RE: not obeying a mistress

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AcademyForSlaves -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/1/2006 9:52:25 PM)
The best way to please a Mistress is to obey her. When a so-called "slave" disobeys me, tries to anger me, or manipulates me, I can usually tell he is hoping to be punished. I do not like my strings being pulled. It is selfish, manipulating, and an attempt to top-from-the-bottom. It makes me want to disown him instead of punish him. Real slaves respect the commands of the Mistress and do not want to disobey, disrespect, or upset the Mistress. Serve your Mistress, not your fetish.

shamedmale -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/2/2006 1:32:51 AM)
yes thats true but as in everything in life there must be a limit to this obedience. i mean to me Mistresses who demand that a slave works twelve hours a day or who drag their men out on leashes or lock them up in a jail cell are not worthy of obedience. The following are other practices which i feel degrade both slave and mistress and no one should have any respect for torturing a slave cock and ball torture beating a slave slapping a male spanking a male starvation of slaves ( yes ive even seen mistresses on this site who say that they get off by starving male slaves) any cruel degrading punishment which strips a man of his dignity In short I dont think Mistresses who demand absolute obedience should be obeyed. After all this is just replacing one form of tyranny , that of male dominance with another absolute female dominance and is manifestly wrong. At the end of the day we are all equal and the idea that man is inferior to woman- an idea propagated by certain women on this site is equally spurious. Having said that if a man wishes to have these things done to him, then its consensual and its ok. It s where a Mistress pushes or exceeds a person's limits without that person's consent, thats when I think there is a n abuse of power and is one of the reasons why I have not visited a dominatrix in the Uk or America , there are not too many in Ireland where I live and the ones I have contacted have not replied, I feel there is always a possibility that I could be violated and or hurt and I dont want to take that risk. After all my idea of fun/punishment and certain females idea of fun/punishment would be completely different. To elaborate I would be more in favour of gentler play and am not a masochist. And to be honest if a slave is wilfully disobedient of a Mistress's reasonable requests, not including the practices I have just mentioned, then the best thing to do is for both to go their separate ways. They are obviously not compatible. So should a slave obey his Mistress , it depends, definitely not if she wants absolute power over him. No one should have absolute authority over anyone else, male or female.

LadyEllen -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/2/2006 3:09:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shamedmale yes thats true but as in everything in life there must be a limit to this obedience. Yes - as discussed and agreed beforehand, according to mutual personal taste i mean to me Mistresses who demand that a slave works twelve hours a day 12 hours a day? Thats a normal working day in the UK - dont see the problem? or who drag their men out on leashes or lock them up in a jail cell are not worthy of obedience. What if the guy wants this? The following are other practices which i feel degrade both slave and mistress and no one should have any respect for torturing a slave - ? cock and ball torture - ? (again); not my thing, but some guys like it beating a slave - double ? slapping a male - ? spanking a male - ? starvation of slaves ( yes ive even seen mistresses on this site who say that they get off by starving male slaves) - sounds it could be dangerous, but no one is going to die from missing a meal or two, unless theyre diabetic, which would have to be discussed beforehand anyway any cruel degrading punishment which strips a man of his dignity - ? Isnt this something of the essence of the whole thing? In short I dont think Mistresses who demand absolute obedience should be obeyed. - or can be obeyed, usually, or will ever retain a slave, often After all this is just replacing one form of tyranny , that of male dominance with another absolute female dominance and is manifestly wrong. At the end of the day we are all equal and the idea that man is inferior to woman- an idea propagated by certain women on this site is equally spurious. Absolutely Then this is where you start making more sense Having said that if a man wishes to have these things done to him, then its consensual and its ok. It s where a Mistress pushes or exceeds a person's limits without that person's consent, thats when I think there is a n abuse of power and is one of the reasons why I have not visited a dominatrix in the Uk or America , there are not too many in Ireland where I live and the ones I have contacted have not replied, I feel there is always a possibility that I could be violated and or hurt and I dont want to take that risk. If youre paying a pro-domme, then for the most part youre in control I'd say. Whats important is to state absolute limits from the outset. But there can be problems with some who call themselves pro-dommes, but are not, there I'd agree. It takes a lot more than thigh highs and a crop to be a pro-domme. The real problem is finding a good one who knows what she's doing. After all my idea of fun/punishment and certain females idea of fun/punishment would be completely different. To elaborate I would be more in favour of gentler play and am not a masochist. And to be honest if a slave is wilfully disobedient of a Mistress's reasonable requests, not including the practices I have just mentioned, then the best thing to do is for both to go their separate ways. They are obviously not compatible. So should a slave obey his Mistress , it depends, definitely not if she wants absolute power over him. No one should have absolute authority over anyone else, male or female. No one does. Its consensual power exchange Not to be the nasty bitch shamed, but your post came across to me so full of misunderstandings about all this stuff. I'll chalk it up to environment, but a lot of the stuff you rejected above comes across as misunderstanding. The old mantra is safe, sane and consensual. E

Morrigel -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/2/2006 4:26:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shamedmale The following are other practices which i feel degrade both slave and mistress and no one should have any respect for torturing a slave cock and ball torture beating a slave slapping a male spanking a male starvation of slaves ( yes ive even seen mistresses on this site who say that they get off by starving male slaves) any cruel degrading punishment which strips a man of his dignity What amuses me about this post is the assumption that all of these things are somehow inflicted by a domme on a man who does not WANT them to be inflicted. You don't seem to recognize that not only do some men crave this kind of treatment desperately, they are willing to pay hundreds of dollars an hour to a professional domme in order to receive it. How much more starkly do you need it proven that in 99 cases out of 100, this sort of treatment is the sub's idea--not just the domme's? Don't get me wrong, there are many experienced ladies out there who can run a man through an enormous number of training exercises. If he is new and doesn't yet know what he likes/wants in the way of submission, he can learn a lot. Many male doms can do the same, and the femme sub can go through a process this way, where she finds out that she loves X, Y and Z but she hates A.B and C and she can tolerate P,Q and R if it turns her master on, although she doesn't see the point. Any way, I have seen many abusive dommes in relationships with male subs, but the abuse was rarely in performing the dominants acts that he craved. It was usually in failing to set boundaries for when playtime was over, carrying games into public spheres where he needed to be respected by others, or isolating him from friends and family. Just because you don't like a lot of things you see on the BDSM checklist doesn't mean that there are not boys out there who not only like those things, but love them and need them. There are a lot of kinky people with a lot of kinky needs. I have had subs request things that were far beyond my limits far more often than vice versa. You would not BELIEVE the kind of things some men ask for, and genuinely want. -M

shamedmale -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/2/2006 9:19:45 AM)
And this is perhaps the saddest aspect of so called female domination, you merely live to fulfill the fantasies and desires of the male. Instead of being called female dominants a more accurate description would be female fantasy fulfillers. Certainly there is nothing empowering about doing to men what they want done to them. This is if anything disempowering to women. It merely takes male fantasies into account and plays them out albeit for money, accepted, which goes into the domme's pocket but nonetheless still gives the impression of women as mere objects or puppets on a string playing to the man's tune always and not the woman's desires or wants.

LadyEllen -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/2/2006 9:39:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shamedmale And this is perhaps the saddest aspect of so called female domination, you merely live to fulfill the fantasies and desires of the male. Instead of being called female dominants a more accurate description would be female fantasy fulfillers. Certainly there is nothing empowering about doing to men what they want done to them. This is if anything disempowering to women. It merely takes male fantasies into account and plays them out albeit for money, accepted, which goes into the domme's pocket but nonetheless still gives the impression of women as mere objects or puppets on a string playing to the man's tune always and not the woman's desires or wants. Pro-dommes = professional fantasy fulfillers for men, true. Also counsellors and a few other things too. But, do you honestly think that a woman could be a successful pro-domme, if she didnt enjoy the things she's doing to fulfil a male fantasy, in exchange for payment? This is not a job like we might understand, shamed, its more a vocation - one has to be that way inclined/interested in the first place, in order to do it well. Sure, you can slip some woman 50 quid and get her to thrash you, but that is not what a pro-domme does. And just as you, as a potential client, have limits you want respected, so does the pro-domme have limits as to things she wont do, regardless of payment. The contractual arrangements make the pro-domme a supplier to the male as the customer, but this is a seller's market, shamed. There is so much demand, I would bet pro-dommes could charge double and do half what they do now, and still be in high demand. Being in control of who gets to buy, kind of empowers one, dont you think? And therein lies a truth too - pro-dommes can be and are, very selective over whom they dominate, even for payment. There's no open door, walk in and take a seat and Ms X will see you in ten minutes, as far as I ever heard. And lastly, it might surprise you to learn, there are ladies out there who actually are naturally dominant and actually enjoy exercising dominance, without being paid for it either. We've had about ten pro-domme threads on here in 4-5 months, shamed. Suggest reading some of them through. E

shamedmale -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/2/2006 10:26:39 AM)
get the picture but still think its regrettable that so many dominant females , and i use that term very suspiciously, are dominant only because they do what men ask them to do, ie without men pro dommes would not exist , they would not be able to make money, so it is the pro domme that is dependent on the male not the other way round

Morrigel -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/2/2006 1:22:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shamedmale And this is perhaps the saddest aspect of so called female domination, you merely live to fulfill the fantasies and desires of the male. Lol...if fulfilling the fantasy of the submissive renders domination "so called", then there is no such thing as a male dominant either, unless he is a rapist or guilty of criminal assault. Consent is the difference between what we do and what criminals do. If we are not fulfilling a fantasy for both parties, then a crime is being committed and the person guilty of it needs to be in jail. I think your problem is that you can't distinguish between acts of BDSM sexuality and acts of real criminal violence. A rapist is not a "dominant". He or she is just a brutal sicko who should probably be exterminated for the good of humankind. --M

razzberries -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/3/2006 8:35:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shamedmale think its regrettable that so many dominant females , and i use that term very suspiciously, are dominant only because they do what men ask them to do, ie without men pro dommes would not exist You might as well say that without fans, pro football players would not exist. It takes skill and effort to play pro sports - its not something anyone can do on a whim. Do players enjoy their work? I would guess so, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/3/2006 8:55:17 PM)
I wont quote your list, since so many others have, but whats wrong with MUTUALLY enjoying some of those activities? My boy obeys me becasue he wants to make me happy. I humiliate him, when I choose. I dress him as I please, and I am physical with him as I see fit. He trusts me enough to allow me to control our relationship becasue he knows I will not harm him. What is your definition of torture? Physical pain? Some people get incredible rushes from phsyical pain. Thats hardly torture in their case. If they both enjoy the act, why should it not be respected? CBT? Same thing. What about chastity, is that bad too? Is there something inherintly wrong with my controlling every one of my boys orgasms? And not to be nitpicky.. but since you specified slapping or beating a male, can we asume you think it is OK for a Dominant to do these things to a female? Not all Dommes keep boys you know. DV

shamedmale -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 2:15:15 AM)
i dont think men or women should be beaten by other men or women and i certainly think there is a danger that a sub's limit could be exceeded by a dominant male or female, say i ask for a hard spanking, a hard spanking to me could be 10 slaps but what if a dominant male or female gives me 20 slaps and i or anyone else for that matter falls ill due to the fact that we are not able to take the extra slaps what then? when does a game become very serious? just a simple example but i think you can see the principle

MissyRane -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 2:29:26 AM)
yagity yagity yag, some people LIKE it and it's a dominants (well and the subs also) responsibility to be aware of health status, a dominant isn't just one that beats the shit outta someone and sends them to hospital for the fun of it alright shit happens maybe but I think most show great care and also that's what safewords are for and the green yellow red thing or whatever you use.

Morrigel -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 5:09:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shamedmale i dont think men or women should be beaten by other men or women And I think maybe you need to get out from behind your keyboard and acquire some real life experience of BDSM with real human beings. Increasingly, the things you say make me realize that you have no idea whatsoever how these games are supposed to be played in real life, how the dynamic works between real subs and real dominants in a scene. Your views are completely shaped by the behaviors and attitudes of common criminals who victimize non-consenting human beings. For example, you have a fundamental ignorance of how "limits" work, emotionally and physically, and what the consequences for breaching them are. Any dominant worth his or her salt has a strong empathic connection with the submissive they are working with. They know when they are dishing out the sensation and actions that are wanted, and when they are not. Your toe may go over the line here or there--you may even deliberately stretch the boundaries for mutual pleasure, since going to extremes is what a lot of these games are about for some players--but you very rarely have a dom of either sex that stomps straight over a limit, especially a hard limit, without thinking or caring. A person that tramples over limits without empathy or sympathy is not a dominant; that person is simply an abuser. Many submissives on this forum have been involved with such people in the past, and are now involved with real dominants; they could probably explain the difference to you much better than I can, but the upshot of any explanation is this: a real dominant makes them happy. An abuser makes them miserable. A real dominant is interested in their needs and fantasies: an abuser is interested only his/her own. A real dominant provides them with the stimulation, the direction, and the strength they need; an abuser only sucks them dry and leaves them feeling hollow, worthless, and barren. A real dominant is emotionally present and engaged with them in a way that abusers cannot be present or engaged with anyone. Getting hung up on individual physical acts or types of stimulation is meaningless. There are men and women in this world who can beat you with a cane or piss on your chest with more love and more empathy for you as a human being than many others would feel when they kissed you on the mouth or held your hand. It's not about the individual details of the game; it's about what BOTH players are getting out of it. --M

TexasMaam -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 8:29:29 AM)
Can't we let this insipid thread die? [:'(]

shamedmale -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 10:01:04 AM)
hmm easier said than done getting away from a keyboard and what not, experiencing BDSM, virtually impossible in Ireland , hardly any dominants, flights cost cash and domination costs cash, cash not abundant with me at the minute

TexasMaam -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 10:17:50 AM)
Hmmm. You're right in some ways. I do live to fulfill the fantasies and desires of My sub. I can absolutely live with the description of female fantasy fulfuller. That's Me! But you're wrong in that there's nothing empowering about it. It's very gratifying and empowering because he keeps coming back, when and where I want him, to do for Me what I want. I have a news flash for you: say you pick up a hot date, fuck her brains out and leave her with a smile. You leave her apartment feeling quite smug over the fact that you really got your rocks off and it only cost you dinner. Well guess what? She got her rocks off too, and didn't pay for the meal. Of course she lets him walk off into the city, never to be seen again. He feels like 'the man' and SHE doesn't have to wash his underwear tomorrow. Who fulfilled whose fantasy? ; ) Don't bother to respond with more of your ire, I've made My point and won't revisit anyway. TexasMaam quote: ORIGINAL: shamedmale And this is perhaps the saddest aspect of so called female domination, you merely live to fulfill the fantasies and desires of the male. Instead of being called female dominants a more accurate description would be female fantasy fulfillers. Certainly there is nothing empowering about doing to men what they want done to them. This is if anything disempowering to women. It merely takes male fantasies into account and plays them out albeit for money, accepted, which goes into the domme's pocket but nonetheless still gives the impression of women as mere objects or puppets on a string playing to the man's tune always and not the woman's desires or wants.

LadyEllen -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 10:42:46 AM)
I really dont think we're right to be so hard on shamedmale, people. I honestly dont think he's being deliberately obtuse or anything - I honestly think that all of what he's saying is coming out of a culture which we might know of, but most of us dont really understand. Its a unique culture in Ireland as I understand it - one which to the rest of most of us would be absurdly old fashioned. Put yourself in shamedmale's shoes for a moment, and imagine how you would communicate here, from such a cultural understanding of what makes a man a man, a woman a woman and what is right and wrong. I'm only going off my experience with my neighbour here, but honestly, from the way he is, this culture in which shamedmale finds himself is one in which misogyny, "real men", sexual repression and authoritarian morality is the order of the day. Shamedmale has feelings and aspirations which in his culture would be heavily frowned on, and/or met with confusion and a label as mentally ill, although for us his feelings and aspirations are not that unusual. For him, from the culture in which he has been born and raised, the idea of a lovingly dominant woman, who enjoys and willingly participates in sexual activity let alone domination, might simply be too much of a paradox for him to understand? I spoke to my neighbour about all this, and his experience is that Irish women are rarely quiet and submissive (in fact the reverse, so he said), but they "know their place" and are brought up to be "nice girls" for the "real men" who rule them. Shamed - I hope I'm not too far off in all that, and if I'm wrong then I apologise now OK? I just get the impression that youre fighting with one arm behind your back here, and I would love you to understand all of this better - but for that to happen, the ladies here need to understand you better too. E

shamedmale -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 10:54:26 AM)
Bang on the money Lady Ellen. Women in Ireland are becoming increasingly assertive its true. There is now in fact a lot of male bashing in Ireland. When men have trouble the culture is to shut up and suffer in silence. I did this bottled up my emotions and had a breakdown as a result. Men are still perceived in Ireland as invulnerable and unemotional and how could you possibly suffer as a man, you would be laughed at even still, although finally the press at least are looking at mental health issues of young men. Women are assertive its true but that the idea that a woman could dominate a man, it s not caught on in Ireland at all and the women who do practice it are few in number and are almost embarrassed by it to be honest.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/4/2006 4:30:43 PM)
My problem with shamed isnt his lack of knowledge. Its his judgements. The problems you have with bieng expected to be the "man" is not unique to ireland. Its quite widespread. However, pasing judgements about how sad a prodommes position is,or putting forth a list of things that should not be respected whe you dont realy know much about the lifestyle you are commenting on ruffles feathers. How can you have set in stone opinions when you dont really know anything on the subject? My advice would be to spend a bit of time getting to know people online, and learning more about how the lifestyle works realistically. Limits, service, and the interaction between a Domme and her boy/girl are all very personal matters. While I understand how difficult it can be to get out of the social quagmire you were brought into, since I deal with something similiar with my own boy, you need a better understanding of what goes on in the lifestyle before you can pass such judgement. Not everyone inflicts pain on their pets within a D/s relationship. Not all limits are pain related, and not all pain is physical. Sometiems, sex is a playing factor, sometimes it isnt. Before you decide what it is you can and cant respect, you need to learn about the dynamics in which these things are played out and what goes into them. DV

shamedmale -> RE: not obeying a mistress (11/5/2006 1:35:57 AM)
Thank you. You are right Diurnal Vampire, I do need to spend more time online to learn about the dyamics of domination and relationships and how people click in general. Distance relationships are difficult however I do know that. And I dont know about you but any domme who has face slapping , whipping or spanking in his or her repertoire is not particularly worthy of respect in my view. Certainly dommes who feel males are worms are not worthy of respect in my view. I mean would you like to be slapped around or referred to as a worm. In my view whether its male or female its quite offensive but thats just my view.

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