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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:10:23 PM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Perhaps they don't want to be maleable pussy licker and want to be Queened and have their balls beaten with a crop or cane.

There are lots of ways to 'force' something to do many things.

I contend that the fact that they WANT it.. .. makes it impossible to FORCE it.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:17:45 PM

Homestead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Perhaps they don't want to be maleable pussy licker and want to be Queened and have their balls beaten with a crop or cane.

There are lots of ways to 'force' something to do many things.

I contend that the fact that they WANT it.. .. makes it impossible to FORCE it.

You can't rape the willing. Try forcing one of these fantasy bound twits out of it-see how far you get with it.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:29:45 PM

SusanofO

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Well, if one has a prettry good imagination, and also a deep desire to have something that's in fact been desired seem to be forced, that can work sometimes, to make the situation run a close second to "reality", can't it?

What other choice is there, here, except for the general consensual agreement to agree to whatever (anything), and then maybe have some particular desired scenario be a "surprise"?

I suppose I am asking -

What would the alternative be, for someone who likes "forced" scenarios? I don't really see that many. In fact, I don't see any.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/31/2006 8:33:36 PM >

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:32:42 PM

Homestead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well, if one has a prettry good imagination, and also a deep desire to have something that's in fact been desired seem to be forced, that can work sometimes, to make the istuation run a close second to "reality", can't it? I mena, what other choice is there, here excpet for the general consensual agreement to agree to whatever (anything), and then maybe have something be a "surprise"?

I suppose I am asking -

What would the alternative be, for someone who likes "forced" scenarios? I don't really see that many. In fact, I don't see any.

- Susan

I could only do something like this with one I have an ultimate amount of trust in. Extremely mentally stable would be the key. Not many measure up to the criteria needed for me to REALLY treat them like a traditional slave-rather than a "faux slave."

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:37:14 PM

SusanofO

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I am speaking of particular (and occasional) scenarios, like forced rape, for example - not every single bdsm actvity, all the time, every single day, being sprung up and forced upon someone (although I can see the appeal of that, too - it might be risky for the reasons you state, Homestead). But - I do think it completely depends on the people involved.

- Susan

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:38:26 PM

Homestead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I am speaking of particular (and occasional) scenarios, like forced rape, for example - not every single bdsm actvity, all the time, every single day, being sprung up and forced upon someone (although I can see the appeal of that, too - it might be risky for the reasons you state, Homestead). But - I do think it completely depends on the people involved.

- Susan

A top isn't going to risk his hide with a nutcase susan.

Unless he is really, really, stupid.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:40:50 PM

SusanofO

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Well, I agree that it would be wiser of him to not risk his hide with a nut-case. But - there is probably somebody out there who is actually doing just that, even as we speak - never say never.

Btw, what is your definition of a "nut-case"?

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/31/2006 8:52:00 PM >

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:51:01 PM

Homestead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well, I agree that it would be wiser of him to not risk his hide with a nut-case. But - there is probably somebody out there who is actualy doing just that, even as we speak - never say never.

Btw - What is your definition of a "nut-case"?

- Susan

Mentally unsound. Not in full possession of rational cognitive processes, therefore unable to give informed consent. Another defintion I have for this type of scene is one not stable enough to make it through such a scene, without coming apart at the seams emotionally.

And there have been more than one who THOUGHT she could handle something we had both negotiated-and had to call it off. They have to ask THREE times. And that is for MY safety-not thiers.

And why I have not gotten in trouble with the law. This is going to sound a bit selfish to say-but I put a lot of work into setting up those scenes. And it was very disturbing and dissapointing to have the prime player fold up in the middle, and spoil them. I did care about these women-but they had more bluff than backbone.

Be careful what you ask for.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:53:07 PM

SusanofO

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Thanks for the reply.

- Susan

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 8:54:32 PM

Caitriona

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
I just get this vivid picture in my mind of holding his nose and yelling.. (ala Margaret Cho)
"Now eat your Pooosy!.. There are people that have nooooo Poooosy to eat!!!"

I am so glad I'm not the only one who remembers that skit when I see things like that on profiles around here.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 9:53:13 PM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

It's still dependent entirely on the will of the slave to comply before and after. Or one can find onself having a nice little nonconsensual 'scene' in prison.

Quite true, Homestead, if one takes into account the motive and part of both sides and includes the assumed social surroundings, which are usually under the influence of Western law and culture. But the question posed from Lotus was something I took as purposefully philosophical and more from the submissive's perspective, in relation to choice and desire and force contrasted against each other.

So with this in mind, and for the sake of a *philisophical* discussion, my outline further extends into suspending all the easy smack-downs that silence getting to the heart of this human question: constitutions of nearby law, safety words, usefulness of screaming out or otherwise big red panic buttons. What if all the usual trappings and familiar locations are taken away, and there is no safety net, whatsoever? How many would enter into such an arrangement, then, out of love or devotion? Certainly not many, indeed, even after "trust" was established under the ideal tenets of a trademark BDSM relationship®.

I'm aware readers may scoff at the lack of plausibility in the above motif, or may even be alarmed by its use, yet some who are already upon their knees in worship and servitude to another, would, by virtue of their loyalty and the commitment they've undertaken, go naked into that unknown, where they will be helpless and unheard until their captors free them.

But even after this, I personally come around to the same conclusion as before: there are two possible and equally valid answers to the question, depending upon how you tilt the diamond.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 10:00:51 PM

Homestead

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There are two ruling factors.

Trust and desire. Just how REAL the bottom desires to make it, has a lot to do with how far it can be taken. I am very reality based-it makes me less than popular with many here. I gleefully shoot holes in things people have not bothered to think through, and test. My experiences are subjective-not objective. I HAVE done these sorts of things.

And an artist always apraises his materials carefully before taking up his tools-the outcome depends on it.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 10:31:06 PM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Just how REAL the bottom desires to make it, has a lot to do with how far it can be taken.

Indeed. That's the exploration requested of us in this thread. Can the desire for force be taken all the way? Is the question of asking to be forced completely and truly on the level (at least in some)? My answer is yes. But the no camp has a good argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

An artist always apraises his materials carefully before taking up his tools-the outcome depends on it.

As a rough approximation of an artist myself—though of different mediums—I agree. When speaking from the dominant perspective, attention to detail and reality is quite critical.

< Message edited by amayos -- 8/31/2006 10:32:51 PM >

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 11:24:43 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It's not that hard really.

You ask someone to force you into it. They either are able to force you into it or not.

When I get into a force play scene, you better believe I don't give an inch willingly.

But it's still what YOU want to have happen. It's a case of good acting.

This reminds me of the whole rape scene question. Both parties have to go into a headspace of playing the role of force, I think. Ive never done it, but I would imagine one has to get lost in the forcing of it, and the other has to get to the headspace of fighting against it. All while knowing that its not an authentic force, but rather a planned out scene of one. I would imagine, much like an actor, you would have to almost train your mind to get to that place and stay in it throughout the scene. That would be my guess anyway.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 11:39:39 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Perhaps they don't want to be maleable pussy licker and want to be Queened and have their balls beaten with a crop or cane.

There are lots of ways to 'force' something to do many things.

Good God Woman! I dont even have balls and this just scared the piss out of me.

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RE: Forced! - 8/31/2006 11:53:48 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well, I agree that it would be wiser of him to not risk his hide with a nut-case. But - there is probably somebody out there who is actualy doing just that, even as we speak - never say never.

Btw - What is your definition of a "nut-case"?

- Susan

Mentally unsound. Not in full possession of rational cognitive processes, therefore unable to give informed consent. Another defintion I have for this type of scene is one not stable enough to make it through such a scene, without coming apart at the seams emotionally.

And there have been more than one who THOUGHT she could handle something we had both negotiated-and had to call it off. They have to ask THREE times. And that is for MY safety-not thiers.

And why I have not gotten in trouble with the law. This is going to sound a bit selfish to say-but I put a lot of work into setting up those scenes. And it was very disturbing and dissapointing to have the prime player fold up in the middle, and spoil them. I did care about these women-but they had more bluff than backbone.

Be careful what you ask for.

I'll tell you right now, If I were a dominant, I dont think Id ever stop worrying about some whacked out chick screaming abuse and running to the cops. Id make damn sure well I trusted her before so much as blowing in her ear, nevermind a rape scene.

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RE: Forced! - 9/1/2006 5:37:17 AM

SusanofO

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marie: Or - maybe it would have to be a big surprise one had agreed to earlier, not knowing when or where it might happen.
Of course, a submissive would have to agree to this "surprise" and not knowing when or maybe even how, it would take place. Some people, I imagine don't want to do that.

Re: A forced rape scene. There ways (I think) to make this workable - I've read about them, and read about people who have made this work and seem very real.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/1/2006 5:56:56 AM >

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RE: Forced! - 9/1/2006 5:53:48 AM

TNstepsout

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The difference is that it's the feeling of having someone else enjoy "forcing" the behavior that is exciting, rather than the activity on it's own. While there are a lot of men who enjoy cross-dressing on their own and who might dress up, take pics and look at themselves in lingerie and get excited, there are a lot of men for whom the activity of cross-dressing does nothing. But they might have an interest is pleasing a woman by being "forced" into cross-dressing. It's a different dynamic.

Forced bi is the same way. In real bisexual sex, the pleasure is derived from the sexual contact with someone of the same sex. In forced Bi, the pleasure is derived from knowing a third party Dom/me is aroused by watching and directing the sexual activity.

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RE: Forced! - 9/1/2006 6:03:33 AM

SusanofO

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TNstepsout: I think that's a really good point you've just made. Force is part of the attraction of it all.

It's an interesting topic, and I mean no disrespect at all to the OP, But - part of me is inclined to say - if two people enjoy what they are doing as far as bdsm activity, does it really matter why? Call me superficial or non-intellectual, or whatever - sometimes, these issues just seem to become too complicated for me to dissect, so I dodge them completely, hehe.

amayos: This is off-topic, but - I like your new pictures, the one with you in the uniform and the leather gloves, against the background wall of leaves, especially (but I think all of them are really good).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/1/2006 6:08:25 AM >

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And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Forced! - 9/1/2006 6:13:22 AM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

amayos: This is off-topic, but - I like your new pictures, the one with you in the uniform and the leather gloves, against the background wall of leaves, especially (but I think all of them are really good).

Thank you, Susan.

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