RE: Do slaves have the right to say no?

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (Full Version)

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WhippingPostNY -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 7:55:24 PM)
In my home it would be my decision to continue or not. That said - I would not be in this dilemma in the first place. She would never need to beg me to stop. I would have already stopped when I perceived that the pain was too much for her - especially since she is normally able to take so much. Then questions. Then cessation - or lube. It is her best interest that I cherish most. Especially when tormenting her. WP

Lordandmaster -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:11:39 PM)
I assume you understand that the relationship between a master and a slave isn't dictated by what the slave enjoys and considers fun. quote: ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW If something is trully causing her excruciating pain and shes not enjoying it, why keep hurting her? Theres a point when it isnt fun anymore and is a safeword is used it is time to stop. Slaves do have feelings and can lose trust if their feelings are abused.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:15:13 PM)
Yes, I have been a slave for 12 years. I meant if something is causing her pain that is excruciating then why would a real Master want to cause his slave harm? A real Master wouldn't let this happen in the first place. I live to serve my Masters needs and he doesnt go out of his way to be cruel.

Adelphus -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:19:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhippingPostNY In my home it would be my decision to continue or not. That said - I would not be in this dilemma in the first place. She would never need to beg me to stop. I would have already stopped when I perceived that the pain was too much for her - especially since she is normally able to take so much. Then questions. Then cessation - or lube. It is her best interest that I cherish most. Especially when tormenting her. WP Sounds like you actually know what you're doing, WP. Kudos to you.;-)

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:22:54 PM)
Agrees. There are some that do. Maybe some could learn.[;)]

cadet -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:28:38 PM)
is this an issue of a safeword not being respected? in that case, there's no question in my opinion... a safeword should be just that.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:31:24 PM)
It was not mentioned in the post. Just an example.

puella -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:32:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Any Person of any Orientation has the ability to say No.... The question is... does one wish to accept the Consequences of saying No or Not saying No.... and secondly... what are the consequences? Sure, sure... steal my post and look more fab in those leather pants... dang it!

ImpGrrl -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:34:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Well, that's complicated, because "consent" has a legal definition, and according to that definition you can't consent to being enslaved. No, you can't consent to "being enslaved", but you can consent to just about everything that is encompassed by that. I say "almost" because in some US states, one cannot consent to "abuse" - mostly seen in our circles as arrests of tops for beating bottoms, despite the bottoms stating in no uncertain terms that there was no "abuse" going on. quote: In my own relationships, it's simple. A slave can say "no" or "stop" at any moment, and then the relationship is permanently ended. We aren't quite that cut and dry, but yeah - similar here.

ImpGrrl -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:35:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yes, exactly--that's why all the "consent" rhetoric never amounts to much in practice. quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie There are slaves who would say they are so mentally/emotionally bound, they could not leave unless thrown out. So when others say "leave whenever you want," this is not something they relate to. Why? It's still consent. There's a line somewhere that will make them change their minds about the relationship. It might not be what would break mine, or anyone else's - but there is a line.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:41:44 PM)
I don't know why you assume that. For some people, there is no line. Maybe that doesn't work for you, or maybe you can't even fathom that. But it's true. Of course, I don't want to get into the whole "no-limits" controversy, because I've already said everything I have to say about that, and it always becomes a long and acrimonious and ultimately fruitless discussion. quote: ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl Why? It's still consent. There's a line somewhere that will make them change their minds about the relationship. It might not be what would break mine, or anyone else's - but there is a line.

velvetears -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:51:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Slavery in the D/s concept is a mental state. It's not D/s it's M/s, and its not only a mental state. It can encompass the physical and spiritual as well. There are slaves who would say they are so mentally/emotionally bound, they could not leave unless thrown out. So when others say "leave whenever you want," this is not something they relate to. This is not healthy for any individual to have all of one's faculties of reason so disrupted as to not be able to leave even when a dangerous situation presents itself. But for the sake of the OP this is obviously not the case since she is here and asking these questions. There are slaves who would find it amusing and/or offensive that anyone else would assume what their limits are. They would gladly give up their lives for their Masters, without a second thought. No one assumed what anyones limits were only that everyone has them, even slaves who think they do not. And any slave who would give up her life for their Master, unless under a circumstance that she was perhaps saving his life, needs professional help. That is simple foolishness. There are slaves who see lubricant for anal sex as a luxury, and are grateful when allowed it. There are slavess who thrive on that "just because he can" mentality, and who are grateful to belong to someone with that view. Kudos to them. You sound as if this makes them somehow better slaves?? The OP obviously had rape issues and the anal sex episode that went beyond the scope of what she was able to handle. i am sure there have been 100's of threads debating the sub vs slave thing. Everyone defines it differently. And each person can tailor it to their own expectations and preferences, if thats what they want to do. But i think these posts summed up best the concensus of what the whole term "slave" means. BTW, the OP was refering to slaves NOT submissives. best you learn the difference. Slaves DO NOT negotiate once they are collared ever!!! Only submissives negotiate after they are collared. IronBear No, slaves do not have the right to say no. If you want that right, you should be a submissive, rather than a slave. ownedandcollared If your a for real no limit slave then no you had no right to say no. You got yourself into the predicament and you have to pay the consquences……But at least you can walk away and maybe learn something from it. Lashra You stated that your a no-limits slave. Therefore, your only way of saying no to your Owner is to beg release, or to walk. Once you say No-Limits, as far as I'm concerned, it's NO LIMITS! Therefore, the anal sex if fine. wolffeathers A slave does not have the right to refuse. This is why entering slavery is a grim matter; the arrangement should never be taken frivolously, or assumed that at its core it is "just like all relationships." amayos Everyone has them - even "no limits slaves". Those who can consider themselves "no limits" simply haven't found theirs - or are in relationships with people whose limits suit theirs enough that they'd never come up against them. ImpGrrl And i am in agreement with you MistressMelissa in that a slave should always bring honor to her Master and never denigrate him in anyway to anyone. The post could have been constructed in such a way as to not be as personal and divulging of intimate occurances that shoule have stayed between Master and slave. If you are going to wear the title, have it mean something, learn what it is that's required first. To do otherwise is doing a diservice to the one you serve and reflects poorly on yourself.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 8:59:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yourkajira In certain cases. for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) With that said. No she doesnt have the right to say no if she is a slave as she says. Negotiations already took place and its not an option now. If she agreed and had second thoughts after it started, well she should have thought through it more in depth before negotiations took place and she agreed to things.

theRose4U -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 9:02:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yourkajira quote: ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire I would seriously consider talking to him about your feelings, and the fact that even as a slave, you are still a human being. If he understood that you had prior issues, then he should really respect that. However, if you have given him the idea that you believe the same way he does, that you are a slave and your opinions do not count, then part of this might in fact be your own doing. After al, a master that is given carte blanche from their slaves from day one should have no reasno to expect a limit to materailze out of thin air. Was this discussed as a possible issue before? Or did you give him the impression that no matter what he wanted you would never say no? DV i have always been a nolimits slave. i was always of the opinion that i would never be made to do something that was harmful for me in a way that i would want to stop. i dont even have a safeword. i have never wanted to say no. but i did here. would that say something? or would it seem just stupid, or disobedient This is exactly why I lump no-limits slaves in with leprichans and unicorns. YOU DO HAVE LIMITS!! You wouldn't be standing up for yourself if your didn't. Regardless of what D/s disciplines you believe in self preservation is a natural thing. I agree with what archer said, you have 4 choices: Get over it, Ask (which didn't seem to work), Cope or Leave. Unless you perhaps have a tattoo that says welcome on your forehead that we're unaware of you aren't a door mat. Even one that thrives in deep obedience has a right to be treated well. If you desire a sadist well it sounds like you found one. The choice is whether that improves who you are or is just one more way to do harm to yourself.

Homestead -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 9:02:13 PM)
I tend towards control and bondage scenes rather than sm ones. I also am very aware of mental damage that may be done. I live in Washington state, and there needs be no complaint made to be arrested for domestic violence here. Only evidence that your partner has been physically abused. The abused person does not even need to swear out a complaint- the batterer will still go to jail. As far as a slave not being able to say no? They do it all the time, with thier feet. Even if it means only leaving with the clothes on thier backs. So I had damned well not push someone to that point.

faithNZ -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 9:06:01 PM)
Basic human rights should always apply, no matter the role which one is in, be it sub, slave, switch or anything else. The right to be free from abuse is one of those - BDSM walks a fine line already.

millisande -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 9:58:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub She didn't say she was Goran and she is not then you can't quote those rules as applying to her Greetings, aquatic sub. Actually, i can, and i did. And, until such time as a Master, my Owner or another, says otherwise, i shall continue to do so. I also stated that, when i posted those quotes, that i was assuming that she was, and that i might be wrong. Those are things that i feel -ought- to apply to slaves, whether they belong to gorean Masters, or not. They are my viewpoint, and i can, and did, and intend to continue sharing my viewpoint, when a question that i feel strongly about, appears in the general forum. Had she posted in ask a Master, then your statment that i cannot post what i did as applying to her would be true, but only because i am not a Master. best to thee and thine, with all respect, and in hopes that this is pleasing to the Free, bina, of Wolf

theRose4U -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 10:11:24 PM)
quote: Hell, I'm waiting for IB to hitch a ride to the States, meet up with me, and deal with a limit.......But, that's way of subject at this moment. Even on the day of his passing my money would still be on Bear hands down.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 11:24:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yes, exactly--that's why all the "consent" rhetoric never amounts to much in practice. quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie There are slaves who would say they are so mentally/emotionally bound, they could not leave unless thrown out. So when others say "leave whenever you want," this is not something they relate to. Why? It's still consent. There's a line somewhere that will make them change their minds about the relationship. It might not be what would break mine, or anyone else's - but there is a line. For you, perhaps.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/3/2006 11:36:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Slavery in the D/s concept is a mental state. It's not D/s it's M/s, and its not only a mental state. It can encompass the physical and spiritual as well. Indeed. I referred to slavery. I assumed that would mean M/s. I said "slavery in the D/s concept" to differentiate for those who might respond with quips about legal slavery and the laws of our Country, etc. For me, my mind was enslaved and all else followed. That is why I said it is a mental state. There are slaves who would say they are so mentally/emotionally bound, they could not leave unless thrown out. So when others say "leave whenever you want," this is not something they relate to. This is not healthy for any individual to have all of one's faculties of reason so disrupted as to not be able to leave even when a dangerous situation presents itself. But for the sake of the OP this is obviously not the case since she is here and asking these questions. I appreciate your speaking on behalf of all individuals, but I believe both my Master and I know what is healthy for me, better than someone on a message board, reading my posts. I did not say anything about reason being disrupted. Danger is interpreted in various ways, however. There are slaves who would find it amusing and/or offensive that anyone else would assume what their limits are. They would gladly give up their lives for their Masters, without a second thought. No one assumed what anyones limits were only that everyone has them, even slaves who think they do not. And any slave who would give up her life for their Master, unless under a circumstance that she was perhaps saving his life, needs professional help. That is simple foolishness. Again, it is nice of you to speak on behalf of all individuals. First of all, there was a perceived assumption in a post on this thread that death is a limit for all, and that is what I was speaking to. Second, it is not up to you to decide who needs professional help, based on one sentence, unless you are a miracle psychotherapist. Are you? Think me a fool; it matters not. There are slaves who see lubricant for anal sex as a luxury, and are grateful when allowed it. There are slavess who thrive on that "just because he can" mentality, and who are grateful to belong to someone with that view. Kudos to them. You sound as if this makes them somehow better slaves?? The OP obviously had rape issues and the anal sex episode that went beyond the scope of what she was able to handle. Thank you for the kudos, at least you said something nice about others in your post. If you interpreted me as assuming that makes them better, you are incorrect. I simply said there are those who enjoy that mentality. It was a reply to an assumption that such a mentality was bad somehow. If you took offense to it, that was your own doing. My post was not speaking about the OP herself. In fact, I have not replied an opinion at all in regards to the OP. I was speaking to other assumptions that were made in posts on this thread.

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