RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub?

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[Poll]

Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub?

i am a sub/slave and was abused in the past.

33% (33)

i am a sub/slave that was NOT abused in the past

51% (51)

I am an Owner who's slave/sub was abused in the past

5% (5)

I am an Owner who's slave/sub was NOT abused in the past

10% (10)

Total Votes : 99

(last vote on : 7/4/2010 2:51:11 PM)
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RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:17:17 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I do not think I have seen many broken submissives, perhaps we should take a poll?.. No it is not about me, I am not a switch either, but I noted her generalization about them also.. why bring up dead fish on a new thread estring? Why not discuss the issue at hand instead of personalizing it? I haven't once done that here, yet I am singled out because I use the term "wrong headed", it is "wrong headed" in my opinion.. which we all have one...

Back to the issue at hand, how would YOU prove submissives are broken people who have suffered abuse and that is why they are the way they are?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 41

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:26:06 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

Sorry, the theory doesn't work for me. Been submissive my whole life. Has nothing to do with abuse.

(in reply to ownedandcollared)

Post #: 42

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:26:22 PM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

I seen a lot more broken and deranged Tops than bottoms.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 43

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:29:31 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

I seen a lot more broken and deranged Tops than bottoms.

Im lucky I have not met any of these, although one was out to lunch...smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 44

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:34:59 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not think I have seen many broken submissives, perhaps we should take a poll?.. No it is not about me, I am not a switch either, but I noted her generalization about them also.. why bring up dead fish on a new thread estring? Why not discuss the issue at hand instead of personalizing it? I haven't once done that here, yet I am singled out because I use the term "wrong headed", it is "wrong headed" in my opinion.. which we all have one...

Back to the issue at hand, how would YOU prove submissives are broken people who have suffered abuse and that is why they are the way they are?

I am not trying to prove the op's question one way or the other. You didn't just state that her opinion was wrong headed, you said it proved her lack of understanding of submissives. Quite judgemental I would say. And you were so ready to pounce on her, you neglected to notice it wasn't her opinion anyway. Because you haven't been broken or abused doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Your whole original post is all about what doesn't happen to you. Well, then I guess we are not talking about you then, are we?

< Message edited by Estring -- 9/2/2006 5:35:22 PM >

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 45

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:37:47 PM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not think I have seen many broken submissives, perhaps we should take a poll?.. No it is not about me, I am not a switch either, but I noted her generalization about them also.. why bring up dead fish on a new thread estring? Why not discuss the issue at hand instead of personalizing it? I haven't once done that here, yet I am singled out because I use the term "wrong headed", it is "wrong headed" in my opinion.. which we all have one...

Back to the issue at hand, how would YOU prove submissives are broken people who have suffered abuse and that is why they are the way they are?

I am not trying to prove the op's question one way or the other. You didn't just state that her opinion was wrong headed, you said it proved her lack of understanding of submissives. Quite judgemental I would say. And you were so ready to pounce on her, you neglected to notice it wasn't her opinion anyway. Because you haven't been broken or abused doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Your whole original post is all about what doesn't happen to you. Well, then I guess we are not talking about you then, are we?

I have had four of five subs in the past, who had backgrounds of abuse. It was a mixed bag. You had to be careful of thier triggers. I came to dislike the tension.

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 46

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:43:10 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I have the right to my own opinion, and I think that this theory is wrong headed and those who think this do not understand submission. I am allowed this opinon, and I note that you have not said anything about the OP's opinion about switches, which means I am being singled out for having an opinion... why? We all judge things, I never said I was not judgmental...look in the dictionary and you will see a pic of me under that word... at least I can admit it. Anyone holding an opinion on anything IS judgmental. Go through the thread and single out the rest of the submissives that think the theory is horseshit and it does not apply to them. I never said it did not apply to anyone... if you can find where I said that there were not submissives that are unhealthy and crave unhealthy relationships, please point it out to me. There are vanillas who do also.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 47

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:49:58 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Just because a theory doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have no opinion on the op's opinion of switches. I couldn't care less about that. I welcome other subs that disagree, and there have been others. But it is how you disagree with others that counts. Calling them clueless and ragging on them for an opinion that isn't even theirs, isn't the way to do it.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 48

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 5:54:09 PM

angielouwhos

Posts: 87
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline

I do not fit the theory. I had loving parents and about the most traumatic event of my youth was missing a church youth group function because I did not do my "chores". I've also been married to the same man all of my adult life Others have thrown out this theory to me in conversation, and I've always been a bit skeptical of it. Really interested to see the other responses.

(in reply to ownedandcollared)

Post #: 49

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 6:00:07 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I did not call anyone clueless nor did I rag on anyone, you read it this way does not mean it is the reality of it. It is you who have personalized this, not me... I was just stating an opinion about the topic at hand, which everyone else did too. I did not ridicule anyone, I did not call anyone a name, nor did I insult anyone... I said that anyone who thought that submissives are broken people and are submissives because of abuse is wrong headed about that opinion.. you may not like the way I state how I feel about an issue, but that is your personal issue, not mine

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 50

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 6:05:47 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

Well geez! Aside from all the pop psychology mumbo jumbo, I kind of look at this from a chicken and the egg point of view. Which came first? The abuse leading to submission or the submission opening ourselves up for abuse.

For my money - and I was abused in my marriage, but came from a reasonably stable and loving family - I believe that for me, it's more the fact that I was always submissive but didn't know how to handle it or make good judgments when choosing men who were of a stronger personality.

In my growing up years, my mother tried to teach me to be strong and independent and not needing a man in my life. She wanted me to be able to be in charge of my life and of the lives of those around me. That's the way she was and is. Everyone in the family knows, "do what you want, but don't piss off Grandma." She tried to teach me to be like her. I love my mother. I wanted to be like her so much. It just wasn't me.

So, there I was, being all strong and independent and crap, and the message I was putting out was the exact opposite. In my limited knowledge of things psychological (which I'm SURE those who believe they know more about me than me will gleefully correct me on), I believe I was the proverbial sitting duck when it came to someone who was not so much dominant as domineering. And so it went. I strove for a place in my marriage to be who I am in side while still living as my mother had indoctrinated me to be. My husband was doing the same thing...striving to be this "in charge" kind of man, while dealing with demons of his own. We were a time bomb waiting to happen. And we did indeed blow up.

If I'd been like my mother instead of always striving to do everything I could to keep my relationship together - no matter what, I'd have walked the very first time it happened. But I wasn't. I had no experience in how to behave in a manner that would allow me to be the submissive person I am while still keeping myself healthy. It took a long time for me to understand that I could be both submissive AND healthy.

So...to me, the abuse didn't cause the submission. The submission opened the door for the abuse.

juliet

(in reply to angielouwhos)

Post #: 51

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 6:38:10 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Your theory is just wrong headed and shows that you have little understanding of what makes many submissives tick, which has nothing to do with being treated poorly.

And you have more understanding?

quote:

Please point out where I seem threatened?

I would do an EM now, but its late, and I don't have her patience.

quote:

There is a lack of common sense and weird people all over the internet

Nods...

quote:

I haven't once done that here, yet I am singled out because I use the term "wrong headed", it is "wrong headed" in my opinion.. which we all have one...

Not nice to be singled out for one single sentance, is it? Not so pleasent to have assumptions thrown at you?

The world revolves, julia... it just doesnt revolve around a single person.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 52

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 6:46:15 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

You are right as well. i actually do not see much difference between top/bottom and Dom/sub. i was , however, taught to have something of a casual disregard of those who label themselves "switches" because they don't know themselves well enough to know who they are. i don't wish to offend, am just explaining. Now, of course, in different situations, we are different people. At work, you can be full of piss and vinegar, and at home, be prim and proper and obedient. That is the complexity of the human nature. However, in similar situations, i (and my Owner) feel that you should be decisive and know who you are.

Thing is - switches do know who they are - they are switches. You can disregard all you wish, but they wont disappear...

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to ownedandcollared)

Post #: 53

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 6:55:42 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

You can continue to attack me thread to thread dark, I will not stoop.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 54

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 6:59:36 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

fast reply....

WOW....Is there a full moon or something?

To answer the OP's question....it has been in MY experience that I have encountered an abnormally high number of people in this lifestyle who have unresolved abuse issues. I believe this is in part due to the fact that many submissives view Dominants as "White Knights" who will ride in on their trusty steeds and make the whole world better. It is also due in part because there are many Dominants who think of themselves as "White Knights" and attempt to ride in on their trusty steeds and make the world better. I believe it is also in part because unresolved abuse is a major cause of low self esteem and many submissives feel that they are underserving of anything that doesn't have a component of "abuse" or that they at least know how to deal with "abusive" environments because they are familiar with them. I also believe that it is in part due to those who have unresolved abuse issues and are consumed with anger and this lifestyle provides them with plenty of "prey" upon which they can get their release.

Wow, I know that all of that is going to go over like a turd in a punchbowl with alot of people....but it is MY opinion....it is an opinion I have come to over many years of observation in this lifestyle...and as a certified Counselor....it's an opinion that I'm qualified to have.

I'd also like to add that I think that coming into this lifestyle to "fix" your issues is an extremely unhealthy thing to do.

I am submissive....but I didn't get here through an avenue of abuse.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 55

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 7:08:47 PM

deltadawn

Posts: 224
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

I was never abused thankfully, but have met many people who have been. I do believe that there are some that are drawn to the lifestyle who should not be here. Not all of those people have been abused, but many have been.

No matter what type of a relationship people are in, they should approach it as a healthy human being. I have found many who believe that a Dom is the answer to their every problem. That somehow he has the magical touch. That somehow he can take all of their insecurities and make them disappear. Unfortunately for both parties that does not happen, or at least rarely happens.

I have also met many, who claim to be Dominants, that have a "God" image of themselves and seek out those that seek them to "fix" them, again that is something that rarely works.

There is no right or wrong way, no I am correct and you are wrong, but I do believe that any topic is worth discussing as adults on an adult site, and feel this one may have gone the wrong way.

All thoughts here are only my opinion and not based on any research other than for personal knowledge. ~smiles~

dawn

< Message edited by deltadawn -- 9/2/2006 7:11:28 PM >

_____________________________

Beneath his wings, I can fly.

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 56

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 7:11:04 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

No ones attacking you julia - your simply not that important to everyone, just to some. We simply disagree on a few issues. If someone responds to a post of yours, you are constantly claiming your being singled out, yet you keep claiming it's your 'right' to say what you think. It works in reverse as well you know.

Abuse does happen in all walks of life. Which is why polls like this are great - the OP made some points which are up until now in the poll, been shown as misunderstood. So now they can take that info and work on it and learn. Just like anyone can if they choose. But its unfair to attack someone for their assumptions, then get all defensive when their own assumptions are pulled up and feel 'singled out'. If you dont like that someone may disagree with what you have to say then dont post.

Or ignore them and hope they will go away when they make a valid point...

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 57

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 7:14:36 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

fast reply....

WOW....Is there a full moon or something?

To answer the OP's question....it has been in MY experience that I have encountered an abnormally high number of people in this lifestyle who have unresolved abuse issues. I believe this is in part due to the fact that many submissives view Dominants as "White Knights" who will ride in on their trusty steeds and make the whole world better. It is also due in part because there are many Dominants who think of themselves as "White Knights" and attempt to ride in on their trusty steeds and make the world better. I believe it is also in part because unresolved abuse is a major cause of low self esteem and many submissives feel that they are underserving of anything that doesn't have a component of "abuse" or that they at least know how to deal with "abusive" environments because they are familiar with them. I also believe that it is in part due to those who have unresolved abuse issues and are consumed with anger and this lifestyle provides them with plenty of "prey" upon which they can get their release.

Wow, I know that all of that is going to go over like a turd in a punchbowl with alot of people....but it is MY opinion....it is an opinion I have come to over many years of observation in this lifestyle...and as a certified Counselor....it's an opinion that I'm qualified to have.

I'd also like to add that I think that coming into this lifestyle to "fix" your issues is an extremely unhealthy thing to do.

I am submissive....but I didn't get here through an avenue of abuse.

I think that something I notice, isnt the fact that there is more people who have suffered abuse that get involved in BDSM - its that theres a big drive on communication and people are more open to admitting that they were abused, so its more noticable. There is less judgement here on the whole, and people can understand where an abuse victim is coming from when they open up?

I don't know... I am probably wrong - but thats my experience.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 58

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 7:14:39 PM

nefertari

Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline

I think my submissive nature in relationships and, more importantly, my lack of understanding it led to my abusive relationships. Of course, there were also self-esteem issues and all that goes along with it.

I have 2 friends who are submissive who also have a history of abuse. For all three of us, it had initially been hard to accept who we really are. Our history of abuse, we thought, would make us anything but submissive.

I do not think one that has been abused is broken. I am certainly not broken. I am a much stronger person for all of my experiences.

(in reply to ownedandcollared)

Post #: 59

RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? - 9/2/2006 7:20:04 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

mistoferin, much of what you say is what I have suspected for quite awhile. I do think many people don't like to acknowledge alot of this. It kind of knocks down the illusion that we in BDSM are more enlightened than others, and some people don't like that illusion messed with. I just think that just these kind of discussions can be very helpful to anyone struggling with these questions. And for all of us for that matter.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 60

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