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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Yum!  Brings the guacamole...

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ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

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ORIGINAL: DivinityWitheld

Always, the real control of a relationship is in the subs, the sub draws the line, the sub normaly is allowing the dominant freedom, the only check to the freedom is the slaves word.

But there is a difference between a "slave" and a "sub"

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ORIGINAL: Archer

I disagree both parties have the right to walk, so the party who is most ready to walk that tends to have the control, regardless of which side of the d/s they are.

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ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

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ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I agree with Archer.  Both sides can say no at any point. There should be the mutual respect in the relationship t understand that if the slave doesnt want o do something, there is a reason. To push a slave to the point they are wiling to say no to you means there usually is a damn god reason they do so, and that should be taken into account.  My boy is a slave, and I kow that he is obedient to a fault, so for him to say no, evne ifhe cannot immediately explain why, he hs his reasons for not wanting to or being able to do something. I simply get that reason.

DV

I would have thought that He would have known that it was important. I have NEVER said no to anything that He wanted. After all, He is the one who wakes me up kicking and screaming in the night.

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ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

You know that reminds me, I like good guac, but I hate it when manufactuer's and stuff fuck with seasoning and whipping and blending an this that and the other so the finished produc is nothing like authentic guac

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Yum!  Brings the guacamole...

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ORIGINAL: millisande

Greetings all: Masters, Mistresses, Switches, subs, slaves, and undecided alike.

i am about to do the unpopular thing... i'm going to that a slave does not have the right to tell his/her Master/Mistress 'no.'
One of the things that you do when you choose to become a slave is give up your rights to another.
Now, assuming(yeah, i know, ass-you-me, and all that) that you knew what you were doing when you made your screne name Yourkajira, i have a little quote for you. a couple of them actually. These are from the books of Gor, as, well, that is what your name implies.
Read, think, respond, if you wish, and are permitted to do so.

“The life of a female slave,” he said, “is a life wholly given over to love. It is not a compromised life. It is not one of those lives which is part this, and part that. It is a total way of life, a total life. The female slave seeks to give all, selflessly, knowing that she, as she is a mere slave, a rightless animal owned by her master, one who can be bought and sold at his least whim, can make no claims, that she deserves nothing, and is entitled to not the least attention or consideration. There are no bargains made with her, no arrangements.”
Mercenaries of Gor - Page 435
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The slave is not a person before Gorean law but a rightless animal.
Slave Girl of Gor - Page 151
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In the eyes of Goreans, and Gorean law, the slave is an animal. She is not a person, but an animal. She has no name, saving what her master might choose to call her. She is without caste. She is without citizenship. She is simply an object, to be bartered, or bought or sold. She is simply an article of property, completely, nothing more.
Hunters of Gor - Page 148
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Yes, my dear, you are legally an animal. In the eyes of Gorean law you are an animal. You have no name in your own right. You may be collared and leashed. You may be bought and sold, whipped, treated as the master pleases, disposed of as he sees fit. You have no rights whatsoever.Explorers of Gor - Page 316--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a few notes... Yes, i am aware that earth is not Gor. Yes, i am aware that there is no legal slavery here. No, i do not live in a world of fantasy. The thoughts presented in the above quotes, however, do make up a small bit of the Gorean philosophy as it applies to the keeping of slaves.

A further note: Just because one has a piece of property, does not mean one should abuse it. If i set my house on fire, it would cease to be a good house, now wouldn't it? Nor does any of this mean that, if you are legitimately concerned, you should not talk to your Master. After all, how can He make the best decisions reguarding His property, if He does not have all the applicable data?

Best of wishes to thee and thine,With all respect, and in hopes that this is pleasing to the Free,
bina, of Wolf.

<message edited for stupidity>

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ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

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ORIGINAL: Yourkajira
In certain cases. for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) the girl who has such a high pain tolerence begs you stop, because it hurts too much.Now, this is a girl who has been raped (on several different occurances) in the past and you know this. Do you tell her basically that she has no right to deny you something that you want, and do it anyway, especially if you are...um...well endowed and don't take it easy. So, do you stop or tell her to shut up?

You stop.   Latter, you might ask if she really wanted you to stop.   But there is no question,
you shouldn't do anything she doesn't want you to do, unless that was clearly negotiated
IMEDIATELY beforehand and put on paper.  For the sake of not causing tissue damage,
you should always use lube.   Not using lots of lube in my opinion is insane.  There needs
to be a lot better communication between sub and slave.  This question would never
come up, had this been discussed with the sub before hand.  What makes bdsm
legal is the fact that it is consensual.  And consensual requires a level of communication
to ensure there are no misunderstandings. 
 
In any event you need to be very careful when you do anything like this to make
sure you don't tear tissue or cause any damage.    Any dom who causes physical
damage to their sub, should be hung by his balls.  If this law was in effect, would
you stop, if your sub asked you to stop during such an act.
 
Even if a sub told me before hand that I could do this, I would stop.    It is the Top's
ultimate responsibility not to damage the body of the sub.  If a sub begged me to
damage her body, I would not do it.  It would also be against the law in many
states and a prosecutable offense.    You can't legally damage somone's body,
even if they consent.
 
Concerning the fact she was raped in the past, this is something that requires
extensive discussion before play, and you need to discuss how forced play
would effect her.  In a situation like this you need to be extra careful, not to
damage her psyche.  It is always better to err on the side of caution and safety. 
You can always ask her she felt about it.  If you are into forcing her to endure
things she really doesn't want, and you know she raped, you have to find out if
this is really something she generally wants you to do.  If you are doing it against
her general wishes then you are being abusive and taking advantage of her.
 
If you are the sub, you should get therapy and flee from this guy.   He is
dangerous and uncaring.
 
Except for real tissue damage, everything is negotiable and should be
negotiated before hand.  If a top does something without first getting
consent, it is most likely a crime and a presecutable offense.  If a top
does something without consent, that you really didn't like, you should
flee from this top or dom.    A collar is not a license to abuse a sub or
violate the law.

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ORIGINAL: DivinityWitheld

Always, the real control of a relationship is in the subs, the sub draws the line, the sub normaly is allowing the dominant freedom, the only check to the freedom is the slaves word.