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too compliant? - 8/29/2006 3:05:41 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		i didn't want to steal the story of O thread so i'm making my own. It was suggested there that o was given away because she was too compliant. Now i know that O is just a story but the thought that it could happen in real life kinda scares me.

Do we as submissives and/or slaves strive to submit all only to find that if we achieve it The Dominant becomes bored or considers us doormats? Should we not strive to submit all?

lil_joy
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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 3:16:33 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy
Do we as submissives and/or slaves strive to submit all only to find that if we achieve it The Dominant becomes bored or considers us doormats? Should we not strive to submit all?

lil_joy

http://www.collarchat.com/m_102787/mpage_1/key_challenge/tm.htm#102787
What happens when you reach the destination?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281193/mpage_1/key_challenge/tm.htm#281193
Does total submission make a master lose interest?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 3:18:17 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		thanks LA i knew i could count on you
lil_joy

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 5:31:16 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

i didn't want to steal the story of O thread so i'm making my own. It was suggested there that o was given away because she was too compliant. Now i know that O is just a story but the thought that it could happen in real life kinda scares me.

Do we as submissives and/or slaves strive to submit all only to find that if we achieve it The Dominant becomes bored or considers us doormats? Should we not strive to submit all?

lil_joy


I've never reached that point but came close.  It wasn't boring.  Would it have been if she had gotten completely there?  I don't honestly know.  I'd like to think that I am the type of person who would be appreciative of that level of devotion and servitude and love but until faced with something, we can only make guesses as to what we would do.  The guess may be well-educated and thoughtful and brutally honest but it is still just that...a guess.

People are different.  I am sure you can find endless speculation as to the motivations for Stephen's actions in the Story of O.  My own is that he was an arrogant ass with the money and time to do what he wanted...Diligent and caring and even obsessive as long as something or someone interested him but...like many a child...ready to toss it away once he'd figured it all out (at least, in his mind he had).  I am sure that there are many like Stephen.  I am also sure that there are many out there who would find such hard-fought for submissive devotion wonderful. 

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 5:35:50 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		In 'O', there was never an implication that Rene tired of O and gave her to Sir Stephen.  O was 'recruited' by Rene for Sir Stephen.  Sir Stephen shared her with others, but at least through the end of the first book, she still belonged to Sir Stephen (as I understand it).

As far as your question, I don't really see it that way at all.  Assuming a Dom's experience (or expectation if you will) begins at 10, and your experience begins at 0, you will naturally during the course of your training move towards 10.  However at the same time, the Dom should also expand their horizons as well, although perhaps not as quickly.

Say, by the time you get to 5, he might be at 12 or 13.

There might never get to a point where his expectations for you and where you are are at the same point.

But so what if it does?

The answer really has nothing to do with your submission and his dominance, I do not believe.  I think it is something different entirely.

If he is the type of man that has to, at some point, 'move on', then it is going to happen to you anyway unless you are the type of woman he wishes to keep.

If he is the type of man that saw the potential for where he wanted you from the beginning and you succeeded, then he would be a fool NOT to keep you.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:08:28 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		thanks so much for Your answers. i can't tell Ya how much better it makes me feel
lil_joy

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:25:54 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

i didn't want to steal the story of O thread so i'm making my own. It was suggested there that o was given away because she was too compliant. Now i know that O is just a story but the thought that it could happen in real life kinda scares me.

Do we as submissives and/or slaves strive to submit all only to find that if we achieve it The Dominant becomes bored or considers us doormats? Should we not strive to submit all?

lil_joy



What a wonderful question. For some, the thrill is in the challenge. As one soul once wrote, "It is better to tame fire than ashes."

I have never bought into that philosophy, as it seems to me it smacks more of game playing than the serious pursuit of a Master and slave way of life. To each their own, I do say. Personally, and I know this will come as such a shock to many here, but I prefer doormats. Intelligence, imagination and dimension in a girl is nothing less than a boon, but when serving me she is expected to give all and everything. I will know if she is not.

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:32:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I was told to read The Story of O as one of my first "assignments" with my former dominant. I had an intense reaction to it because I took it a little in a literal way. I have a bit of O inside of me, the desire to be carried away with my "inner slave girl", so needless to say the book scared me half to death because I did not view it as art per se, I viewed it almost as if this was the level of submission that I would get to one day... and that thrilled me and at the same time terrified me. The ending of the book disturbed me also, to give so much just to be cast aside.

I talked to my former dom and he assured me that this fiction maybe lived by a few, but not most, and that was not what was expected of me...

I have since thought on this work, and I will say that I have wondered what dominants really feel about a "doormat" slave such as O, one who will just do as is asked without question or protest. I think this level of submission is for a few, but not for most... on either side of the D/s coin. I think that many dominants would take such a one as O forgranted not realizing there is depth in servitude. There are also dominants that would only want one such as O, and they would not settle for less submission than what she offered...



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:40:05 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I like "strict compliance!"
And I like and expect absolute Obedience from my sub.
I don't like any arguing at all.
I don't need a brat or brattiness.
She is a submissive, submissives submit and Obey.

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:40:18 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		ok i have to ask why You perfer a doormat? To me doormat implies someone that follows not out of strength but out of weakness and despiration. Does it mean something else to You?
lil_joy

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:41:29 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		it scared me too for the same reason

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:43:31 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Yes, that's a good question Amayos.
You prefer doormats? With no personality, no talking, no nothing?

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:47:28 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		 arguing and brattiness not fit with my idea of submission either

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 6:58:55 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have since thought on this work, and I will say that I have wondered what dominants really feel about a "doormat" slave such as O, one who will just do as is asked without question or protest. I think this level of submission is for a few, but not for most... on either side of the D/s coin. I think that many dominants would take such a one as O forgranted not realizing there is depth in servitude. There are also dominants that would only want one such as O, and they would not settle for less submission than what she offered...



Julia, I don't want to have to think this hard!!!

I think there are two concepts here, and I directly disagree with you on that one, so I'm going to address that first.

I don't think my definition of a doormat jives with yours.  (There, I've said it.)  My idea of what a doormat submissive has always been a person who had nothing to offer to a dominant or anyone other than her submission.  Someone who came from a position of no strength whatsoever.  I'm afraid I have been involved with this type of person in the past.  More than once.  More times than I care to share.  I didn't recognize this when I first met them.  It must have been the idea of someone wanting to submit, attracted to my strength, blah, blah, blah.  Yes, the power is heady, but (and here's where I really wish to be ignored) when you finally determine that, without you the dominant, they have no other life, or ambitions, or place to live, or much desire to live, being with that person seems rather empty.  I walk away, slowly, kindly.  But I walk away.

The more desireable submissive is one that actually has something within themselves that they are giving up.  A position of strength.  Something worth having.  I've said this similarly in another thread but something along the lines of a submissive who 'has no need to submit to anyone other than the fact they find you so compelling'.  That's what I want for my future.  The timing has not been right for me to encounter that much.

Now, with that type of person, that complete 'depth of servitude' is really REALLY worth striving for, as a dominant.  I could froth on that in several different ways, but I'll just leave it at that.

So, the tougher question for me to fathom, is which type was O?  It seems to me that O had 'something' of a life.  She was a photographer.  But when Rene comes into her life and scoops her up and takes her to Roissy, we don't see any barriers from O, do we?  And of course from there it becomes a moot point, as O has been shown her nature, or at least her future.

In the other thread I mentioned how Sir Stephen had told O that she was 'easy', that any man who loved her could gain her submission.  Rather makes her seem like a slut.  But we don't really know much about her past, other than her dawdlings with her schoolgirl classmates (who she completely dominated), certainly not with other men prior to Rene.

And as someone pointed out in the other thread, it seems that somewhere in the second book that O does contemplate her 'end'.

So, perhaps O does fit the definition of a doormat.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 7:35:36 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

ok i have to ask why You perfer a doormat? To me doormat implies someone that follows not out of strength but out of weakness and despiration. Does it mean something else to You?
lil_joy



What is wrong with admitting weakness, or allowing yourself to be weak in covenant with one you would call Master?

When giving all of oneself, what usually stands in the way is simple pride...an emotion difficult to vanquish, though its burden will only be fully realized once you succeed in doing so. The popular admonition that we must be our own person is a difficult thing to depart from, especially with everyone screaming in your ear since childhood that you must never allow yourself to be lowered before another.

I do prefer the one who can abandon that societal admonition and exist to serve. I do certainly prefer a "doormat," or whatever equally colorful and derogatory phrase any would like to use to describe one who surrenders utterly and without condition—for she (or he) displays the penitence and humility required of slavery. A doormat is not prideful or egocentric; she places her Master above all things, even above herself. That is the apex of servitude, and the greatest thing any human can give another: all of his or her being. I do not understand questioning the worth of such a thing, outside of considering the pageantry many have made of the term "worth" in BDSM mostly for social and political reasons.


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Yes, that's a good question Amayos.
You prefer doormats? With no personality, no talking, no nothing?


Of course they can talk. They can be brilliant and quite learned, too. In fact, they will be what I want of them, or as much as their mortal flesh and mind will allow. There is no sin in such a quality, in my mind. It is ideal.

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 7:46:35 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		amayos, I respectfully suggest that your use of "doormat" does not fit the stereotypical use. It is a different thing to have one submit wholly and fully to you because her only desire and goal is to please you.....and one who submits because they are incapable of survival on their own accord.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 7:53:33 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I don't like doormats or completely compliant to the point where someone would perhaps walk out in front of a train if you told them too. To me something is wrong there as the person should have some self esteem and some instinct for self perservation. If he lost interest in everything except me and wanted nothing more then to sit at my feet all the time, I'd grow very bored oh yes.

I like subs with the spark of life in them who will stand up for themselves if they feel they need to. Someone who doesn't reminds me of a dog thats been beat too many times. I want someone with opinions with a healthy self esteem. Most Dom/me's who want a total doormat sub/slave are people who either have low self esteem themselves or they are sociopaths who feel they are superior to everyone on the face of the planet.

But to each her or his own.

~Lashra and bratty slutjack

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 7:57:03 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		General reply:

Sometimes a slave is just a wayward lost soul in need of an identity and a place to live. 

If I were a Master, Id prefer a slave who already has it all, but is willing  to give it all up in order to serve out of pure need to serve,  not out of neediness. 
 
Sure, you hear alot of slaves who have nothing to their name but a T shirt, say I give it all to my master even the dollar bill I have left in my pocket.  What Id really love to see is an established career woman, home owner, with a Mercedes in her driveway, turn it all over to a master,  in the name of pure slavery.  Now THAT would be a slave.  


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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 8:00:18 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		i think i'll have to agree to disagree here. i personally think it takes a lot of strength to submit ones will to another unless one is already weak and desperate. Those are two things i am not able to be.

When giving all of myself it's not pride that stands in my way it is at this point trust. trust that He puts us above Himself in the sense that He would not damage our relationship or me with His desires. i have in the past put a Master before myself up to the point that i was no longer able to believe that us was more important than Him.

i am not in anyway trying to question the worth of another. It is not my place to do so. i am simply trying to understand Your views

lil_joy

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RE: too compliant? - 8/29/2006 8:02:43 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Personally, I prefer my boy to keep his own personality, and his own opinions.  Though eventualy, his opinions will match mine for the most part, I like someone who doesnt automatically agree with everything I say just becasue I am his owner. He is never rude, and never out of line with his comments, and he knows very well when my word goes and notto argue.  However, it keeps things interesting when I know he may not agree and we might eba able to get into an interesting discussion.
Someone who is so compliant as to agree with everything all the time... gets boring REALLY fast.
In my opinion, anyway.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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