8/25/2006 3:33:19 PM >

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:48:05 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		Ahhhh... I like that 'delve deep...push...pull...fuck with it'!   <grinz>
 
But, yanno...I saw Phantom and FemCar at Thunder this year, and you'd be really surprised how far SHE enjoys going!  WOW
 
So...I really, really do know (and even admire) the differences in what people do with each other; it just seems bad that some lump ALL of this 'kind' of play as too over the top.  It seems a shame when some of it can be so fun...and it can also be awesome when our bounderies get challenged, no?
 
mstrijx, your comment "I think during the getting-to-know-you phase AND the 'negotiation' phase (which could be two distinct timeframes) this is something that needs to be explored, to the extent that it is an interest to one party or another." outta be yet another topic!  So many don't understand that real submission; TPE takes time.  Trust to go to these places doesn't happen overnight, does it?
 
Thank you, Sir
beverly
 
 

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 3:53:55 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I wouldn't find that at all degrading, no. He can pee where he wishes....lol.

I think that if he called me a *worthless cunt* or something equally harsh, that I'd feel hurt. He's never, ever done that kind of thing to me.

In fact it's all rather odd and never ceases to side-swipe me that he's so very kind and so hideously awful at the same time......lol.

agirl

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 4:01:13 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		Oh yes, there's a definite art to it.

When Satan and Jesus have a teaparty, the very best Doms attend as well.

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 4:38:26 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Oh yes, there's a definite art to it.

When Satan and Jesus have a teaparty, the very best Doms attend as well.


LOL..Well, someone once DID accuse me of having my Master *right up there next to Jesus*.....

agirl

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 6:45:13 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		I wrote an entire essay on this very topic and also shared it here in the forums sometime ago.  You can find that essay here.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_354018/mpage_1/tm.htm#354294

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 7:28:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Years ago in the 1980's I met a woman at a bar.
We went to her house, started making love and she told me that what she "really liked and wanted" was for me to talk real dirty to her while fucking her.
I said ok and started in; "You fuckin moron, you idiot!"
Says she; "Noooooo, not like THAT!"

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 7:33:38 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		LOL Popeye!  So what did you counter with?

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 7:40:48 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Bandit, the usual; "fuckin slut, tramp, cock whore."
That was in my drinking days.

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 8:07:32 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		interesting thread..  i have been both humiliated and degraded (won't go into specifics).  Both are great, however, in my humble opinion, it cannot be just humiliation and degradation all the time... both of those things have to be backed-up with appreciation.  i am probably stating the obvious, but there are those that think it is ok to do nothing but humiliate and degrade. 

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RE: Humiliation vs. Degradation - 8/25/2006 8:10:08 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

interesting thread..  i have been both humiliated and degraded (won't go into specifics).  Both are great, however, in my humble opinion, it cannot be just humiliation and degradation all the time... both of those things have to be backed-up with appreciation.  i am probably stating the obvious, but there are those that think it is ok to do nothing but humiliate and degrade. 


The purpose of bringing down to base is to give a firmer footing to grow up from once more. Not keep one under a rock to die.

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