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ORIGINAL: justheather

It struck me this morning as I was reading the advice given by some of our members in various threads, that it seems to be the opinion of some people here, if not many, that people can not change. When people post questions about compatability in one form or another, often times the answer given by more than a few people is "If this person is not compatible with regard to XYZ, the answer is simply 'move on'".
 
This answer is pretty much valid, for most of the time, we are only given a "part" of the situation, one view, and one person's subjective perspective.


I have heard often times throughout my life the adage "People don't change." Usually I hear this when there is a discussion among women about why a particular relationship failed. While I agree that "People don't magically change just because you offer them love and you want them to change" I do believe that people are capable of change.

i believe that most of us feel that there is room and opportunity to change.  However, "some old stubborn dogs really can't  (or really don't want) to be taught new tricks".  Some folks when they post, are seeking certain answers that validate their feelings expressed, and tend to ignore the comments of those who ruffle their feathers or call them on their shit, etc.  Given the nature of this board, and what is shared and what is or may be "selectively omitted" or forgotten nuances of situations, folks are limited to making only general speculations and assumptions.

How many of us are on a spiritual path that involves self-exploration and subsequent growth? Is growth not change? And are relationship "issues" not also opportunities for people to go inside, look at themselves honestly, come to realizations and move toward change?

These are are valid points to consider, but i believe there is always more depth and other perspectives than what is often shared on one side of a relationship issue. 

I believe that by meditating on positive thoughts, I can change my attitude. I believe that by choosing to process experiences in a different way, I can create change in the way I respond emotionally to situations. I believe change is possible. One of the reasons I love my relationship with my boyfriend is that he challenges me to see things in new ways and, if I come upon a new way of thinking that works better for me than the way Im doing it presently, to integrate those ways into my own thought patterns. He loves me as I am, but still encourages me to grow and yes, I believe even to change.

You are fortunate to have this vision and awareness, and i believe that is part of why you found another who complements who you are.  Others are not there yet, while some others may be way ahead. 

Is it somehow a disservice to one party (I guess it would usually be the sub) to expect or suggest that he or she change something for the sake of the relationship if that change is inevitably going to be one that improves his or her self-awareness and results in personal growth? For me, that is a huge part of what draws me to this type of relationship to begin with. We talk about training and behavior modification of the slave, but yet when the submissive partner in a relationship expresses that "a need is not being met" so many people say "leave the relationship". Are we not doing them a disservice by offering this kind of broad, sweeping advice?

That is an area, where we can only generalize without knowing the details and the other perspectives involved in relationship issues.  It is also a disservice to the other party involved, when only one side of the issue is presented by the poster.  Emotional posts tend to be very subjective.  Other issues may not be conveyed objectively during these situations.  Advice is just that.  It is asked for and given.  There are no rules as to what type of advice will be given or received, nor should there be.  The poster has the choice to either accept the advice offered, or breeze past it and move on.  This is NOT a professional counseling board.  It is a place of community support, nothing more.

Or, are we setting them up for failure by suggesting that he or she can change and find a way to be happy under the present conditions?

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ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

A person can change - but they have to want to.  No matter what their partner wants or what others think, change only happens when its personal.  No more no less - nor should it be any different.

 

Peace and Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

But could many of the things we tend to accept as "hard wired" also be changed with effort and sacrifice and commitment? And where is the line drawn between "being myself" and being willing to change? I guess that was really what I was getting at... not so much a cut and dry answer as to whether or not people change but are we open to the idea of change as readily as we are to the idea that a person "just wasnt right for us" when the change we would have to make involves some hard work and perhaps to a vanilla world would seem like a giving up of a part of oneself (and not in a good way) whereas the ultimate result could really be some amazing growth.

An extreme example perhaps, but illustrates how hard wired some things are and a question I have asked many heterosexual men. "If you found the ideal woman for you, she was pretty, had a great body, was intelligent and witty etc etc and you desperately wanted to marry her, how would your feelings for her change when she told you she was a man until her op a few years back, or would you change your ideas to accept her for who she is now?" I have to say here and now, they usually run a mile and question themselves as to whether they might be gay. This is a change in attitude which is not acceptable to them, even though it shouldnt really matter than much (?).
 

I don't have the answer...and honestly the more I think about it the more nuances I see and the more questions pop up... I guess Im interested in other people's ideas about personal growth, change and submission.

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Amazing how many subs/slaves that are standing on their tiptoes ancticipating being changed, molded into the perfect sub/slave for their Dominant... IF they can only deal with this or that "thing". 

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ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

Amazing how many subs/slaves that are standing on their tiptoes ancticipating being changed, molded into the perfect sub/slave for their Dominant... IF they can only deal with this or that "thing". 

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

If they really WANT to make a relationship work, despite these obstacles, both will have to be willing to adapt and compromise, but I don't see that as changing.