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RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:12:24 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
mistoferin: Well, those dirty truths so far don't even include anyone's first name, so it's sure not gonna make me cringe a lot. I think she's venting which can be good for people. I want to know why some are always so willing to jump in someone who is hurting. Why not just say nothing? Or at least - ask for the facts. I keep hearing: "It souunds like she..." if people really want to know more, they can ask her -  she is right here. Then they can proceed with the jumping and unhelpful "you should have known better" talk, hehe.


Susan, if you wish to view me as a cold and heartless bitch...please feel free. I will let you go on kissing all the boo boos. And I won't condescend to you for it...so please give me the same respect. I have my own way of reasoning things...just as you. I, personally feel that sometimes a bitch slap is more helpful than a hug...they are certainly more memorable...and there is never a short supply of those who wish to coddle instead. I like to make people take a harsh look at their own responsibility for their behaviors. This woman is 33 years old...not a child...and she should know by now that there will be men in ALL walks of life who will string you along to get what they want.


For the sake of argument, I agree with both of you.  I'm not for kicking one while they're down, but I don't believe coddling will fix anything, either.  Sometimes a "slap in the face", so to speak, is more beneficial than a hug, but it should be done with compassion or it's not beneficial at all.

I, for one,  hope this post will serve to help newbies who rush into things.  I have a friend in the lifestyle who is jumping in blindfolded and headfirst.  Another friend in the lifestyle and I have both tried to talk to her, reason with her, ask that she slow down and take the time to learn (especially when she couldn't tell the difference between abuse and D/s...omg), but she, at 35, is going to do what she is going to do.  I am almost certain it is going to blow up in her face.  As her friend, I can only stand by and watch and be there for her when/if it falls apart.  I'm not going to coddle her, but I'm also not going to abandon her in her time of need and say, "I told you so." 

I guess we all have experiences in life that make us jaded.  Not everyone has had those experiences, though, and a lot have to learn the hard way....or so I've noticed.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:13:03 PM   
Bluebird


Posts: 384
Joined: 2/17/2006
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Guys - no need for a pissing war.  It's fairly simple - she didn't understand what he meant by "Trainer" - and yes, she should have read up on the topic, and yes, he should have explained further.  Her heart is broken, but like all hearts, it will heal, and she will proceed with life. 
 
DefiantBadGirl - don't beat yourself up, it was a *harsh* learning experience.  Go slow; you will meet the right person for you. 

_____________________________

Love is patient, love is kind. I am neither. Get over it.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:13:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		What is this, National Blame Evil Doms Day?  You've posted over and over about how big bad male doms take advantage of innocent little subbie females, and what I never see you doing is asking yourself what exactly the dom did wrong.

Take your situation.  He was free to dump you whenever he felt like it.  You were free to dump him whenever you felt like it.  Maybe you didn't know what the term "trainer" meant, but did he EVER promise you more than he delivered?  Not according to your story.  According to your story, his one grave mistake was not to reciprocate your love and spend Valentine's Day with you.

You seem to assume that he was obliged to stay with you just because you fell in love with him.  It doesn't work that way, sweetheart.  I don't foresee happier relationships in your future, either, because you still don't seem to understand what went wrong with the last one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Trainers and those who are "married, but looking" have something in common. Both are emotionally unavailable and both search for partners to use on a short term basis. I used to think a trainer was someone who preferred an inexperiencd partner because they could train without having to untrain. I'm going to tell my own experience to better explain. I joined this sight as a newby. When the guy I became involved with told me he was a trainer, I thought I had found the perfect situation. I didn't know what the title "trainer " in the bdsm world meant. I really cared for this man and was very good to him. In return, he ignored me on Valentine's Day, stood me up on my birthday, refused to ever take me on a date, and constantly cancelled planned sessions because something suddenly came up. As a newby, I thought I was doing something wrong or not learning fast enough and doubled my efforts. In the end, he dumped me when I did nothing whatsoever to deserve it. Trainers only want short term and no amount of effort on the trainees part will convince them otherwise. If I had known what a trainer was to begin with, it would have saved me a lot of heartache. There are plenty of doms and switches out there not seeking a short term fling who are willing to train someone with little or no experience. I hope this warning will prevent someone else from being hurt. 

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:13:18 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

I agree that people should be responsible for their actions.  The OP is clearly naive and had hidden expectations for the relationship.
I think this is the hinge of it- in her OP as well as her continuing posts, the OP makes NO suggestion or hint of taking any personal accoutability or attempts to learn from her past issues.  In fact we know she's made several threads before about problems with past relationships, and playing games- then begin upset when the games really don't work out.

If there were any sense of actual responsibility being taken RATHER than just "This guy sucks and people should know that all trainers suck because I got hurt" I think we'd be approaching this quite differently.


The denial and lack of accountability is what made me slap her so hard. I would have been kinder if she had admitted to an error or two. As it was, it followed a familiar and nauseating pattern, and I wasn't going to be bullshitted over it.

I actually feel bad about having been taken in an offering and apology now. I take it back, it wasn't deserved.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:18:41 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I'm well aware that I'm harsh Susan. The reason I am is because I can not think of even one time when I or anyone else I have ever heard of has been helped by sympathy or pity. I am grateful for those who were strong enough to get in my face and be frank...and yes harsh...with me. It may have pissed me off royally at the time but you can bet it was something I tossed around in my head for a long time after and learned lessons from. That doesn't mean I am heartless and you and everyone else here has witnessed the fact that I can and do have empathy for people. But as LA said....not once has this woman accepted any responsibility for her part in this. When two people interact for the period of time that has been referenced here...there is responsibility on the shoulders of both involved parties.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:22:15 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		I am sorry for your pain defiantbadgirl, getting one's heart involved where feelings are not reciprocated is never a good place to be.  As they say time heals all wounds.  Learn from the experience, try not to stay focused on the negatives and focus on the things that were positive. Move on to more productive experiences. 

You made an good point in saying trainers and married men both look not to get emotionally involved with the ones they "train". That is there perogative as much as it is a subs perogative to say no thanks i want someone who can invest more in me emotionally and long term.  The very nature of what a trainer is would tell most familiar with the term he wasn't going to be getting emitionally invilved with you from day one.  Did he lie to you and lead you to believe more? If he did thats very unfortunate and sad. No one should be lied to.

i think a good rule of thumb to follow is when in any relationship vanilla/trainor/D/s/M/s etc of the sub/slaves gives any type of service or performs any type of tasks you really can't do them in the spirit of gaining anything in return. If it comes it comes.  If you do you only set yourself up to be sorely disappointed. Being recognized on Valentines day should really have no bearing on what service you provided. Thats how i see it anyway.  It does appear you had vanilla expectations of him, more so then D/s ones. Perhaps more reflections on what your expectations are and what you are really looking for are in order.  After all we are all here to have our needs met - dom sub slave alike.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:23:19 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		Perhaps susan should look back over what "being nice" cost her, for some fifteen years. Didn't it finally take DEATH to remove you from that situation? Or would you still be there with HIM?

And think about why so many of us are harsher. Because it WORKS.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:25:35 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Homestead: Taking back an apology? Oh no. I'm sure after reading your posts she was counting on all of the wam fuzzy feeling she could have garnered from it, too.

Nefertari: I have a friend like you described. I know it can get tiresome when people don't listen and one knows them well enough to advise them. I agree some people are older and maybe could think things through before they leap. I am glad you are a bit sympathetic.

What I sometimes don't see folks do around here is ask people more questions that would be logical to ask, if they are really intending to be helpful , before jumping to conclusions. I see it sometimes, but not in this case. I decided it's because maybe they are 1) worn out with seeing people in he same situations over and over (but that still doesn't make it the fault of the "new one with the old problem" and 2) It's too much work or 3) They just dont find it necessary or don't think it "works".

I sometimes think it is too much work. In which case, I usually just say "sorry that happened", and move on. Or give practical advice if I am qualified, like Crappy Dom did. But - we all have our own way, I know. Maybe she learned something. Maybe not. But - I really am mystified at the idea that a "you should have known better" is even remotely considered "helpful", as commentary. I guess that depends on whether or not one thinks history can be re-written. 

Bluebird's post was right on, I think. I thought that her reply summed things up well.


- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/3/2006 11:45:46 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:25:52 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		So as long as I make sure I pick needy and naive women, I can do anything I want to them as long as I tell them up front and you guys will all back me?

Remember, I am the guy who has talked women into meeting me naked, blindfolded, on their knees with their mouths open so if you guys give me an okay on REALLY letting go, I am seriously going to go to town.

I wonder what the record is?  What is the quickest someone has talked someone into getting branded?  As long as I tell them up front what is going on, its all cool right?  No matter how fucking naive, insecure, or needy they are right? 

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:26:01 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
And think about why so many of us are harsher. Because it WORKS.

No, it doesn't- not online anyway, and hardly ever offline either.

I just don't have the patience nor the inclination to pander or allow illusions to spread. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:27:13 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
And think about why so many of us are harsher. Because it WORKS.

No, it doesn't- not online anyway, and hardly ever offline either.

I just don't have the patience nor the inclination to pander or allow illusions to spread. 


And that gets judged by bleeding hearts as harsh.

I rest my case.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:33:53 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

So as long as I make sure I pick needy and naive women, I can do anything I want to them as long as I tell them up front and you guys will all back me?

Remember, I am the guy who has talked women into meeting me naked, blindfolded, on their knees with their mouths open so if you guys give me an okay on REALLY letting go, I am seriously going to go to town.

I wonder what the record is?  What is the quickest someone has talked someone into getting branded?  As long as I tell them up front what is going on, its all cool right?  No matter how fucking naive, insecure, or needy they are right? 


Was this to me? I'm not sure where you might have gotten the impression that I thought that anything this "Trainer" did was all right.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:33:55 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Perhaps susan should look back over what "being nice" cost her, for some fifteen years. Didn't it finally take DEATH to remove you from that situation? Or would you still be there with HIM?

And think about why so many of us are harsher. Because it WORKS.


It's just nasty to take personal information you obtained from other threads about people to try to make a point in another thread when your in a snit about somthing they may have challenged you on, and in a respectful and thoughtful way i might add. Susan of all people doesn't deserve your mean spirited assault on her past. i am disappointed you used this tactic. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:35:12 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		CrappyDom: No, of course it's wrong. Is it gonna get anybody arrested? Hard to say. Is it stupid? - an argument could be made in that direction, I think. Is anybody going to stop him? No. Can he stop himself? Apparently not. Any Dominant I'd respect would take the state of the submissive into consideration. If he can't "assess it" he shouldn't be offerring to "train" anyone. According to the OP, this guy obviously didn't consider it. Thanks for mentioning there are two accountable people here, not just one.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/4/2006 12:05:10 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:35:24 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Homestead, "harshness" doesn't work.
Nor does being mean.
You and me are two totally different Doms!
I'm glad you're not my "Friend!"
What do you do when you're bored, burn down Orphanages?
Crappy! Sure, go for it! lol

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:40:07 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		velvettears: I appreciate the thought, you sweetie - not much hurts my feelings anymore, actually.
It was kind of a low thing to say, though.

- Susan  


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:43:02 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Trainers and those who are "married, but looking" have something in common. Both are emotionally unavailable and both search for partners to use on a short term basis. I used to think a trainer was someone who preferred an inexperiencd partner because they could train without having to untrain. I'm going to tell my own experience to better explain. I joined this sight as a newby. When the guy I became involved with told me he was a trainer, I thought I had found the perfect situation. I didn't know what the title "trainer " in the bdsm world meant. I really cared for this man and was very good to him. In return, he ignored me on Valentine's Day, stood me up on my birthday, refused to ever take me on a date, and constantly cancelled planned sessions because something suddenly came up. As a newby, I thought I was doing something wrong or not learning fast enough and doubled my efforts. In the end, he dumped me when I did nothing whatsoever to deserve it. Trainers only want short term and no amount of effort on the trainees part will convince them otherwise. If I had known what a trainer was to begin with, it would have saved me a lot of heartache. There are plenty of doms and switches out there not seeking a short term fling who are willing to train someone with little or no experience. I hope this warning will prevent someone else from being hurt. 


I'm sincerely sorry you were hurt and your naivete and enthusiasm for service were somewhat battered by this experience. It is likely that your status provided the avenue of sorts that he required to utilize you in the manner he wished without having to meet the needs you'd expressed or hoped he would acknowledge at some point. Please be aware, a title is only that. This is not a world where certificates of merit are handed out. While you may be inexperienced, you possess intuition and a good dose of common sense.

For a time it would be best for you to devote yourself to healing and becoming well versed about the lifestyle you enjoy. This means you may be requiered to flush your mind of the things he's told you and discover your own truth instead. If you would like additional suggestions you are free to contact me should you desire. Do not allow this situation to hinder your progress, it could truly be the springboard towards the dominant that you've wanted all along. I wish you the best.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:46:55 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Mist,

That sarcastic brew was aimed at anyone saying "its all okay, he told her upfront".

I agree that people should take responsibility for their actions, this girl is clearly niave and manipulative, but any dominant worth his salt should be able to see that a mile away.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:47:15 PM   
Kashan


Posts: 51
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline 		Oh my goodness, and you wonder why newbies are so confused? I'm pretty sure the thing is that so long as both parties agree agree to a scenario, it's all good, but once someone feels they aren't getting what they need, they should bail. Being masochists, it's hard for us to let go. Yes, some pain is good and some is not, but it's hard to delineate between the two. And it's one thing for a Dom to say, hey, you are getting to close, you should find someone else, and a different thing all together to lead her on, setting up sessions and then canceling. That's mean no matter what his title is. And how do you know he's not testing your devotion? It is very confusing for newbies cause we don't know what's "normal" and what is just unacceptable. That's the whole boundary thing. And you Doms love to push them right? And we love to have them pushed right? sigh. and we are all still learning or we wouldn't be here.
OP: sorry it hurts, but you are better off without him

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: what every newbie should know about trainers - 9/3/2006 11:48:37 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

And think about why so many of us are harsher. Because it WORKS.


No, it doesn't work.  It only serves to stop the conversation and alienate the person seeking comfort, help, or advice.  Or maybe that is what *you* mean by "it WORKS".

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 60
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