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marieToo -> RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? (9/4/2006 12:44:06 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: velvetears
quote:
ORIGINAL: marieToo
Velvet:
Some people think its sick. Others think its heaven. And its ok for you to find it sick, or wrong or abusive or 'unhealthy' as you put it.. And its ok to say it, if you want to, and argue against it. We dont need qualifications to judge any type of relationship as healthy or unhealthy, we only need core beliefs; and we all have those.
In my experiences I have found that some (not all) who do practice or have practiced that level of slavery believe themselves that its 'fucked-up', but they crave it. Anything less is simply not potent enough for them. You dont need to bleed for any slaves who live this way, honey. There are slaves who would take any pain their Master wishes to deliver, up to and including being torn from stem to stern in a brutal ass rape. And you know what? The same slave will thank Master for it---just for the honor---for the very priviledge of being the one he chooses to hurt. And its as special to them as it is sick.
Thank you marieToo for a very thoughtful and considerate post. i agree people should decide for themselves how they should live their bdsm relationship. my beliefs, values, ethics and such are just that mine. Others will have different beliefs, ethisc and values.
The point wasn't if a slave objected to the pain her master subjected her to, it was to taking her very life. Is there never a point as human beings (put aside being dom subs slave etc) that we say this is simply wrong. Suppose a Master wanted to train a slaves unmentionable to be a slave? Do we turn a blind eye? What about the case in Germany where those gentlemen got together and one canibalized the other with his consent? Can someome who thinks so little of their own life that they would allow another to take if from them really give consent? Don't we as thinking human beings have to question what is happening?? This lifestyle is about SSC - nothing safe or sane about being asked to kill yourself.
I probably missed this part (death) somewhere along the line. No, I wouldnt think its ok to give your life in such a way, though some would argue that giving your life for your country, your freedoms, or to save another person drowning in a river would be honorable.
In an Ms Ds or any other type of relationship, the giving of one's life would be something that I would consider wasteful not to mention immoral. A dead slave is of no use to most Masters anyway. And really, can you imagine someone trying to explain that one to the cops? "Honest officer, she did it cuz I wanted her to prove her devotion to me".
The reason I posted to you here (and I was trying to avoid this thread, other than to read it) is that, I see/saw myself in your words. I think where you're coming from is a place that I try to touch on from time to time on these threads.
The thing is this....In my world, its not ok to exploit the naive, its not ok to deceive, and its not ok to take advantage of the weak-minded. I would definately consider that dishonorable. Now, there are people in all walks of life, all genders, vanilla, flavored or what have you, that victimize people in a myriad of ways every day, many of them in their interpersonal relationships. I dont think thats ok either. I judge that as wrong, I judge that as dishonorable, I judge it as every dirty filthy word the english language can offer to describe it as sinful. BUT that is not the same thing as someone who chooses to be in twisted relationship because their desire for 'twisted' over rides their concern for what is healthy for them. Like you, I used to get all riled up over this stuff. All riled up over the type of Masters that would put a suction hose down your throat, suck out your soul and replace it with their own. This is what I consider jokingly as the "lobotomized slave". They do exist. They dont live as lovers or spouses, they dont live with the right to be comfortable, or the right to complain, or the right to say no, or the right to expect anything, or the right have anything more than a hole in the ground to piss in...but as long as no one STOLE those rights from them by way of deceit, and as long as the slave chooses to give up those rights...How could it be wrong? I can still see it as unhealthy, or sick or dark but maybe some people like and enjoy unhealthy and sick and dark. I know its hard to get past this. When I tell you I struggle with this every day of my life, Im not kidding you. I struggle with it in the worst possible way, because Im the "junkie" who resists the line of cocaine. Why? Because common sense overrides my desire for the high. I choose a more "sane" version of Ds because at this time in my life, risk is not a luxury I can afford. But I can so understand those who choose this now. For a long time, I couldnt accept it, because it wasnt in line with my choice and my own NEED to convince myself that this type of relationship is wrong. (amayos has taken the brunt of this, because he represents to me, all that I wish I could hate) Master and slave could have been replaced in my mind with the terms "Thief and victim". Its hard to wrap your mind around the idea that there are some people who would rather be the shit on the bottom of Masters shoes, than be his princess. But they do exist, velvet. When you accept that they are there not by way of victimization, but by way of choice, you will be less upset by these types of subjects. Take it from me. lol.
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