RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 6:34:54 PM)

Welcome to my little corner of the world, M2........


XO,

Garlic to the email addies out here,

Ron



SusanofO -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 6:41:49 PM)

velvettears: Okay. Good. HUGs.[:)]

- Susan



velvetears -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 6:45:54 PM)

*hugs to susan and ownedgirlie*  [:)] 



Kaledorus -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 6:47:12 PM)

A slave has no rights. This is why it is imperative that the prospective slave give much thought to whether or not she is really able to live the lifestyle. A submissive who seeks to be enslaved cannot and must not project her feelings onto her prospective Master. i.e. attributing one's own likes/dislikes to the Owner. Sadly too often this is what happens and while the person may have thought that "he would never do THIS to me" or "he would never make me do THAT" there is no guarantee that the Owner won't someday do just that, then again he may never do so but you never know.
In case there are things you would never, ever wish to do or have done to you then it makes far more sense to be a subbie and thus retain control to some degree over the situation. Slaves have no such choices.



cravespleasure -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 7:11:25 PM)

the original post seems interesting to me in the range of responses. i've been reading it for a few days letting it sort of bubble around in my head and read a number of the responses.

The question posed in the subject is "Does a slave have the right to say no?"

Of course. Unless the slave has been ordered to silence, I can't see why anyone would not be able to "say no". Depending on the type of Master/Dom you are with, their response to that no/begging/crying/whimpering may be different. Isn't it important for a slave to communicate with her owner? For those people who compare slaves to animals.. animals still buck/shy/refuse to move.

Does a slave have a right to choose what she does and doesn't endure? Once limits have been set, I would think not. If it's something that is too much, the slave has the option of walking away/asking for release. If it's hard/hurting then it's important that the slave is communicating that .. Noone is psychic, or a mind reader.

There seems to be some passive aggressiveness in the original post.. mentioning high pain threshold implying that somehow this fact combined with the slave begging for it to stop because it hurts meaning that the Master should have known it was unbearable and should have stopped. Well no slave has the right to dictate how their Master responds. The choices there are to choose a different Master who responds as you expect, or who doesn't push your limits as much. Yes, rough anal sex can do some very nasty things if it goes wrong. If you don't trust your Master to look out for your safety, then it's probably a good idea to move on.

The final question is .. Do you tell her to shut up, or do you stop? Well that would all be down to the particular person. A sadistic person gets pleasure out of pain. Perhaps pushing the boundary to finally get someone with a high pain threshold to scream out no is hot to him? As clearly evidenced by the number of responses, it's a divided issue.

Yourkajira, what I think you really need to ask yourself is whether this situation is right for you. With all the emotionally charged pieces to the background story, it sounds like you might need to do a lot of thinking .. less on the Master's actions, but on your own needs and wants. Do you know your needs and wants?



marieToo -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 7:11:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I simply said some slaves would die for their owners.  I never said anything about murder.    There can be many reasons to die for an owner. 



This statement brought to light a small point that I wanted to make.  If a husband said he would die for his wife or vice versa, it wouldnt be thought of as that odd. 

Theres another thread going on about how important it is in bdsm to be true to your word and agreement in your relationships.



And in both these cases, and Im no rocket scientist here, but in both these cases and  many others,  this stuff would apply to anyone in any relationship where each party valued the other...on whatever level. .  Sometimes I think shining the bdsm light on every topic actually confuses it and makes it into something bigger than it is. 

Im not saying you did that, owned.  It was merely your statement that made this come across my mind.



<Meantime does anyone want to join me in a gang rape of KoM? >



KnightofMists -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 7:29:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

<Meantime does anyone want to join me in a gang rape of KoM? >


mmmmmmmmmm sounds like a roleplay for me... aaaaaaaw so just how much fight do you want me to do until I relent to the pleasures *G*



mnottertail -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 7:37:14 PM)

Ah, fuck 'em.....just say no. (you got the right).

Ron



WhipTheHip -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 7:39:09 PM)

Do slaves have a right to say, "No" to really, really bad puns, delivered with no lube?



Nimkii -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 7:52:01 PM)

My answer in short is, Yes of course I would stop. Fisrt I wouln't be in the position or put my slav ein to position of doing anal without lube. Just my persoanl choice. Ther is always room to say No. Does it happen often ? I would suspect not. But slaves are still people, not doormats



Lordandmaster -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 9:14:08 PM)

Uh huh, and when you said I need an ethics class--was that intended personally or was that merely another misinterpreted generality?

I'm amused that you're now complaining about how people resort to insults when they don't agree with each other.  YOU barged into this thread with your insult sprayer on full bore.  You might want to go back and reread some of the things you've said over the past 24 hours in your various "debates."

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i understand where the hostility is coming from. You took it personally what i said in generalities - sorry your feelings were hurt. i agree let's let it go.



velvetears -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 11:02:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, and when you said I need an ethics class--was that intended personally or was that merely another misinterpreted generality?

I'm amused that you're now complaining about how people resort to insults when they don't agree with each other.  YOU barged into this thread with your insult sprayer on full bore.  You might want to go back and reread some of the things you've said over the past 24 hours in your various "debates."

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i understand where the hostility is coming from. You took it personally what i said in generalities - sorry your feelings were hurt. i agree let's let it go.



Put's a band aid on your boo boo and hopes it feels all better.  All better now [:)]  Hope we can move past it and go on to more contructive discourse



Bearlee -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/5/2006 9:38:24 AM)

 

All ya have to do is look at that elephant's dick to see what happens when ya try to butt-fuck without benifit of lube!
 
 
<runs>



kitty2MLoneWolf -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/5/2006 10:07:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

<Meantime does anyone want to join me in a gang rape of KoM? >


mmmmmmmmmm sounds like a roleplay for me... aaaaaaaw so just how much fight do you want me to do until I relent to the pleasures *G*


ooooo... me... pick me.. please??? Pick me..



malakas -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (10/1/2006 2:48:29 AM)

A true slave cannot say no.

The right to say no nullifies slave status.

It's not a matter of consent but one of definition.



RedSavageSlave -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (10/1/2006 6:44:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: malakas

A true slave cannot say no.

The right to say no nullifies slave status.

It's not a matter of consent but one of definition.


Oh Gawd.. please dont lets start on definition of a sub vs slave AGAIN!



Daddysredhead -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (10/1/2006 7:30:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Now within the construct of my own "house" the slave has the basic options of
Obey
Question and ask for clarification
Express their desire not to do something, and ask that I reconsider
Walk


I like this options list.  Very clear and concise.

To the OP...
mutual respect, as stated by many already, is the key to any relationship.  When a person's well-being and health are concerned, that respect is even more so.  There have been times when my Master has wanted to do things, and we do them, but something goes awry and it starts to feel really bad.  It is up to me to relay that information to Him and up to Him to make sure that He is not doing damage to me, the one He loves. 



thisishis -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (10/1/2006 8:16:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

In certain cases.

for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) the girl who has such a high pain tolerence begs you stop, because it hurts too much.Now, this is a girl who has been raped (on several different occurances) in the past and you know this. Do you tell her basically that she has no right to deny you something that you want, and do it anyway, especially if you are...um...well endowed and don't take it easy. So, do you stop or tell her to shut up?
If  we are speaking of an O/s relationship where the owner holds the right to all decision making power within the relationship, the owner of the slave has the unlimited right to determine which priviledge's are allowed to the slave (as well as which are not). In that case, where the owner holds all rights, a slave has no rights, and it may have certain priviledges given by the owner. 

Using the OP as an example: If the owner decides that they wish to have anal sex with the slave and skip the lube, it's the owner's right to do so. The owner may decide in this instance to grant the slave the priviledge of lube being used, and they don't have to.
It is also the owner's right  to reconcider whether or not to carry through with the act of anal at that time with the slave should they realize that the slave has expressed that it hurts too much, and they do not have to.

my opinion: A responsible owner who values their property may or may not decide to cause pain to their slave. A responsible owner who values their property, and is interested in, and responsible in maintaining their property, rather than making choices which would cause the value to depreciate, will limit permanent damage to their property.



jamesthehumanrug -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (10/1/2006 9:39:28 AM)

I HOPE I CAN MAKE THIS CLEAR TO YOU personally:
i give full power to MY TOP AND ALL HER' executive decisions, on everything;i trust myself ,that much;everyone wants to die in bed;happy;VANILLA OR NOT....
however, in this case ;the point being ,that the anal canal is sensitive and delicate and punctures easily, so when raped; it may,also be puntured ;and psychological psychosomatic pain ,also, in addition ,to the bodys' painful physical-warning systems; will present themsleves EVERYTIME;
you can go ahead and injure her ,if you ,both have no limits and;NEVER BEING ABLE TO SAY NO; depends on the amount of commitment;
you can give your life in a marraige ;
life and death power, in some cultures ,and IN some subcultures,but, know :it hurts, without a germicidal- lube ,as preventive to pain, and, bacerial -infection;which is expected ; due to the wall being puntured ,between the vaginal and anal cannals;vagina and ANUS have their own bacterial populations; like the stomach HAS ECOLI;etc, and ,if it goes into another place ;it multiplies ,and does'nt get processed ,by the body;

s and m is consent ,between educated(knowledgeble) consenting ;conscious adult-individuals;otherwise; consequenses later;
ever sued by an s and m couple ,or slave? messy?!
*my question is about the previous rapists:
SO-
what did you do ,or what's done to the rape- artists ,before you ,in, that slaves' life?!!;
*is she a valuble slave ,with a respected top ,or a garbage victim?
*did you get ripped of a slave? ,or was she 'ripped' litterally speaking;
remember :
in speaking terms; it is, always litterally-true ,in pathological-situations,so  WHEN speaking  ;"ripped"  IT is litterally true =
SO...was she "ripped" ,in any sense of the word?,OR WERE YOU RIPPED?,OF A SLAVE ,BY A PATHOLOGICAL SITUATION;?
so which is it?you and/or her were ripped wide apart?
ALWAYS remember ,that litterally true rule;
it ,maybe ,a little, off the topic, but, when speaking ,
if you  ever find yourself , in REAL-pathological- situations:
litterally true means litterally true!;(so watch out)
ie: "we want to have you ,for dinner "
MEANS:
YOU ARE COOKED;get outta' there!ASAP,
;AND ,they  ARE having YOUR AZ, FOR DINNER !....
SO........
ARE YOU GONNA' RIP YOUR LOVER?....who,if anyone  ripped them apart???[:-]mmmm?



Amaros -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (10/1/2006 10:23:47 AM)

Think I'm gonna have to side with Juliet here - on the one hand, you might come out a stronger person for having been pushed into a place you don't want to go - on the other hand, it's your life: you're the one that has to set your priorities, and you're the one that has to live with your choices.

Which might include a pathological depression, a prolaped colon, or other unpleasantries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

i have always been  a nolimits slave. i was always of the opinion that i would never be made to do something that was harmful for me in a way that i would want to stop. i dont even have a safeword. i have never wanted to say no. but i did here.

would that say something? or would it seem just stupid, or disobedient


I am a slave. To me, the idea of having no safeword doesn't sound stupid, and I've made your assumption as well. However, I've made that assumption based on an underlying bigger assumption - that the person I've chosen to be with had a sense of right and wrong and the good judgment necessary to act in a responsible manner.

When it happens that he doesn't, and I'm put at significant physical risk - the admit to the hospital kind of risk - then I don't allow words like "slavery" to get in the way.

My first responsibility is always to myself - to maintain good health, both physical and emotional. I do what's necessary to fulfill that responsibility - whether it be talk to him, or walk. Walking is always our option - even if we like to say we have no rights other than what he gives us.

juliet



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