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RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:05:40 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

All we can do is express individual prefferences. I'm pretty pedantic and will look askance at someone who seems flakey and inconsistent. It's not up to me to decide who someone is-they have to do that for themselves. So my doubts have to do with wondering if they have enough self realization to make an informed decision about thier needs.

While they may not be lying overtly, lying to yourself is usually the root of many other lies.

Most people lie - even if it is to themselves.  Few can be 100% honest... but I think if people show they can evolve, that beats the whole 'honesty' thing handsdown.  Honesty is hugely over rated and an impossible concept for most people to grasp.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:06:42 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
Not really wanting to get into this particular argument, however your last word made me wonder something Homestead, and that is this. Is there ever an end of the other person having to prove him or herself or does that distrust and cynicism come back again even after they have consistently kept their word for a period of time (6 months, a year, 2 years, etc.)?


I will answer your question.  The truth is few people are perfect,
and the cynical person focuses on the little inaccuracies, and
is seldom able to trust any human.   There is a cynical female
I know that I have come through for again and again, but all she
can do is focus on a few minor occassions, where I missed
despite trying very hard.   Cynical people focus on the negative,
magnify the negative, and minimize the positive.  They have
little tolerance for mistakes.   They remember mistakes for
a long time, and quickly forget all the times you succeed. 
Cynical people are negative people.  They tend to be a
little paranoid.  They get angry often.  They see every pimple. 
They tend to be hypocrites, having one standard for themselves
and another for others.  They tend to be oblivious to their
own failings, their own failures, their own misjudgments,
and their own duplicity.  

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/1/2006 8:08:48 AM >

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:12:53 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		> Honesty would be mentioning thier OTHER profiles in each one, no?
 
No!  You are confusing honesty with stupidity.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:14:28 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		WhiptheHip: I think cynics are a lot of work. I have learned this through experience. I don't want to have to pretend to be "Dommed" by someone who can't get over their own "issues" with not trusting much of the rest of the human race on any level - that much pretending they are right, when it's not a position I truly respect, required on my part, while in actuality I'm really being an emotional babysitter for them - and at the same time letting them drag me into believing, along with themself, that the world is always a big, rotten, sewer with no hope of recovery - is just too much for me to volunteer to bear. No offense to any hard-core cynics who may read this. They just wear me out.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/1/2006 8:19:32 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:20:10 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		The world isn't all bad. There's a difference between realizing that there is evil that needs to be dealt with and avoided-and seeing it everywhere you look. I don't do that.

What has always worn me down the most in the past, was subs with nuerotic abandonment issues. They are so insecure that they try to cling like a barnacle,and when you need personal space-it means they are on the way out.

It becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. Intimacy comes from desire, not demands for it.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:24:45 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I never said I thought you were a cynic.
I understand what you say you want in a submissive. I think anyone has a right to seek what they think fits their needs. You need peace and space, there is nothing wrong with that.

I have never understood why people debate what other people say they need - it's ludicrous to me. So are debates about what constitutes the "correct" way to do just about anything. What people are really saying when they do this (I think) is that someone else's way wouldn't work for them - but some for some reason cannot admit this. I actually think it's kind of funny, sometimes.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/1/2006 8:44:46 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:32:21 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I never said I thought you were a cynic.
I understand what you say you want in a submissive. I think anyone has a right to seek wat they think fits their needs. You need peace and space, there is nothing wrong with that.

I have never understood why people debate what other people say they need - it's ludicrous to me. So are debates about what constitutes the "correct" way to do just about anything. What people are really saying when they do this (I think) is that someone else's way wouldn't work for them - but some for some reason cannot admit this. I actually think it's kind of funny, sometimes.

- Susan


I readily amit that the vast majority won't work for me. No question there. But I do like to make observations about WHY that is.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:35:17 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
mnottertail: You are not a cynic, you are a realist. Cynics don't have your light-hearted, yet biting, sense of humor. At least I don't think so - I see them as much more depressing to be around (and you are definitely not that).
-- Susan


Not true, Susan.  Cynics are often very witty and amusing.   They
see irony everwhere.  Have you ever heard of HL Mencken? I know
many male and female cynics and every single line that comes from
each of their mouths is humorous.  They hardly ever say anything
that is not funny.  Each of them could be stand-up comedians.  They
see everyone's shortcomings.  And everyone's shortcomings are fair
game and fotter for their humor.  Irony is their Fleur-de-lis.  
 
They are really miserable people, who have little good to say about
anyone.  Inwardly, they feel very weak, insecure and unloved.  They
raise their self-esteem by putting others down.  They are very
negative, pessimistic people..
 

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:37:22 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
mnottertail: You are not a cynic, you are a realist. Cynics don't have your light-hearted, yet biting, sense of humor. At least I don't think so - I see them as much more depressing to be around (and you are definitely not that).
-- Susan


Not true, Susan.  Cynics are often very witty and amusing.   They
see irony everwhere.  Have you ever heard of HL Mencken? I know
many male and female cynics and every single line that comes from
each of their mouths is humorous.  They hardly ever say anything
that is not funny.  Each of them could be stand-up comedians.  They
see everyone's shortcomings.  And everyone's shortcomings are fair
game and fotter for their humor.  Irony is their Fleur-de-lis.  
 
They are really miserable people, who have little good to say about
anyone.  Inwardly, they feel very weak, insecure and unloved.  They
raise their self-esteem by putting others down.  They are very
negative, pessimistic people..
 


You just described about 85% of comics out there,What does that say about our society?

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:43:20 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Homestead: I think that's fine.

WhiptheHip: Yes, they can sometimes be amusing, although maybe because I see through a lot more than I sometimes let on, a lot of the time, I see that wittiness as a sheer cover for an under-current of depressive lack of hope and disappointment they've not been able to deal with. It usually makes me want to run, unless they've got a "handle on it" and don't try to drag me into what I see as their cock-eyed worldview as well.

I think life should be fun. I've got working brain cells, and can find reasons to not trust the world. I don't see being with someone who thinks it's not, or can't be, fun anyway - and who can't ever let their guard down. I don't care what their reasons are. I spent 15 years with someone who wouldn't let the rest of the world in. That was enough for my lifetime. I've had some truly gut-wrenching life experiences - as has almost everyone. I've had a lot of support to deal with some of them (not all) and I still think life is something that can be enjoyed without suspecting everyone is untrustworthy. This does not, in my estimation, make me an idiot. I am relatively happy - and being happy is one of my goals in life.  

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/1/2006 9:15:25 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:47:26 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
My general attitude is that many people are flakey, inconsistent and selfish. It's the nature of the beast, and I am proven correct time after time in this. My cynicism is reserved for people at large, not my proven intimates.


"Their general attitude is many people are flakey, inconsistent and selfish. It's
the nature of the beast, and I am proven correct time after time in this. My
cynicism is reserved for people at large, not my proven intimates."

Nearly word-for-word, this comes straight from a textbook description of
someone with paranoid personality disorder.  I can't say anything about
Homestead since I have never met the man.  . 
 

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 8:52:29 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
My general attitude is that many people are flakey, inconsistent and selfish. It's the nature of the beast, and I am proven correct time after time in this. My cynicism is reserved for people at large, not my proven intimates.


"Their general attitude is many people are flakey, inconsistent and selfish. It's
the nature of the beast, and I am proven correct time after time in this. My
cynicism is reserved for people at large, not my proven intimates."

Nearly word-for-word, this comes straight from a textbook description of
someone with paranoid personality disorder.  I can't say anything about
Homestead since I have never met the man.  . 
 


You like to wear rose colored glasses. I like to look at reality-the way it exists. I accept it, and try to also find the good. If there was no joy, there would be no reason to live.

Why are you so concerned about the views of others that you feel it needful to gaslight and browbeat them?

Is that not more than a little cynical in itself? And how do you reconcile such hypocrasy?

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:02:22 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
WhiptheHip: I think cynics are a lot of work. I have learned this through experience. I don't want to have to pretend to be "Dommed" by someone who can't get over their own "issues" with not trusting much of the rest of the human race on any level - that much pretending they are right, when it's not a position I truly respect, required on my part, while in actuality I'm really being an emotional babysitter for them - and at the same time letting them drag me into believing, along with themself, that the world is always a big, rotten, sewer with no hope of recovery - is just too much for me to volunteer to bear. No offense to any hard-core cynics who may read this. They just wear me out.
- Susan


It is really a psychological disorder or an extreme adaptation depending on 
how you look at it. Some cats are less trusting some cats are more trusting. 
The same is true for human beings,  The less trusting cats are better at
survival in harsh environments.  Less trusting, slightly paranoid human 
survive in totalitarian regimes Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Nicolae
Ceausescu, Mao, Kim Jong Il, and Pol Pot, where more trusting people
do not.
 
Warm regards,
Michael
 

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:04:55 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Just like a lot of bottoms think they can take a lot more
pain than they really can.

/raises an eyebrow in question
I would be curious as to how many bottoms you have known who have shown a tendency.
quote:

  Cynics: They seem devoid of hope, but some seem to be hoping some will see them as witty instead. This strikes me not only as dishonest, but it's also transparent (to me). Also - something about cynicism seems to expect other people to fix the 'problem' (whatever they think it is), instead of the cynical person realizing their attitude is within their own control. Cynics seem to expect the worst, and then seem surprised if they don't get it. They are usually mentally 'prepared' in the extreme, for things to go awry.


Some of this Susan, I will agree with. However, I would tend to say that I, myself, am a very cynical person. Yet, I do not expect someone else to fix the problems that I have. Only I can do that. Yet, I maintain that a certain amount of cyncism can be healthy.
I always go by the stand-by of  "expect the worse and hope for the best". It has saved me alot of heartache over the years, and continues to do so. I see it as being realistic in what I can expect, and hope for in  life.
 
RavenMuse: I loved your post, it was absolutly perfect
 

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:08:58 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Tikkiee: Then personally, I'd classify you as part-cynic, but mostly a realist. Because you are hoping for the best. A real cynic, in my view, would always be expecting the worst, even if they did not admit this. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/1/2006 9:09:42 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:10:13 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		> I would not want a dominant that switches.  I would be pissed if
> someone lied to me about this. I do consider it a lie
 
Not all switches have to switch.  You may meet a dom
who was a bottom few times in their life or a sub
a few times in their life, and you would never know it.
Then after 50 years of a wonderful marriage, you would
discover the truth from some old letter you found in his
possession and realize your whole marriage was a lie. 
Oh, the horror of it!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:11:40 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I go through life with the attitude that it's fun and pleasurable.
The only thing that I'm cynical about is politics and in that area I am NEVER dissapointed. lol
Who has time to be cynical all the time anyway? That must be a lot of work!
I try to be around positive people who see the joy in life and like music and art and humor.
A good sense of humor is an important thing to have.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:18:21 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		HI Suaan,
 
> A real cynic, in my view, would always be expecting the worst
 
I always hope for the best, but try to prepare myself for
the worst.  I always give people the benefit of the doubt. 
I try to have low expectations.  I'd rather be pleasantly
surprised, than sadly mistaken.  I don't count my eggs
or my losses before they hatch.   I withhold judgment
as long as I can.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:20:03 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I go through life with the attitude that it's fun and pleasurable.
The only thing that I'm cynical about is politics and in that area I am NEVER dissapointed. lol
Who has time to be cynical all the time anyway? That must be a lot of work!
I try to be around positive people who see the joy in life and like music and art and humor.
A good sense of humor is an important thing to have.



Life IS as good as you make it popeye. And a lot of that simply involves making good choices. There is so much out there that lights my fire-why be around a wet blanket?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Cynical assumptions. - 9/1/2006 9:24:34 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		> Yet, I do not expect someone else to fix the
> problems that I have. Only I can do that.
 

Not everyone can pick themselves up by their
bootstraps.  There is nothing wrong with
needing people.   It is overly negative to
believe only you can fix your problems. 
Most people need help from others.  Do
you really fix your own car?  Most people
need love.  People who are satisfied
with their own love are narcissists.  It is
quite normal for people to need others.

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 160
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