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RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 6:41:08 AM

sapphirepleasure

Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

Maybe I'm just missing who the mysterious "he" is. Why does it freaking matter what other people think? Last time I checked it was your life? You have to be happy with your decisions.

Well see, that's the thing. "He" is the one who has taught me more about the lifestyle than anyone else and 'invested' a lot of time into me because he really sees me as someone who is a slave at heart. I've always trusted him and continued to go for him for advice, but it stands to reason that I still have to make my own decisions and be okay with them, and not second-guess myself.

I agree with what everyone's saying about just living my life and being happy and seeing where things lead. In time, it will become apparent if we are just great friends who hang out and have a lot of fun (which is what I suspect, but hey, that's a great thing), or something more. I wouldn't have been being true to myself if I'd limited myself artificially and refused to 'engage' at any level with someone who was not a self-pronounced kinkster (as if we are a different species, as someone pointed out) than doing as I did and just going with the flow and really being in the moment.

As a sub/slave, sometimes it's difficult to sort out a good decision when I am getting advice from a dominant whose ideas differ from mine, you know? Especially someone with so much more experience in the lifestyle than I have. Even though I am unowned, (and maybe *especially* since I am), I find that I seek guidance from those I trust, but ultimately, at this point in my life, it is still I who must make the decisions.

sp

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 61

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 6:45:15 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Vanilla dating a sin?

Why yes, Virginia it is-- A sinfully delicious little slice of life.

Go ye therefore; and sin some more.

Vanilla Mocha Chocolata Ya Ya Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/4/2006 6:46:02 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 62

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 10:27:05 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
As a sub/slave, sometimes it's difficult to sort out a good decision when I am getting advice from a dominant whose ideas differ from mine, you know? Especially someone with so much more experience in the lifestyle than I have. Even though I am unowned, (and maybe *especially* since I am), I find that I seek guidance from those I trust, but ultimately, at this point in my life, it is still I who must make the decisions.

sp

I understand that sometimes it can be hard to listen objectively and try and make the best choices for yourself- but I don't think it has anything to do with you being a sub/slave and him being a dom.

_____________________________

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(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 63

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 10:29:34 AM

Lordandmaster

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Joined: 6/22/2004
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My comment is that a vanilla date is not a sin (just asking the question in those terms shows how defensive you are about this), but that you're not being honest TO YOURSELF OR TO HIM if you go out on vanilla dates with men without explaining to them that you're not vanilla.

If you think you can be happy with a vanilla lover, then so be it. If not, you're just causing trouble for yourself down the road--not to mention the trouble you're causing for an innocent vanilla by not being honest with him about your emotional and sexual needs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Comments?

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/4/2006 10:30:21 AM >

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 64

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 1:10:44 PM

theRose4U

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Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

you're not being honest TO YOURSELF OR TO HIM if you go out on vanilla dates with men without explaining to them that you're not vanilla.

I have to take issue with this one. Every woman in your life that you've encountered have you told them "Hey I'd really love to tie you up?" Especially in the get to know you phase?
I would say probably not. Women are able to function on many different levels in a variety of relationships. If she feels that this nilla could go the distance, especially into a sexual realm then yes there is a disclosure rule. I don't believe that there is any disservice in going out with "someone nice" specifically for that reason.
Personally I would have missed out on 5 subs, 3 of which were my best, by NOT going out with a nilla. It was only after a trust level had been built that we had "the talk". It was kind of funny because one was so sure that he was going to get dumped that when I looked at him to reply he was starting to get up and put on his coat. I looked at him and said "boy where do you think you're going?" He stops for a minute, in a firmer voice I say "bitch I'm not done with you yet". He turns around and is white as a sheet and bursts into tears (this was a very high ranking executive for a fortune 500) "You mean you're...a...oh my god" he falls to the floor in tears and starts trying to kiss my feet. My floors were never cleaner.
Those that are observent find partners in all kinds of places. I think that it is a falacy that there is any "duty" to disclose early on. Getting to know someone, to me, is the same whether it's nilla or not. Finding out if you're romantically and sexually compatible in a lot of ways is the same. Before you take those kinds of steps I think it is important to disclose because yes there are needs that may raise their ugly head if you continue a relationship, the reality though is that this is no different than an unmentionable, medical condition or any other "I like you BUT you need to know ____".

< Message edited by theRose4U -- 9/4/2006 1:20:29 PM >

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
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(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 65

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 1:16:45 PM

theRose4U

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quote:

Well see, that's the thing. "He" is the one who has taught me more about the lifestyle than anyone else and 'invested' a lot of time into me because he really sees me as someone who is a slave at heart.

Then I would suggest that he probably has an agenda with that statement. He's "invested in you" not for you but what he hopes to get when like too many newbies you fall for your mentor.
If it were any other Dom that walked up to you and said "either you do x or I'll never speak to you again" you'd probably tell him to piss off.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 66

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 1:19:15 PM

Slipstreme

Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
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quote:

When I messaged my closest friend in the lifestyle about my date, that it was vanilla but that we had a lot in common, his response was, 'Does that make it okay?'

Date whoever the hell you want to date. When you want to date them and why you want to date them. It doesn't matter their orientation, whether they are vanilla or not.

Just remember though, if he is vanilla and you end up having insatiable desires for D/s or S&M, unless he is open to poly and you can get it elsewhere, he might never want to satisfy them.

_____________________________

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(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 67

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 1:25:58 PM

SexyRed

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I think you need to connect with someone on a vanilla level first, before BDSM.

However....I have found that only connecting on the D/s level can make for a disappointing relationship and I have found that connecting on a vanilla level then realizing there was no chemistry or interest in BDSM, is equally frustrating.

There is no wrong or right about dating vanilla, it is simply a matter of expectations combined with the need to express who and what you are and what you want.

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A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!

(in reply to Slipstreme)

Post #: 68

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 4:28:49 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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I'm in a 24/7 D/s relationship and we have vanilla times. Let me assure you, that if we're in Home Depot looking for parts to fix a toilet, I'm not following him around on my knees.

Besides you keeping up all your interests is important for you, for your health and happiness. And who is to say that this nice, funny vanilla guy isn't a sadist in the bedroom?

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 69

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 5:17:13 PM

sapphirepleasure

Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline

Actually, the way I phrased the question was an attempt to be a bit provocative and humorous. It wasn't a religious question, because I'm not particularly religious (though I am spiritual).

I agree that it wouldn't be wise to get involved with someone without being open about my needs, but I don't know that that has to happen on the first date when you're just getting to know each other.

If he's not dominant (and at this point he hasn't given any indication that he is), he'll probably turn out to be a good friend with whom I have a lot in common and enjoy spending time with.

My intent is not to hide who I am indefinitely, but just figure out how to live in the 'real world' as I integrate my desire for deeper experiences in the lifestyle.

sp

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 70

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 6:39:18 PM

sophia37

Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
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let go the labels and just Be.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 71

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 9/4/2006 9:25:28 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I don't go on dates with vanilla women, and if I did, I wouldn't let them think I was vanilla too. So yes, if I "encounter" any woman that I'd consider a relationship with, she'll know what to expect before there are any dates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

quote:

you're not being honest TO YOURSELF OR TO HIM if you go out on vanilla dates with men without explaining to them that you're not vanilla.

I have to take issue with this one. Every woman in your life that you've encountered have you told them "Hey I'd really love to tie you up?" Especially in the get to know you phase?

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 72

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 4:43:30 AM

pinkieplum

Posts: 84
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Last night I accepted a date with a (as far as I know at this point) vanilla guy and had a marvelous time. He's a comedy writer in the film industry (I also have a background in the industry) and we both recently relocated to this area. We had great conversation while listening to a nice jazz combo and then strolled around downtown. It ended with a hug and an agreement to 'hang out again soon'.

When I messaged my closest friend in the lifestyle about my date, that it was vanilla but that we had a lot in common, his response was, 'Does that make it okay?'

I mean, I don't feel like I betrayed myself by going out with someone and having a great time, even if he didn't make me strip and suck him within minutes of meeting as so many doms I've met have demanded. Aside from three really great months of training, it's not like I've had great success integrating D/s (or M/s) into my life. There was the master who collared me and then changed his mind 4 days later, the bedroom dom who has a girlfriend, the one who borrowed $200 and has yet to pay it back weeks after he promised to, and various other encounters I don't wish to repeat.

I don't think I'm 'throwing in the towel', but in the meantime it's nice to have a decent date.

(I was advised not to post this because I would be eaten alive for not knowing whether I am 'in or out' of the lifestyle, but I am just being honest here and this is certainly not an easy place to be in.)

Comments?

i'm not sure. i find myself in a position similar to yours. i like a 'vanilla' guy i met elsewhere (of course) and we're trying to make plans to meet soon (i haven't felt up to it before now).

Part of me says NO, this cannot lead anywhere. He's read my erotic stories -- at least some of them -- and He knew before He ever contacted me that i was a submissive (well, okay, only if He read my profile). We haven't spoken openly about D/s but i get the impression that He thinks all He'd need to do is learn to tie me up and i'd be happy.

Part of me says YES, He's interesting and attentive and local; why the hell not?

In the past, when i've done something because i couldn't come up with a good reason NOT to do it, i haven't usually been happy with the results.

(Seemed better to bump this thread than repeat the topic.)

Insights? Input?

pinkieplum

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 73

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 4:47:23 AM

Racquelle

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline

How else can we recruit new perverts if some of us don't venture out and date the straight laced?

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 74

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 4:58:42 AM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

I don't know too many people who can live "in the Lifestyle" 24/7.. most have normal vanilla parts in their lives ...like children to raise..jobs to go to..shopping to do etc.... even D/s couples will mix it up by having vanilla sex form time to time so why should vanilla dating be any different?

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Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

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Post #: 75

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 5:37:30 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I don't go on dates with vanilla women, and if I did, I wouldn't let them think I was vanilla too. So yes, if I "encounter" any woman that I'd consider a relationship with, she'll know what to expect before there are any dates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

quote:

you're not being honest TO YOURSELF OR TO HIM if you go out on vanilla dates with men without explaining to them that you're not vanilla.

I have to take issue with this one. Every woman in your life that you've encountered have you told them "Hey I'd really love to tie you up?" Especially in the get to know you phase?

i really want to know how that conversation goes in light of the fact that you havent been out on a date yet? How does the subject arise and how do you phrase things to her in that circumstance?

_____________________________

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And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

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Post #: 76

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 5:41:47 AM

MasterHermes

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/23/2008
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How did you end up resuscitating a thread from two years ago? I wonder what happened to OP and her write date and her friend in last two years.

Hermes

P.s: Yes bumping an old thread instead of starting a new one may seem like a neat idea, but what happens is when people dont realize this is an old thread they are asking questions to and answering some of the conversation that took place long ago.

< Message edited by MasterHermes -- 6/22/2008 5:45:51 AM >

(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 77

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 6:14:39 AM

DominantJenny

Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Thank you, dark. I think that's exactly why it was so refreshing. Since I've been into 'the lifestyle', it's been an all-consuming focus to me, and I've let a lot of my other interests (like film and music) fall by the wayside. Maybe that's why I felt so alive last night. I can imagine being open with him about my 'proclivities' in time, but there was no reason to last night, it didn't come up really, and so I just enjoyed myself and it's all good.

Thanks again,
sp

The only reason I'd have a problem with a vanilla date is that I'm very hard-core kinked, and I would feel bad for "leading someone on"...letting them think we could make that connection and then, at some point, smacking them upside the head with something that shocks the socks off a lot of vanillas and makes a relationship fundamentally undoable with them in most cases. Kinda like going out with a devout Christian and not mentioning that I'm a hard-core atheist, y'know?
Now, I married a vanilla guy, because at the time I wasn't out, didn't know I COULD be out, and came out, and got VERY lucky that it worked out, but I would never get into a vanilla relationship again. I don't want to break hearts...mine or anyone else's.
Assuming none of that is at issue, go for it.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

Post #: 78

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 7:03:40 AM

leadership527

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DRATS... didn't see that this was a necro-thread... response deleted.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 6/22/2008 7:05:24 AM >

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Post #: 79

RE: Is a Vanilla Date a Sin? - 6/22/2008 7:13:57 AM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkieplum

i'm not sure. i find myself in a position similar to yours. i like a 'vanilla' guy i met elsewhere (of course) and we're trying to make plans to meet soon (i haven't felt up to it before now).

Part of me says NO, this cannot lead anywhere. He's read my erotic stories -- at least some of them -- and He knew before He ever contacted me that i was a submissive (well, okay, only if He read my profile). We haven't spoken openly about D/s but i get the impression that He thinks all He'd need to do is learn to tie me up and i'd be happy...........

(Seemed better to bump this thread than repeat the topic.)

Replying to your question a comment and then a question of my own..... 2 days ago I read your thread about the perils of dating doms you mention your confusion regarding a person you were in contact with, now you mention someone else you are planning to meet (after yet again not feeling ready till now)....you now make this comment "We haven't spoken openly about D/s but i get the impression that He thinks all He'd need to do is learn to tie me up and i'd be happy. " ...you haven't talked openly and you are making assumptions about his thoughts..... why?

Do you really feel you are ready to meet people....both online and in real life pinkie? I can see another thread soon about your shock that this date didn't work out. I am struggling to understand why you are spending so much time online posting about everything in your life (and it does seem very drama laden) instead of turning off the computer, taking some time to look inwards and then coming back here and talking to others from a position of empowerment and self knowledge.

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(in reply to pinkieplum)

Post #: 80

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