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RE: too compliant? - 8/30/2006 5:52:32 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Marie, any respectable Master or Mistress, while taking everything from their slave, also makes sure than in the event tey part ways, there will be support for the slave until they get on their feet. When my boy comes to me full time, everything will be mine. He will have nothing of his own anymore, willingly. And he isnt worried about what might happen if things dont work.  I remember another thread mentioning how disheartening it is when people plan for the failure of a relationship from its get go.
I have no intention on breaking my boys self esteem. Actually, I plan on increasing it. Should there be a reason we have to part ways, he will be prefectly capable of making it on his own. However, if slavery is the show of unmitigated love, as you put it, then thats what will kep someone there.  Not the need and not the economic dependance... but the love of the relationship. My boy isnt afraid I wil leave him stranded if things change.  He trusts that I am keeping his well being and interests in mind when I make the plans we make. He knows he will be taken care of in any eventuality, and becaue he can put that sort of trust in me is why we work so well together. That is why it doesnt get muddied up. Trust.

My 2 cents

DV


I hear ya.  I guess "respectable" is the key word.  I dont plan for the failure of any relationship I embark on, but as a mother, I plan for the possibility that if I give all I have to another person (financially).  I may someday find myself on the street with my child.  Some think this precludes me from being able to serve in a "real" way.   Im not talking about earning your keep, Im talking about turning over everything you ever had and saying goodbye to it forever.  To me, its ludicrous.  But then Ive lived through a 22 year relationship and know that no matter how commited you think you are, a couple decades later, something could change.  Its the same thing in vanilla marriages.  You have women who give up careers to raise their kids and keep a house, then hubby comes home and says guess what bitch?  Im outta here.  People....all people...need to make provisions for any possibility.  Its simply the reality of the world we live in. 

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: too compliant? - 8/30/2006 6:31:20 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I agree with you 100% Marie, I was married for 30 yrs and here I am today divorced. 

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: too compliant? - 8/30/2006 7:37:04 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~ Fast Reply ~

I see a theme in this thread which suggests that submitting completely requires a slave to lose her personality, intelligence, sense of humor, and ability to interact with others.  It is my experience that that is not the case at all.  What if her submission requires her to engage in intellectual discourse with her Master, or to stroll galleries alongside him, with the ability to interpret art and have meaningful dialogue about it?  What if she is to learn a new culture and must adapt her life to it?  Does this describe a “doormat” in the sense most of us know it to be?

I believe a slave can become an extension of her Master, by which she channels his energy and becomes that “doormat” which was previously described.  She releases all barriers to herself to fully allow him in.  It is then that he can fully utilize her for whatever he wishes, without the need for regard to her feelings, response, well being, and consequence.  Why?  Because he already knows what it will be.  Call her a doormat, call her a pool of water – all absorbing, call her what you will.  She will not “react” to him other than to welcome all he does with gratitude.

Do not confuse this, however, with an inability to think.  What the Master I speak of does not want is for her to over-think, creating barriers which prevent his direct access into her heart, mind, and body.

I asked my Master about boredom in a slave such as this.  He could not fathom not finding satisfaction in the pure submission and obedience of a well trained slave.

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: too compliant? - 8/30/2006 7:48:45 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		ownedgirlie, well said.
And subs/slaves also hold fulltime jobs as Teachers, Doctors,Nurses, Businesspeople and every other job too.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 5:36:16 AM   
llkkto


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		Has any dominant reading this thread ever had any actual, first-person, in-a-live-in-relationship experience with a submissive who was "too compliant," in your  view?   If so, could you please describe what too much compliance looks like? What did they do, how did they think, what is an example from your life that illustrates this quality, and why did you think their obedience was too much of a good thing? How did it make you feel?

I'm asking because I've never run into that sort of submissive before, just see hearsay that they exist, or, as in this thread, theorizing about them. So I'm wondering what the real (vs. the mythical) beast looks like.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 5:38:45 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: llkkto

Has any dominant reading this thread ever had any actual, first-person, in-a-live-in-relationship experience with a submissive who was "too compliant," in your  view?   If so, could you please describe what too much compliance looks like? What did they do, how did they think, what is an example from your life that illustrates this quality, and why did you think their obedience was too much of a good thing? How did it make you feel?

I'm asking because I've never run into that sort of submissive before, just see hearsay that they exist, or, as in this thread, theorizing about them. So I'm wondering what the real (vs. the mythical) beast looks like.


I have. The sort who says "anything you like sir."

It's a wonderfully passive agressive way to avoid communication, and place all of the responsibility on the shoulders of the top.

Which again, is why many dislike "doormats."

(in reply to llkkto)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 5:45:50 AM   
llkkto


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		That's all?  In years or months in which you lived with them all they did was say, "Anything you like sir?" And nothing else happened?  Did they do anything else that underlined their compliance--or maybe contradicted it? Was it genuine, in your opinion, or an act, just a way they thought they had to behave with a dominant? What happened when you told them (I assume you did them them) that you wanted them to express their own likings/interests? Did you have any important discussions about it? What was the result of trying to get her to change to a slave who pleased you more? I'd like to hear about some of the details, how the relationship developed (or didn't) as again the "anything you like sir" slave is one of those myths that float around bdsm discussions but which I haven't ever seen up close and personal.

Details man, give us the details. :)

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 6:07:04 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: llkkto

That's all?  In years or months in which you lived with them all they did was say, "Anything you like sir?" And nothing else happened?  Did they do anything else that underlined their compliance--or maybe contradicted it? Was it genuine, in your opinion, or an act, just a way they thought they had to behave with a dominant? What happened when you told them (I assume you did them them) that you wanted them to express their own likings/interests? Did you have any important discussions about it? What was the result of trying to get her to change to a slave who pleased you more? I'd like to hear about some of the details, how the relationship developed (or didn't) as again the "anything you like sir" slave is one of those myths that float around bdsm discussions but which I haven't ever seen up close and personal.

Details man, give us the details. :)


That's how a few showed up. I broke them of it rather quickly.
Here's the deal. Thier past twitty doms had ego issues, and demanded total compliance.(one reason I so dislike puffed up chest beaters of this sort) So they had gotten into the habit in defense mode. It helped to avoid dramatics from Mr. gorilla..

However,I am not that insecure, I want to know what is going on inside. So obviously, if I am trying to get an answer to prefferences and I ask "Do you like french toast?" And all I get is "Whatever you want Sir!" I'm sort of left in the dark.....

After a while, they learned I was really not the gorilla sort, and we got along a bit better.

(in reply to llkkto)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 6:22:36 AM   
DanielsHeart


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		In reading this thread I find myself really needing to post, the problem with doing that is figuring out the way to do so within the rules I follow, but here goes.

I have been called a doormat, I have also been told I am too compliant.  There is one person I need to please with my every deed and that is my Master, he believes I am fine just the way I am.

I hold a Professional job, Host Business Events for his business, Debate with the best of them, and still I am considered a 'doormat' by many of my friends within the lifestyle.

Communication is mandatory in this house, I am not to hold back my feelings ever.  If something is bothering me I am to tell him, if something feels great I am to tell him.  The difference...After all the communication I trust him enough to comply immediately to the decision he makes.  I use my mind all the time, but accept that he is my Owner and in being my Owner, he makes the decision unless i am told it is my decision to make.

Finances are handled the way he states, all money in this house is his to decide.  We talk about purchases that are big, and I know the amount of money I am allowed to spend on personal items, when I became his, my assets all became his also.  I also know that if all of this fell apart down the road, I would have what I needed to start over, that is just the type of man he is.

My obedience to him did not happen the first day we were together, it did not even happen the first year we were together.  Trust takes time to build in a reality sense of the word.  I started out with hard limits, never did the 'yes Sir anything you say Sir' thing, but as we spent time together I knew there would never be anything he would do to hurt me, and the rest became easy. 

The day my last unshared hard limit was pushed successfully, I knew I was his and would be his for as long as he allowed me to be.  So yes, some may call me a doormat, but as my profile says...Master calls me HIS and that is all i really need to be. 

i hope this did not come off with the sense of anger.

Daniel's heart

< Message edited by DanielsHeart -- 8/31/2006 6:26:56 AM >

_____________________________

His heart for His pleasure always

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 6:25:13 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		Getting along and working together well doesn't mean doormat. I think of it more as "in tune."

(in reply to DanielsHeart)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 6:29:39 AM   
DanielsHeart


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Getting along and working together well doesn't mean doormat. I think of it more as "in tune."


I agree with you Sir.  Remaining "in tune" is the hard part, and only in communication can that occur.

Daniel's heart (and his doormat)

_____________________________

His heart for His pleasure always

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 6:34:13 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielsHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Getting along and working together well doesn't mean doormat. I think of it more as "in tune."


I agree with you Sir.  Remaining "in tune" is the hard part, and only in communication can that occur.

Daniel's heart (and his doormat)


What I consider to be the classic doormat is the woman who uses passive agressive behavior to avoid personal responsibility. It's a form of armour, for someone who wishes to be enabled in a rather childish way. She feels that so long as she complies, she will be desired.

It's also inherently unhealthy, since she allows herself no outlet for concerns or resentments that are bound to fester inside, at the lack of communication. It's an ultimate masochism, that I simply cannot adide in my realm.

< Message edited by Homestead -- 8/31/2006 6:37:33 AM >

(in reply to DanielsHeart)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 6:51:42 AM   
DanielsHeart


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielsHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Getting along and working together well doesn't mean doormat. I think of it more as "in tune."


I agree with you Sir.  Remaining "in tune" is the hard part, and only in communication can that occur.

Daniel's heart (and his doormat)


What I consider to be the classic doormat is the woman who uses passive agressive behavior to avoid personal responsibility. It's a form of armour, for someone who wishes to be enabled in a rather childish way. She feels that so long as she complies, she will be desired.

It's also inherently unhealthy, since she allows herself no outlet for concerns or resentments that are bound to fester inside, at the lack of communication. It's an ultimate masochism, that I simply cannot adide in my realm.


Yes, I understand your thoughts here and agree.  Many here though, at least by the posts I am reading, suggest that any woman/man who complies completely with their Owner is a doormat. 

Having been called a doormat by many, the subject is a sore one for me, I am just hoping my post did not reflect the anger the subject seems to bring me to.

Daniel's heart.

_____________________________

His heart for His pleasure always

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 6:55:52 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielsHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielsHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Getting along and working together well doesn't mean doormat. I think of it more as "in tune."


I agree with you Sir.  Remaining "in tune" is the hard part, and only in communication can that occur.

Daniel's heart (and his doormat)


What I consider to be the classic doormat is the woman who uses passive agressive behavior to avoid personal responsibility. It's a form of armour, for someone who wishes to be enabled in a rather childish way. She feels that so long as she complies, she will be desired.

It's also inherently unhealthy, since she allows herself no outlet for concerns or resentments that are bound to fester inside, at the lack of communication. It's an ultimate masochism, that I simply cannot adide in my realm.


Yes, I understand your thoughts here and agree.  Many here though, at least by the posts I am reading, suggest that any woman/man who complies completely with their Owner is a doormat. 

Having been called a doormat by many, the subject is a sore one for me, I am just hoping my post did not reflect the anger the subject seems to bring me to.

Daniel's heart.


I understand the melding process, and find it quite lovely and desireable. I also understand that many seek M/s for entirely the wrong reasons-to find an enabler.

I cannot speak for those I do not know. Only say that I have been involved in enough D/s relationships to know the difference between sick and healthy.

If all of my time and energy with a partner is spent propping up a fragile and insecure ego-it lessens me.

I want to be more, nothing less will do.

That is my yardstick.

(in reply to DanielsHeart)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 7:09:40 AM   
DanielsHeart


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		I am in agreeance.  If one person in a relationship is not emotionally healthy, the chances of that relationship working is a long shot at best. 

Daniel's heart



_____________________________

His heart for His pleasure always

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 7:35:12 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielsHeart

I am in agreeance.  If one person in a relationship is not emotionally healthy, the chances of that relationship working is a long shot at best. 

Daniel's heart




This is really the core issue. You want to blend your life with another's.

If they are sick, you will become sick as well. This is something to be avoided. Seeking on the basis of compliance alone can be a descent into hell.

(in reply to DanielsHeart)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 7:56:01 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		DanielsHeart,
thank you. i think you expressed  beautifully the complyancy that i was talking about in my first post that we strive for. What you describe doesn't say doormat to me.  I says to me that you've reached a place with Him that i can be totally compliant. It makes me very happy for both of you.
lil_joy

(in reply to DanielsHeart)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 8:11:18 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		Homestead,
i have in my past relationship responded with "whatever pleases Master" there were two ways in which i used it and i don't think either were passive agressive. If You do see either of them that way please let me know because i'd like input on it.
The first way would be if he asked if i'd rather go to one reseraunt vs. another and both sounded equally good to me;
The second way would be if He asked something of me that was something i might not love the idea of doing but was willing to do for his pleasure
lil_joy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

What I consider to be the classic doormat is the woman who uses passive agressive behavior to avoid personal responsibility. It's a form of armour, for someone who wishes to be enabled in a rather childish way. She feels that so long as she complies, she will be desired.

It's also inherently unhealthy, since she allows herself no outlet for concerns or resentments that are bound to fester inside, at the lack of communication. It's an ultimate masochism, that I simply cannot adide in my realm.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 8:28:51 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

Homestead,
i have in my past relationship responded with "whatever pleases Master" there were two ways in which i used it and i don't think either were passive agressive. If You do see either of them that way please let me know because i'd like input on it.
The first way would be if he asked if i'd rather go to one reseraunt vs. another and both sounded equally good to me;
The second way would be if He asked something of me that was something i might not love the idea of doing but was willing to do for his pleasure
lil_joy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

What I consider to be the classic doormat is the woman who uses passive agressive behavior to avoid personal responsibility. It's a form of armour, for someone who wishes to be enabled in a rather childish way. She feels that so long as she complies, she will be desired.

It's also inherently unhealthy, since she allows herself no outlet for concerns or resentments that are bound to fester inside, at the lack of communication. It's an ultimate masochism, that I simply cannot adide in my realm.



That's not what I meant. It was a chickenshit way of avoiding risk taking, by stating any independent thought.

(in reply to liljoy)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: too compliant? - 8/31/2006 8:42:31 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

That's not what I meant. It was a chickenshit way of avoiding risk taking, by stating any independent thought.

In many situations (such as my own), the expression of thoughts and feelings is an absolute requirement, and therefore incorporated into full compliancy.  To not express oneself would be the result of blatant disobedience or poor training, in many of those cases.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 100
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