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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 8:57:06 PM   
Sunshine119


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Thanks for the links porcelaine!

Sunshine



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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:03:39 PM   
Emperor1956


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quote:

bluerskies:  Oh my goodness! I know this will just "smack of arrogance" and perhaps ignorance too--but maybe this explains why I'm so drawn to the Memiors of a Geisha movie-I think it's beautiful.  Can anyone suggest any links that directly speak of this kind of service?  In english would be nice as well. =o)


The movie was beautiful.  However it, and the book, had virtually nothing in common with the real story of the Geisha.  In fact, the movie was widely disdained in Japan, and even drew protests from modern working Geisha.  A well known columnist for Japan's biggest daily paper in English said: 
quote:


Arthur Golden's 1998 novel Memoirs of a Geisha revived interest in an aspect of Japan that is so intrinsic to the Western stereotype and yet so far removed from the reality of daily life here. Geisha do still exist and ply their trade, of course. But the role they play in modern society is minor and, except for the attention they get from camera-wielding tourists, largely unseen. In fact, most of the women captured on film are either maiko (apprentice geisha) or tourists themselves, done up for a few hours of faux sophistication and attention seeking. -- Noriko Akada


There is nothing wrong with not knowing.  I am offended by those who pretend to know, and don't.

E.

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"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:06:44 PM   
Lordandmaster


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I'm not going to translate them for you, but I can assure you that I can read and write Japanese.  One of the sites is called "Nyotaimori project" and it's real.

Yes, it's a fantasy, it's a Japanese fantasy, and the videos prove that some Japanese people live that fantasy.  Nyotaimori is a Japanese term.  Ito Hirobumi was thought to be a great lover of nyotaimori, and he was, obviously, Japanese.  What on earth is your point?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Now, LaM, I stand by my comments.  I said that your fantasy of eating sushi off a naked girl was virtually unknown in Japan, not entirely.  In fact, it is known as the stuff of modern yakuza legend and the fantasies of horny Americans.  You sent us all 3 websites to prove you right?  Well the first, in Spanish, has NO reference to where the video originated.  It appears to be a stroke website for adolescent boys, by the way.  I'm sure that it is entirely reliable. 

I'm working on translating the two Japanese pages to see what they say (I'm sorry my Japanese is slow.  Perhaps you'll share your translations with us?)  It is pretty clear however that you cited as "fact" a website that is basically a sex fantasy store.  You might as well cite the Weekly World News for your facts.  See the page labelled 女体盛りIt says that it is basically a collection of sex fantasies.  I'm sure tho that you know better and will illuminate that this is in fact a respected Japanese historical cultural journal.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/2/2006 9:08:25 PM >

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:07:31 PM   
Homestead


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Thank you. I still take the fantasy and try to learn more. I am only offended by those who call seekers after truth ignorant, when they know very little more themselves.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:07:40 PM   
innatedesire


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Ahhhhhhh a my favorite subject.........The Geisha..........Having been in a relationship with a Japanese man for a decade (18 yrs ago we have 3 beautiful children) I can say that there is much about the Geisha that is misunderstood. It is indeed about the Art of Service with style grace and intelligence. A geisha is a hostess and does not exchange sexual favors for money, she may have a benefactor that sees that she is always taken care of, it is not a sexual relationship in nature. They are trained from a very young age in dance, tea,  world affairs, art, and etiquette. It is not for the meek or timid and requires a desire from within to be the very best; it is a dicipline.
I have always had great resepct and admiration for the culture and religious beliefs as it is based on who you are as an individual. A culture that places so much emphasis on ritual and manners, something that seems to be lost in American society.............Something I learned and still carry with me today....style, grace, manners and showing kindness to those who do not know any better always with a  smile on your face.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:10:02 PM   
Wolfie648


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

I am interested in hearing from those that actively practice or have a desire to implement elements of the Geisha lifestyle or other facets of Asian culture in their service. In your opinion, what lessons can we learn that may be of benefit for those that are service oriented submissives? Please feel free to share your experiences, training, and ideas. Responses are most welcome from dominant and submissive persons. Thank you.

porcelaine


I always like it when they do what they are told. Regardless of what society says. Works for me, maybe I am strange? Whoo.

Specifics? That depends on who is demanding. At least to me.

D (owner of j).



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Possibly.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:11:23 PM   
Homestead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: innatedesire

Ahhhhhhh a my favorite subject.........The Geisha..........Having been in a relationship with a Japanese man for a decade (18 yrs ago we have 3 beautiful children) I can say that there is much about the Geisha that is misunderstood. It is indeed about the Art of Service with style grace and intelligence. A geisha is a hostess and does not exchange sexual favors for money, she may have a benefactor that sees that she is always taken care of, it is not a sexual relationship in nature. They are trained from a very young age in dance, tea,  world affairs, art, and etiquette. It is not for the meek or timid and requires a desire from within to be the very best; it is a dicipline.
I have always had great resepct and admiration for the culture and religious beliefs as it is based on who you are as an individual. A culture that places so much emphasis on ritual and manners, something that seems to be lost in American society.............Something I learned and still carry with me today....style, grace, manners and showing kindness to those who do not know any better always with a  smile on your face.



The iron behind the manners is what impresses me the most.   It's far too rare in western society these days. That tends to be masks, laid over a sack of manure- by comparison.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:12:45 PM   
knothere


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My feeling is that anytime anyone wishes to add artistic beauty to the world, they should be nurtured, not crushed. An 'influence" with the understanding that one emulates, not duplicates, can still be a lovely thing when the person involved makes it there own.
If this is too abstract a post, you may email me for further arty drivel. Its what I do.Of course, you ,the reader may simply ignore me as well.Please do as suits you.This site remains independant,yes?

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:17:16 PM   
Homestead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: knothere

My feeling is that anytime anyone wishes to add artistic beauty to the world, they should be nurtured, not crushed. An 'influence" with the understanding that one emulates, not duplicates, can still be a lovely thing when the person involved makes it there own.
If this is too abstract a post, you may email me for further arty drivel. Its what I do.Of course, you ,the reader may simply ignore me as well.Please do as suits you.This site remains independant,yes?


I think I will take you up on that.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:24:30 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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While I am far too American to really hope to do anything but gawk at the geisha sort of culture, I do envy it's grace and subtlety above all.  Interestingly enough my partners and I finally watched "Memoirs" tonight (after having the DVD since Feb) and it was quite amusing on my part to watch my male partners faces so quizzical during all of the female interludes and subtle infighting.  I had to help them along the story many times, and they usually are fine with complex plots.

Men who think women are all grace and gentility and the "weaker sex" are so well fooled.  I think geisha is an amazing example of this.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:26:55 PM   
Homestead


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I think of women as cats. A sleek and graceful exterior.........

Hiding many small razors.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:29:11 PM   
innatedesire


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It does make finding a Dom/Master more difficult as not everyone can understand or appreciate the effort and desire in presentation of not only myself but in all that I do. I put a great deal of effort (I am not saying others do not) in being a educated, articulate, intelligent and  devoted person as I feel it reflects on my Dom/Master and I wish for him to be proud and pleased, I can see it in his eyes and that is all I need.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:31:29 PM   
Homestead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: innatedesire

It does make finding a Dom/Master more difficult as not everyone can understand or appreciate the effort and desire in presentation of not only myself but in all that I do. I put a great deal of effort (I am not saying others do not) in being a educated, articulate, intelligent and  devoted person as I feel it reflects on my Dom/Master and I wish for him to be proud and pleased, I can see it in his eyes and that is all I need.


People these days do not understand "face". It's rather sad.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:36:07 PM   
porcelaine


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With all the positive responses I've read, in particular those from submissives and slaves. I'm left to wonder if the traits we find most appealing in this culture are simply not being encouraged in our personal relations. Although few if any of us were raised in this way, it does not prevent a submissive from obtaining a suitable level of skill and expertise in her own practices. Perhaps we have neglected to recognize the treasures we have sitting quietly in our own back yard.

porcelaine

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:43:24 PM   
Homestead


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I have known this for many years. I get called elitist for suggesting things like this.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:45:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
With all the positive responses I've read, in particular those from submissives and slaves. I'm left to wonder if the traits we find most appealing in this culture are simply not being encouraged in our personal relations. Although few if any of us were raised in this way, it does not prevent a submissive from obtaining a suitable level of skill and expertise in her own practices. Perhaps we have neglected to recognize the treasures we have sitting quietly in our own back yard.

porcelaine

Not sure, there's so many in everyday life now who are proud to be bitches and brats that I think they prefer as they are. 

One way isn't better than another necessarily- I'm more practical.  If it gets you to where you want and are fulfilled, then go for it.

It is a bit of overromanticism, and a bit of hubris to think we could REALLY enter into that mindset and way of life- training begins so young and so completely takes over the persons life. 

I understand my limits as an American and raised in the culture that I was, and I'm sure some geisha out there would say she really admires some of my talents and habits and that perhaps their own culture has some lacking. 

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:46:47 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

In fact, the movie was widely disdained in Japan, and even drew protests from modern working Geisha. 

It was my understanding due to the hoards of movie articles that came out at the time of its release, that the movie was widely protested in Japan for being cast with Chinese actresses, rather than Japanese. 

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:47:33 PM   
Homestead


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I think there is value in trying to at least assimilate SOME of it.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:48:57 PM   
Homestead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

In fact, the movie was widely disdained in Japan, and even drew protests from modern working Geisha. 

It was my understanding due to the hoards of movie articles that came out at the time of its release, that the movie was widely protested in Japan for being cast with Chinese actresses, rather than Japanese. 


Ahh, so THAT is what the flap was about.

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RE: Geisha and Asian Culture - 9/2/2006 9:52:40 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Yes, wasn't it the same actress who was in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (or whatever that movie was called)?

Edited to add: Yes, Zhang Ziyi.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

It was my understanding due to the hoards of movie articles that came out at the time of its release, that the movie was widely protested in Japan for being cast with Chinese actresses, rather than Japanese. 


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/2/2006 9:53:32 PM >

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