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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/3/2006 11:54:21 PM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

Why? It's still consent. There's a line *somewhere* that will make them change their minds about the relationship. It might not be what would break mine, or anyone else's - but there *is* a line.

For you, perhaps.


I agree with ownedgirlie. No one owns copyright on the final word regarding the bounds of consensual slavery. That one may not be capable of fathoming something does not rule it out as a reality for others. This is an obvious truth to those who think deep enough on the matter.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/3/2006 11:54:30 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		If thats how it works for you and your Master fine - then qualify that in your generalized statements.  As everyone does here i am stating my opinions and i would venture to say many would agree with the fact that a slave whi is so "enslaved" she cannot remove herself from a bad situation is in a dangerous situation.

You didn't have to say anyhing about reason being disrupted - the situation you presented spoke for itself. 

You keep making reference of me speaking for all individuals. Re read my post and get your facts straight, and don't make assumptions.

And as far as needing to be a "miracle therapist" to understand it's insane to give up your life for someone else because they are your "Master" it doesn't take one - it just takes a person with common sense and self preservation instincts.

The only offense i took was to a slave grandstanding about what slavery is all about. 

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:04:43 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

If thats how it works for you and your Master fine - then qualify that in your generalized statements.  As everyone does here i am stating my opinions and i would venture to say many would agree with the fact that a slave whi is so "enslaved" she cannot remove herself from a bad situation is in a dangerous situation.

I merely said "there are slaves who...."  Does that not qualify it enough?  I did not say "all" nor did I say "this is the way it must be."  I simply said "there are slaves who..." which is to also say "there are slaves who don't..."  I did not mention the "don't" part because that was already being stated, repeatedly.
quote:


You didn't have to say anyhing about reason being disrupted - the situation you presented spoke for itself. 

To you it did, yes.  There, I took your advice and qualified it for you :)
quote:


You keep making reference of me speaking for all individuals. Re read my post and get your facts straight, and don't make assumptions.

From your post (bolded parts just for fun):
"This is not healthy for any individual..."
"And any slave who would give up her life..."
I'm sorry, you were saying?
quote:


And as far as needing to be a "miracle therapist" to understand it's insane to give up your life for someone else because they are your "Master" it doesn't take one - it just takes a person with common sense and self preservation instincts.

You assume a lot here. 
quote:


The only offense i took was to a slave grandstanding about what slavery is all about. 

It is confusing why you think that by simply saying "SOME" slaves do certain things, I was grandstanding.  If I said "Some slaves do NOT..." do certain things...would that be grandstanding also?  

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:10:15 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
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From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

If thats how it works for you and your Master fine - then qualify that in your generalized statements. As everyone does here i am stating my opinions and i would venture to say many would agree with the fact that a slave whi is so "enslaved" she cannot remove herself from a bad situation is in a dangerous situation.

You didn't have to say anyhing about reason being disrupted - the situation you presented spoke for itself.

You keep making reference of me speaking for all individuals. Re read my post and get your facts straight, and don't make assumptions.

And as far as needing to be a "miracle therapist" to understand it's insane to give up your life for someone else because they are your "Master" it doesn't take one - it just takes a person with common sense and self preservation instincts.

The only offense i took was to a slave grandstanding about what slavery is all about.


Funny, but I see you making a good deal of grandstanding general assumptions—and judgments, too. I believe girlie's only intent is to demonstrate a hole in previous assumptions. I would stand behind her to back it up, too.

I think we can all agree to partake in intelligent conversation without getting angry and offended.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:20:29 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Dictionary term of what any means: one, a, an, or some; one or more without specification or identification: If you have any witnesses, produce them. Pick out any six you like.
 
Dictionary term of that all means: the whole number of (used in referring to individuals or particulars, taken collectively): all students.
 
Just to clear up your misconceptions on the meaning of the terms "any" and "all".

It's the tone and way you present slaves that i found a bit grandstanding - the " i have no limits, i will even die for my Master if that is his wish, whatever meager necessities like lube his allows me i will be so ever grateful for because i am no more then mere chattel, to be used and treated however he sees fit"  - thats what i mean. And no you did not say that exact sentence but all in total - thats what it amounted to.

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:25:09 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Status: offline 		You are reading far too much into my words, and creating drama from them.  Your argument appears to have turned emotional based, rather than logic based.  There was no "tone" to my post, other than the tone with which you read it.   As such, there is no point to continue this debate within this thread.

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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:25:23 AM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
Funny, but I see you making a good deal of grandstanding general assumptions—and judgments, too. I believe girlie's only intent is to demonstrate a hole in previous assumptions. I would stand behind her to back it up, too.

I think we can all agree to partake in intelligent conversation without getting angry and offended.


i read many threads here and have a pretty good idea in where you stand about slavery so it doesn't surprise me. Your entitled as anyone here is to your opinions. What you call asumptions and judgements are my opinions. i am sure many would share them as well.

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Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:27:43 AM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

You are reading far too much into my words, and creating drama from them.  Your argument appears to have turned emotional based, rather than logic based.  There was no "tone" to my post, other than the tone with which you read it.   As such, there is no point to continue this debate within this thread.


No drama - just replying to your post as you thought to reply to mine. i agree you said your piece and i have said mine. No need to beat a dead horse.

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Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:31:03 AM   
amayos


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From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
i am sure many would share them as well.


And many don't.

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 12:53:48 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		Color me clueless if you will. But why are people hellbent on denouncing the activities that individuals have within their private relationships? Who are you to profess what is dominance, submission, or slavery. Furthermore, how can these things be appropriately quantified under the guise of a nickname on a message board? No matter what is revealed or stated on this forum, we are merely seeing snapshots of someone, not the whole in it's entirety.

The mere thought of calling into question someone's practices and engaging in a battle of sorts seems proposterous when the individual is neither your responsibility or yours to serve or own. I find that the very people that are suspceptible of doing such often fail to apply the same attention and pruning to their own relations.

porcelaine

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Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 1:21:20 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
Who are you to profess what is dominance, submission, or slavery.

Your post shows it is in reply to me.  I can only say I did not profess anything of the kind.  I'm not sure where you saw that I did.

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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 1:34:31 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
Who are you to profess what is dominance, submission, or slavery.

Your post shows it is in reply to me.  I can only say I did not profess anything of the kind.  I'm not sure where you saw that I did.


Sorry hon, I closed the wrong window. This was intended as a general post instead. Forgive me? *g*

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 1:37:17 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
Who are you to profess what is dominance, submission, or slavery.

Your post shows it is in reply to me.  I can only say I did not profess anything of the kind.  I'm not sure where you saw that I did.


Sorry hon, I closed the wrong window. This was intended as a general post instead. Forgive me? *g*

porcelaine

*grins* kiss me on the other side and you're forgiven...

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 2:01:00 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

*grins* kiss me on the other side and you're forgiven...


Not on your life Madam Sassafrass. You don't have permission. *winks*

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 4:16:25 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		This thread is so old, I feel silly posting a reply. But my answer is "no" - but I do think slaves can leave and never return. In order to do this, some people believe they should beg for release, and in most cases I've read about, a Master gives permission for them to scram if they do this. If not, and it was a life-threatening situation, I'd probably plan an escape attempt anyway. Some, I've read, are just told to leave if they ask permission to do that. I've never read of a case where a slave begged for relase and was told "no" but am sure it's probably happened. But, what Master wants a slave who doesn't want to be there anymore?
* But, a Master not using lube isn't life-threatening, is it?  Even if it hurts a whole lot? I feel the OP's pain, so to speak, but maybe a heart-to-heart chat w/Master is in order (depending on how you think he'll view this)? Or - just doing the requested act? Good luck.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/4/2006 4:33:11 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 9:06:34 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

In certain cases.

for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) the girl who has such a high pain tolerence begs you stop, because it hurts too much.Now, this is a girl who has been raped (on several different occurances) in the past and you know this. Do you tell her basically that she has no right to deny you something that you want, and do it anyway, especially if you are...um...well endowed and don't take it easy. So, do you stop or tell her to shut up?


Hi Yourkajira:

IMO, there is a kind of structural problem in the question "Do slaves have the right to say no".  Within the question theres an assumption that everyone defines "slave" in the same way. Clearly there are varying ideas of what a slave is and how each MS relationship is practiced.   Hence many people on this thread getting protective of their own definitions of what is right and wrong.
Although you've given a very good example scenerio from which the posters may refer, before answering,  it still doesn't help to get any definitive answer, because the act itself is irrelevant to the question of whether or not "slaves have a "right to say no".  

I think if posed in such a way where we assume that there are different "types" of slaves (simply because people view the meaning of the word differently) the answer would be a 'no-brainer' as they say, regardless if its about being taken anally without lube or sweeping a floor.

Are there slaves who do not have the right to say no?  Yes.

Are there slaves who do not want that right?  Yes

Are you the 'kind' of slave who would want the right to say no?
 

edited to add, that I am guilty of not reading every single post here, so maybe you already spoke of your own opinion but I didnt see it.  If so, I apologize!! 

< Message edited by marieToo -- 9/4/2006 9:10:55 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 9:26:34 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Then you need a better dictionary, and a course in symbolic logic might help too.  "Not any" means "none"; it negates a predicate for "all."  "X is not true for any slave" means "For all slaves, X is not true."  Or, to use your own statement, "This is not healthy for any individual..." means "For all individuals, this is not healthy."

And I don't believe you're in any way qualified to say what is healthy for all individuals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Dictionary term of what any means: one, a, an, or some; one or more without specification or identification: If you have any witnesses, produce them. Pick out any six you like.
 
Dictionary term of that all means: the whole number of (used in referring to individuals or particulars, taken collectively): all students.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 9:37:29 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

And I don't believe you're in any way qualified to say what is healthy for all individuals. 


Would this 'belief" of yours apply to  all individuals LaM?  Or just velvet? 

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 9:40:08 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Heh.  Good question.  In theory I'm willing to accept the possibility that SOME individuals might be able to say what is healthy for all (though I've never met ANYONE who qualifies).

In any case, velvet would not be one of those individuals, if there are any.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

And I don't believe you're in any way qualified to say what is healthy for all individuals. 


Would this 'belief" of yours apply to  all individuals LaM?  Or just velvet? 

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/4/2006 9:46:17 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

And I don't believe you're in any way qualified to say what is healthy for all individuals.



If you have a beef with the dictionary definition - take it up with them.

Hey if you wanna support a post that implies it's not unhealthy for a slave to kill herself if her Master tells her too thats your perogative. i doubt many will support that stance.  i personally would hate a newbie reading posts here to get the impression slaves are mindless, self sacrificing, robots who obey irregardless of safety. i won't endorse it ever - if you do i feel sorry for you, you need a course in ethics.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 180
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