Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub?


i am a sub/slave and was abused in the past.
  33% (33)
i am a sub/slave that was NOT abused in the past
  51% (51)
I am an Owner who's slave/sub was abused in the past
  5% (5)
I am an Owner who's slave/sub was NOT abused in the past
  10% (10)


Total Votes : 99
(last vote on : 7/4/2010 2:51:11 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

ownedandcollared -> Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 11:48:15 AM)

i have heard conjecture that slaves and subs often come into the lifestyle because they are "broken" by past abuse and seek it out because of the control and structure, as well as the parts of it that would have been labeled as abuse at one time in her/his life. Theories that i have heard say that they do this because it gives them some kind of control and choice over a situation where they had no choice in the past.


i will admit to the structure and control part. i don't know that the second part is true.



juliaoceania -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 11:52:11 AM)

Your theory is just wrong headed and shows that you have little understanding of what makes many submissives tick, which has nothing to do with being treated poorly. My dom doesn't treat me badly ever. I do not know where people get the idea that all doms structure a submissive's life, mine doesn't. I have structured my own life for 20 years now (since  I was 18), and I will continue to do so.... He doesn't have to structure me, I am plenty disciplined on my own



ownedandcollared -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 11:54:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Your theory is just wrong headed and shows that you have little understanding of what makes many submissives tick, which has nothing to do with being treated poorly. My dom doesn't treat me badly ever. I do not know where people get the idea that all doms structure a submissive's life, mine doesn't. I have structured my own life for 20 years now (since  I was 18), and I will continue to do so.... He doesn't have to structure me, I am plenty disciplined on my own



i never said it was my theory. It was a theory that i have heard, and like all theories, it needed to be tested.

and i am self-disciplined, but not self-structured.



Estring -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 11:55:22 AM)

Well, I think it is pretty obvious that there is a high percentage of people in BDSM that have had some type of abuse in the past. I don't think it is necessarily just subs. There are probably many Doms that have some abuse in their past as well. The theories as to why they gravitate to BDSM sound plausible, but I couldn't say for sure.



Estring -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 11:57:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Your theory is just wrong headed and shows that you have little understanding of what makes many submissives tick, which has nothing to do with being treated poorly. My dom doesn't treat me badly ever. I do not know where people get the idea that all doms structure a submissive's life, mine doesn't. I have structured my own life for 20 years now (since  I was 18), and I will continue to do so.... He doesn't have to structure me, I am plenty disciplined on my own


Well, I guess you speak for everyone don't you?



krikket -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 11:59:46 AM)

i have only a short reply to this one.  It's an idea i've given a great amount of in the past, and have come to a conclusion, for myself, that works.  Yes, i was abused (not sexually, but emotionally and mentally), but it had nothing to do about my submissiveness.  If anything it made it more difficult to accept being a sub.  i learned to be a strong woman, one who can stand on my own feet and who's "there" for others.  my determination not to repeat the history with which i was raised probably got in the way, for a long time.  i like to think i've come out the other side by now...

huggles
jimmini



zumala -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:01:42 PM)

I took the word 'abused' to mean pretty serious physical injury on a regular basis.  My mother has a few anger issues to go along with some other not so pleasant mental/emotional things, but I don't know that I would say I was abused.  Maybe I didn't have the most functional family ever, but I don't think it was that bad.
 
So I'm going to say I'm a sub who hasn't been abused.
 
zuma



juliaoceania -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:01:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Your theory is just wrong headed and shows that you have little understanding of what makes many submissives tick, which has nothing to do with being treated poorly. My dom doesn't treat me badly ever. I do not know where people get the idea that all doms structure a submissive's life, mine doesn't. I have structured my own life for 20 years now (since  I was 18), and I will continue to do so.... He doesn't have to structure me, I am plenty disciplined on my own


Well, I guess you speak for everyone don't you?


Yes I speak for me, who else would I be speaking for?

Lots of vanillas have been abused too, maybe they are vanilla because they were abused?



ownedandcollared -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:03:22 PM)

there is no reason to argue or be upset.



juliaoceania -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:08:34 PM)

Im not upset, I am stating an opinion that differs from you. I have not been unreasonable, or cussed, or capped my post. I have not called a name. If you knew how many times submissives have been "told" they are submissives because we are in some way "damaged", that just isn't true of me at least. I had two parents that loved me, no abuse by either... I am not saying that some people were not abused, but many of us were not. Four out of 10 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, 3 out of 10 before the age of 18... a lot of people have been damaged this way and I do not think that this explains why we are into Ds.



ownedandcollared -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:12:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Im not upset, I am stating an opinion that differs from you. I have not been unreasonable, or cussed, or capped my post. I have not called a name. If you knew how many times submissives have been "told" they are submissives because we are in some way "damaged", that just isn't true of me at least. I had two parents that loved me, no abuse by either... I am not saying that some people were not abused, but many of us were not. Four out of 10 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, 3 out of 10 before the age of 18... a lot of people have been damaged this way and I do not think that this explains why we are into Ds.


The statistic i am familiar with from my college thesis is that one in four girls is sexually abused by 18, one in eight boys are.

i merely thought that its possible its a reason for some. i wanted to see if there was truth to this. i was abused. i know most of the reasons for choosing this path, but i will own that it is possible to be that way. it always behooves people to learn, and to be knowledgeable of different theories circulating.



mp072004 -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:17:14 PM)

I've heard that I owe my dominant and sadistic behaviors to a history of abuse, too. Abuse generally can't be the cause of both dominance and submission! Further, there are more people who have been treated badly than there are who do BDSM, and moreover, as ownedandcollared specified "slaves" and "subs," there are more abused people than there are people in BDSM who like relationships and situations where they cede control.

Now, ownedandcollared, your last sentence suggests that people do things to replay a past traumatic event, to desensitize themselves to it--to render it benign or less powerful to them. This can be useful, even cathartic. If you could nail down any particular group for it, it's probably people who do rape fantasy, and, to a lesser degree, humiliation--not power people in general.

Monica



Estring -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:19:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedandcollared

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Im not upset, I am stating an opinion that differs from you. I have not been unreasonable, or cussed, or capped my post. I have not called a name. If you knew how many times submissives have been "told" they are submissives because we are in some way "damaged", that just isn't true of me at least. I had two parents that loved me, no abuse by either... I am not saying that some people were not abused, but many of us were not. Four out of 10 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, 3 out of 10 before the age of 18... a lot of people have been damaged this way and I do not think that this explains why we are into Ds.


The statistic i am familiar with from my college thesis is that one in four girls is sexually abused by 18, one in eight boys are.

i merely thought that its possible its a reason for some. i wanted to see if there was truth to this. i was abused. i know most of the reasons for choosing this path, but i will own that it is possible to be that way. it always behooves people to learn, and to be knowledgeable of different theories circulating.


It is funny how the people who scream the loudest about tolerance, don't seem to have much of it in reality. They don't want to hear a different view. The fact that you were abused doesn't matter. If it doesn't match what they believe, it isn't valid. I appreciate your asking questions and seeking answers. I don't feel threatened by it. Keep it up.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:21:47 PM)

Reposted:

There's always the question of whether people in ds actually experience sexual abuse more than other social groups OR whether they are just more willing to talk about it as this is an alternate lifestyle social group, OR whether certain orientations somehow lead to people being vulnerable and more likely to experience abuse even at a very young age.  Until we really have a clear answer to that, we really can't discuss a correllation or causation with much certainty.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_565279/tm.htm
Ds innate or learned?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_299233/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#299318
BDSM and Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_475351/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#475351
Did childhood abuse cause you to be a dominant?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_475077/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#475077
Are you submissive because of abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_299539/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#299539
Do past issues make bdsm easier?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281017/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#281017
Going from abuse to conscious slavery?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_204258/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#204258
bdsm and abuse survivors

http://www.collarchat.com/m_124139/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#124139
sub role and abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_78189/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#78189
when I was a child...





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:23:24 PM)

PS you also only mention THREE orientation possibilities in your poll.  There is a theory that the majority of people in the scene are switches and/or tops/bottoms.  The make up of people in the scene is made up a lot more than just owners, subs and slaves.



juliaoceania -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:23:35 PM)

Please point out where I seem threatened?



juliaoceania -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:28:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Reposted:

There's always the question of whether people in ds actually experience sexual abuse more than other social groups OR whether they are just more willing to talk about it as this is an alternate lifestyle social group, OR whether certain orientations somehow lead to people being vulnerable and more likely to experience abuse even at a very young age.  Until we really have a clear answer to that, we really can't discuss a correllation or causation with much certainty.






Thanks LA for pointing that out, and the links.

There is a huge body of evidence accumulating that certain personality traits are indeed genetic, and scientists are beginning to theorize that many of our attributes are predisposed with nurture playing just one more factor. I do not see why being dominant or submissive in personality would be different than being a depressive or an optimist by nature.... but that is still not determined either





babygirl005 -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:32:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Please point out where I seem threatened?


Which thread should I start with? owned andcollared was asking a question which pertained to her experience. The fact that it doesn't match your experience doesn't make her wrongheaded or lacking understanding of a sub's experience, or mean that you can speak for all subs/slaves And since you weren't abused, she isn't speaking for you. I wasn't abused either, but I sure have seen evidence that makes me feel that there may be something to what she says. At the very least, it is an interesting topic for discussion.
Estring



juliaoceania -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:38:55 PM)

She did not state that in her opening post, so I was assuming that the "broken" thing was about submissives to the general and not a specific case... most submissives I have seen here and elsewhere do not seem "broken" to me, and in fact I think that it takes a strong person to consensually submit, not a weak one.. in my opinion it IS wrongheaded to think that being submissive=broken... I have read this assumption more than once. I did not look at the orientation of the poster before I responded, I based my reply on the information in the OP, nor did I assume it was about the OP.. it is about a "theory"..

Not long ago people into WIITWD were considered mentally deranged, deviant, and in need of psychiatric intervention. I do not like the word "broken" to describe my orientation...You may differ babygirl/estring... that is what forums are for.



ownedandcollared -> RE: Is abuse a precurser for being a slave/sub? (9/2/2006 12:43:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mp072004

I've heard that I owe my dominant and sadistic behaviors to a history of abuse, too. Abuse generally can't be the cause of both dominance and submission! Further, there are more people who have been treated badly than there are who do BDSM, and moreover, as ownedandcollared specified "slaves" and "subs," there are more abused people than there are people in BDSM who like relationships and situations where they cede control.

Now, ownedandcollared, your last sentence suggests that people do things to replay a past traumatic event, to desensitize themselves to it--to render it benign or less powerful to them. This can be useful, even cathartic. If you could nail down any particular group for it, it's probably people who do rape fantasy, and, to a lesser degree, humiliation--not power people in general.

Monica


You are absolutely right regarding dominance and abuse. i would think it would be something like a hitler complex (if you will please forgive the referance), that you "abuse" or rather control, before someone can do it to you. And you are right about the rape fantasy people--there are ALOT of people who do that. It was always something i found when i was younger. prospective Owners would ask if i had been sexually abused, and then take a keen interest in it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
PS you also only mention THREE orientation possibilities in your poll.  There is a theory that the majority of people in the scene are switches and/or tops/bottoms.  The make up of people in the scene is made up a lot more than just owners, subs and slaves.


You are right as well. i actually do not see much difference between top/bottom and Dom/sub. i was , however, taught to have something of a casual disregard of those who label themselves "switches" because they don't know themselves well enough to know who they are. i don't wish to offend, am just explaining. Now, of course, in different situations, we are different people. At work, you can be full of piss and vinegar, and at home, be prim and proper and obedient. That is the complexity of the human nature. However, in similar situations, i (and my Owner) feel that you should be decisive and know who you are.

thank you


edit was to make the quote go in the quote box



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