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ORIGINAL: Homestead

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

In fact, the movie was widely disdained in Japan, and even drew protests from modern working Geisha. 

It was my understanding due to the hoards of movie articles that came out at the time of its release, that the movie was widely protested in Japan for being cast with Chinese actresses, rather than Japanese. 

Ahh, so THAT is what the flap was about.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Homestead

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

In fact, the movie was widely disdained in Japan, and even drew protests from modern working Geisha. 

It was my understanding due to the hoards of movie articles that came out at the time of its release, that the movie was widely protested in Japan for being cast with Chinese actresses, rather than Japanese. 

Ahh, so THAT is what the flap was about.

Yes, two Chinese and one Malaysian, rather than three Japanese.  There were some other mentions of the dress not being precisely accurate as well.  Another protest, not making such news as the casting, was that the movie was filmed in California, rather than Kyoto.
Taken from an articla from Pravda:
"Famous Chinese director Chen Kaige (Farewell My Concubine) said: “Chinese women cannot play geishas. This is an ancient tradition of the Japanese culture. The way they walk, hold the fan, smile, look at other people…In order to make these gestures and face expressions look right you have to grow up in Japan. But probably American producers do not care”.
To read the full article:  http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/361/16772_film.html

China banned the film entirely, their official reasons not clearly stated, however most speculation agreed it was also due to the casting.  Their reasons were said to be political in nature, due to China still wanting an apology from Japan for WWII activities.

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ORIGINAL: Homestead
Hmm, I never realized it had so much controvery attached to it. Now I find myself wishing they would do a real japanese version of it.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
It is one thing to exercise a desire to learn about a culture, particularly if the "student" of that culture respects it.  It's another to read a few articles, watch a few movies, and call yourself a practitioner of such a culture.  I think that's what throws people off sometimes.  Perhaps people within those cultures are so accustomed to feeling "cheapened," they have their guard up.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

It is possible, porcelaine, but I think so often Americans (and maybe other cultures, too) cheapen it.  Yoga is a wonderful meditational tool, with roots that stretch back to the early days of India.  Yet it began to become a fad here - didn't you see the ads for "baby yoga?" and "yoga at your desk?"  etc.?  Not to say those aren't good things, but in the eyes of those who take Yoga quite seriously, it may seem disrespectful.

I will use a personal example.  My mother, from Spain, was a professional Flamenco dancer.  She studied with the best of them: Manolo Caracol.  She danced in the elite theaters, and in movies.  It is a beautiful art form, to witness the "real deal."  She came to this country and here's this twit named Charo on TV, yicking it up like a cowboy.  It disgusted her.  It disgusts me, too.  I continue to roll my eyes when people talk about "flamingo" dancers as though they're a mere form of amusement.

It is one thing to exercise a desire to learn about a culture, particularly if the "student" of that culture respects it.  It's another to read a few articles, watch a few movies, and call yourself a practitioner of such a culture.  I think that's what throws people off sometimes.  Perhaps people within those cultures are so accustomed to feeling "cheapened," they have their guard up.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

It is one thing to exercise a desire to learn about a culture, particularly if the "student" of that culture respects it.  It's another to read a few articles, watch a few movies, and call yourself a practitioner of such a culture.  I think that's what throws people off sometimes.  Perhaps people within those cultures are so accustomed to feeling "cheapened," they have their guard up.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine
Here's another thought. I'm sure you may have found Charo demeaning and most unsettling as she wiggled about on the screen. But I'm left to wonder how many people gained an appreciation for or some measure of interest in the Latin culture based upon her character on television.

porcelaine

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I know what you're saying, but the only person in this whole thread who objected is not a member the culture in question; he's a white American who professes to be profoundly interested in Japanese culture.  OK, I won't question the profundity or sincerity of his interest, but he hardly speaks for the more than 100 million Japanese people in the world--and the fact that he has already said some breathtakingly incorrect things about Japanese culture (that it's 5,000 years old and that nyotaimori isn't a genuine Japanese fetish, to name just two things I can remember) makes me wonder how qualified he is to criticize.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Not to hijack your thread, but a) Spain is in Europe, not Latin America.  b) She is not representative in the least of what Flamenco really is, despite Guitar Player Magazine ignorantly naming her "Best Flamenco Guitarist."  Apparently they've never heard of a guy named Paco De Lucia...or Paco Pena....or Manitas de Playa...or.... :)

You get the idea.

"Cuchi Cuchi" is not representative of Flamenco, and would churn anyone's stomach who understood and valued the deep roots of Flamenco and the passion expressed in it.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Not to hijack your thread, but a) Spain is in Europe, not Latin America.  b) She is not representative in the least of what Flamenco really is, despite Guitar Player Magazine ignorantly naming her "Best Flamenco Guitarist."  Apparently they've never heard of a guy named Paco De Lucia...or Paco Pena....or Manitas de Playa...or.... :)

You get the idea.

"Cuchi Cuchi" is not representative of Flamenco, and would churn anyone's stomach who understood and valued the deep roots of Flamenco and the passion expressed in it.

Yes I do understand what you're saying and I know where it is. But if you recall the time when she entered the public eye people held different perceptions during those days. It can be a strange thing to consider. For many, the images and personalities that may be considered somewhat disparaging to the cultures they represent are the first introduction others may have to the said group. For some, it is the beginning of their own personal study for and appreciation of a world outside of theirs. No one wishes to see their culture presented in a negative light. However, education happens under the oddest guises. You take the people where they are and go from there.

porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: TyWolfe

I would recommend reading the book Geisha by Lisa Dalby, the only American that has been allowed entry into the world of the Geisha. This was back in the 80s. It gives an accounting of her time within their world as well as a detailed history.

Beauty, grace, respect, and art. Geisha truly are artists and entertainers. They are not submissive as most are lead to believe.

As someone said early on in the thread, basically you would need to focus on the things that it seems are slowly disappearing from the Community at large.

The Urasenke Foundation in Washington, D.C. does a tea ceremony class (which is on my list of things to do), and I know they have different branches all over - http://www.urasenke.org.

Some of my favorite sites are:

Immortal Geisha - www.immortalgeisha.com - check her resources page, there are a lot of resources there.

Kayukai - http://www.sofieloafy.net/geishamain.htm

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I so wish that were true.  Unfortunately I grew up surrounded by unknowing good intentioned folks saying "Ohhh flamingo....like that coochi coochi lady??"  It became a little frustrating lol.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I so wish that were true.  Unfortunately I grew up surrounded by unknowing good intentioned folks saying "Ohhh flamingo....like that coochi coochi lady??"  It became a little frustrating lol.

Does this mean that I get flamenco lessons and other authentic experiences? I'll bring the sangria if you'd like. *sweet smile*

porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: mons

greetings to all
 
to many of you the word geisha may bring to mind submission, this is so far from the truth. my twin has study the geisha for more then twenty years this started as a young girl up until now. we both have learn that it is not sexual or submission it is an art from and dance a tradtion of learning to control one own self if anything a gesiha is more like a domme she is in control without the male knowing she is strong much stronger then many males think of her to be. her ways of giving you a good time is not what you may think and many of you could not afford a true geisha at all. they wear clothes that are worth more then some make in 5 years i may go over board but this is true and to think of them as slaves or submissive is so wrong, they are the one woman i can think fo who hearts are close to others no they do not share many things secret go to the grave for many of the true ones . the ones who you can buy are whores or pros they are not the one who one the weathly japesne business man can go to not the office worker but the owner of the company and he is the one who owns it world wide no she is something you may never even breathe on for she is hidden in kobo a famous geisha city where they train/. so for all of the " i love the way the are submissive " is a dream they are as many submissive are some of the wisest woman in the world as well as they do have the strenght of the dommes too.
so no they are not submissive , not shy this is a learning for them , no they are not whores it is an art and i knew this beofore the book came out
 
mons