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RE: Minimum Wage - 8/27/2006 8:17:03 PM

nefertari

Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servitude69

This is the best time in our Nations history to find a good job. The unemployment rate is about 4.7%. It has never been lower. There are jobs out there if the McDonalds gig doesn't work out for you

Interesting. I hear this argument when politicians talk about how strong the economy is, too. So explain, if that is indeed the case, why foreclosure rates are at an all time high with Ohio and Michigan leading the country. Unemployment rates don't include those who no longer qualify for benefits. It also does not indicate stagnant wages.

6 or 7 years ago Ohio was at full employment. Employers couldn't find good people to fill their positions and wages went up dramatically. Not the case today. More people needing jobs than there are jobs available. If there are 10 people lined up outside willing to do your job at $5.15 an hour, most companies don't find much incentive in giving fair raises. BTW, I don't consider $ .25 an hour a fair raise (what a friend of mine received as a raise last year for a company where he has worked for 18 years).

(in reply to servitude69)

Post #: 101

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/27/2006 8:21:13 PM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Overall though I use the statistics as proof that the market forces have already raised the defacto minimum wage due to increased competition for workers, and that trend will continue, since the Baby Boomers are retiring and the cometition for workers is only going to increase without anything being done to the minimum wage law.

True, but those workers are likely to be looking at much higher taxes to pay for the Boomers.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 102

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/27/2006 8:45:44 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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I live in Omaha, NE - and although the minimum wage is $5.15, nobody pays that - they pay at least $6.50 or $7 an hour, with the average wage for low-skilled jobs being closer to $8.50-9 an hour. Employers here simply cannot get people to work much for $5.15 an hour, and they know that.

Having said that, I still think it should be raised to something like $7 or 8 an hour, at least. If this puts some employers out of business, oh well. That is called Capitalism - if they're not profitable enough to withstand it, they must not be doing a very great job being an enterprenuer, then.

The audacity of Congress and the Senate, raising their own salaries, and then even debating whether this needs to be done is ludicrous to me. I'd like to see them all in subsidized housing, living on food stamps for at least two weeks, as punishment, along with ther families.

I wonder what would happen if it was raised to $10 or $11 an hour.
I wonder if the sky would really fall, as some seem to predict it would. Maybe what would happen instead, is it would just become a new standard - a living wage - and over time, new businesses, and older ones, would simply learn to adjust, and cut costs elsewhere, in order to survive. Maybe some would close. Such is life.
It's a thought, anyway.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2006 8:53:36 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 103

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/27/2006 8:53:10 PM

subexploring

Posts: 103
Joined: 12/28/2005
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At least 2 million workers paid hourly report earning at or below the Federal minimum, less than 2% of the labor force (not sure where people are getting 500,000). It could be a million or two more if you added in people paid on a week or yearly basis. It's impossible to tell the exact number, it has to be inferred from survey responses about total earnings which are often a bit off one way or another.

Any way you count it the number is small enough that you wouldn't expect raising the minimum wage to have a large effect on inflation. Labor/compensation costs are generally less than half total production costs in the economy, and as I just said only a small minority of workers would have their compensation costs affected by the minimum wage increase. I'm sort of mystified by people who say in one post that the minimum wage doesn't affect a lot of people and in another that raising it would lead to all sorts of horrible consequences on prices. You can't have it both ways.

You could expect an "echo effect" of a minimum wage increase on other workers who made close to the minimum, people earning within a couple of dollars of the current minimum would also get a raise. So the impact of a minimum wage increase would spill over into some or all of the 10 million full time workers who earn below $17.5 K a year. Adding them into the effects of a minimum wage increase would mean that as many as 10% of the labor force could be affected.

By the way, the amount we've spent on the Iraq war would have compensated employers for all the costs of raising the minimum wage $2 an hour for at least a full decade. At least. That includes a generous allowance for the echo or spillover effects of the minimum wage increase on other workers. Actually, it's almost a bad comparison to make since the Iraq war spending is mostly a waste of resources while raising the minimum wage is almost purely a transfer from one group of Americans to another.

< Message edited by subexploring -- 8/27/2006 9:03:36 PM >

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 104

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/27/2006 8:58:43 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

Heck, I'd settle for a wage that allows me to get health care. Or a job with benifits that are good enough I can get the medication I need.

I guess I'm disillusioned about raises from working for corporations for years. Especially ones that, right around review time, start writing employees up for, well, for anything, in order to get more negative comments in their files. I dunno. I've just seen too many good people not get raises because the company they work for activly encourages managment NOT to give raises.

I maintain, though, that a lot of us are stuck because there's too many people who want too few jobs. Again, this is experience in college towns only. I know that their population dynamics are way different than in other places.

I am -incredibly- impressed by anyone who could get through college without financial aid. Very impressed. I have no idea how it's possible. My expenses this year will be around $10,000 to go to grad school at a public university. Last year, I made about 75% of that in the whole year, working full time. I'd never, ever be able to go to school without finanical aid and subsidized loans.

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~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 105

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/27/2006 9:14:51 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

All of this tells (me) that this "Global Economy" stuff just doesn't work.
It's just like "NAFTA" a disaster!
What good are cheap products if people can't afford them?
And why is the govt. so concerned about "the consumer?"
It's not the govt's job to be worried about the consumer.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 106

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/27/2006 9:28:09 PM

openmindedslave

Posts: 470
Joined: 2/27/2005
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The wage set up is really sort of meanless when it comes to what it really cost to get and keep workers. Every employer that pays to the employe a minumum wage is ofcourse paying more than that amount in other benefits and taxes. Raising it because the goverment says the whole country needs a new rate , should mean everybody in the country should have pretty m,uch the same cost of living .. We all know its not that way . And it can't be that way. And never will be that way

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 107

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 1:29:21 AM

TreSwank

Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline

Jesus Christ...........reading this thread almost makes CT sound like a pleasant place to live. Even the unskilled, non-English speaking employees at my place of employment don't make less than $9.00 an hour. I'm surprised that the rest of the country is paying these shit wages. Yikes!!!

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 108

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 2:33:03 AM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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I have frequently read the argument that raising minimum wage causes prices to rise but if employers could take the wider view that wouldn't happen. Goods need to be sold and if there is limited purchasing power in the economy then they wont be, no incentive to even bother making them either. Thats a fact, whichever side of the political spectrum you support.

Just because K Marx may have pointed it out doesn't make it wrong.

Of course its a bit of a problem when international competitors have lower REAL wage rates and the skills to produce hi tech goods. That just means that the balance of power is shifting...as indeed it clearly is.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 8/28/2006 2:38:31 AM >

(in reply to TreSwank)

Post #: 109

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 4:09:24 AM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I have frequently read the argument that raising minimum wage causes prices to rise but if employers could take the wider view that wouldn't happen. Goods need to be sold and if there is limited purchasing power in the economy then they wont be, no incentive to even bother making them either. Thats a fact, whichever side of the political spectrum you support.

Just because K Marx may have pointed it out doesn't make it wrong.

Of course its a bit of a problem when international competitors have lower REAL wage rates and the skills to produce hi tech goods. That just means that the balance of power is shifting...as indeed it clearly is.

Good point, seeks. Globalization brings about some positive things, but it also acts to depress wages in advanced countries. Are we willing to accept that, or do we even have a choice?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 110

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 4:20:47 AM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Of course its a bit of a problem when international competitors have lower REAL wage rates and the skills to produce hi tech goods. That just means that the balance of power is shifting...as indeed it clearly is.

That's one reason I'm about to return to school. I make a pretty decent living for my job title (although no where near enough for my job description). I recently moved and believed that the difference in cost of living was somewhere near what the COLA calculators suggested. I ended up taking a 1/3 paycut. That's 1/3 what I was making. I believed that would be enough to live on because of the alleged COLA differences. After I got here I realized COLA wasn't THAT much cheaper, although I started at the top end of the wage scale for my current job in this area. Essentially, when I lived in the more expensive place my skills were more in demand I was able to get significantly more money. Now my skills and education put me at a level I am not happy with.

I'm going back to school to learn a trade that many large companies outsource because there isn't enough skilled people from the US to do it. I'm going to learn a trade that will enable me to pretty much write my own ticket (at least by my current standards). I'm going to work full time and go to school full time so I can get out in under a year and get to work. I may have to cut back my hours worked, which could mean taking another job at lower pay. In the end I will be STARTING at twice my current salary in a very in demand field, so I figure a year of poverty is worth it.

My personal preference is that those who work at mcdonalds be required to speak discernible english while working at a mcdonalds in the U.S. I think of it as a 'basic skill set' for most jobs in the U.S.. I disagree that companies should be forced to pay more for unskilled labor, but if unskilled is the only people who will work for that wage, and the company is willing to deal with the crazy turn over, then at least pay a wage that folks can live on. At the current cost of living in most areas of this country I can't see where the current minimum wage is a living, in fact in most cases it won't pay for daycare for one child. What incentive does an unskilled single mother have to get off welfare if she can't do any better, and in many cases much worse, than welfare and working the system perhaps in illegal ways?

Education and understanding your job market is key. If you see a need, and can fill it, you will never be without work. What are the needs in your (the minimum wage worker) area and what are you doing to prepare yourself to take your slice of that pie?

Let me give you a hint - it's spelled IT.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 111

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 8:15:10 AM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

MizSuz.. having looked at your profile I think you look so intelligent the skies the limit. for you.
So Miz....Can I serve you.....lol.

By the way programming is very very very tedious. True !! Results are spectacular tho'
Whats that got to do with minimum wage ? I dunno.

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 112

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 10:56:47 AM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

By the way programming is very very very tedious. True !! Results are spectacular tho'

Network engineering and security is not so tedious, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Whats that got to do with minimum wage ? I dunno.

<smile> It's where I come from.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 113

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 10:58:54 AM

MistresC

Posts: 2
Joined: 8/28/2006
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I need a personal slave, who wants to volunteer to serve me????
MistresC

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 114

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 11:12:43 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresC

I need a personal slave, who wants to volunteer to serve me????
MistresC

Volunteer hell, they're going to demand minimum wage.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MistresC)

Post #: 115

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 11:15:48 AM

Powerman40

Posts: 510
Joined: 7/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresC

I need a personal slave, who wants to volunteer to serve me????
MistresC

Well... If I wasn't a Dominant male I might volunteer..

(in reply to MistresC)

Post #: 116

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 11:20:55 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresC

I need a personal slave, who wants to volunteer to serve me????
MistresC

Me! Me! Me!

Quick question - do I need to be housebroken?

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to MistresC)

Post #: 117

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 2:12:52 PM

openmindedslave

Posts: 470
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

The relaity is for so many is also if your getting paid minumum wage and the guy down the street is paying a little more ofr the same work, then the employee has all the power in leaving one job for another.

Pay wise, I see McDonalds is paying up to 40,000 for Managers. Owners and managers all had to be grunts at one time or another. They worked for minium or something close to it.

And yes it does come down to what the economy will bare. If we can't pay for the goods and services than we won't buy them . We don't buy them and the jobs are lost and so is the company. case closed

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 118

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 2:24:10 PM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

Openminded...are not McDonalds franchises?...ie the "managers" make an investment and then may be able to pay themselves 40K. Am I right? Not really sure.

One company going bust doesnt matter much...thousands going the same way is serious.

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 119

RE: Minimum Wage - 8/28/2006 5:16:13 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: openmindedslave

The relaity is for so many is also if your getting paid minumum wage and the guy down the street is paying a little more ofr the same work, then the employee has all the power in leaving one job for another.

Sure, but what if the job down the street -isn't- paying anymore?

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 120

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