RE: What is Shibari (Full Version)

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GoddessJules -> RE: What is Shibari (1/12/2005 8:50:18 PM)

quote:

New here, rather surprised to see someone flamed for an innocent question


Exactly *where* did I flame someone on this thread? I just gave an explanation as to why a question like this would be construed as annoying.



ProtagonistLily -> RE: What is Shibari (1/12/2005 8:58:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: explorer44106

As an example of what I am talking about, the sites posted by Destinyskeins included some of the best I have ever seen on rope bondage, and I have done google searchs for bondage info before. They were probably tucked away on page 17 of my google search or something.


You know, it's not like the person said "Hey, I'm interested in Shibari, does anyone know any good sites out there?" That would have been perfectly acceptable rather than expect someone to explain what Shibari is....

That we are still discussing this, relative to "Nice and Not Nice" is beyond me. I found the 'submissives' to be the rude people on this thread, not the Mistresses.




lechat -> RE: What is Shibari (1/13/2005 1:32:10 PM)

seems like a lot of work. but japs are industrious little devils!



GoddessJules -> RE: What is Shibari (1/13/2005 1:43:01 PM)

quote:

seems like a lot of work. but japs are industrious little devils!


Wow. . . .

J



lechat -> RE: What is Shibari (1/13/2005 4:46:36 PM)

wow how brown cow?



Goodmix -> RE: What is Shibari (1/13/2005 7:10:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

Goodmix,

Perhaps you and Stef just got off on a bad note. She isn't a jerk either.




i agree and i did appoligize.

I did find out what "objectification" meant earlier.
the question i have mulling around in my head has more to do with collaring "ceramonies"
thank You for Your help, i appreciate it



happypervert -> RE: What is Shibari (1/15/2005 9:11:23 AM)

I do hate to drop in at the end of a pissing match, but I took at this page on the CRAM site suggested earlier and it doesn't inspire much confidence in anything else they have to say. Since I'm going to trash that site as a source of info, I'll replace it with Tammad's Bondage How-To Page. That seems a lot better to me.

First, it leads off with the profound quote "In Japan, it said that binding the body, frees the sole". Perhaps this is just a typo, or perhaps the author of this page is a stooge who doesn't know that "sole" is a fish or the bottom of a shoe and definitely the same as "soul".

Then immediately after that it states "Unlike other cultures, Japanese women find it acceptable to be humiliated and bound for carnal pleasures." Now I'm convinced the author is a stooge and probably just writing about the fantasies he has of Japanese women while he jerks off. Though I wouldn't call myself an expert on Japan, I was married to a woman from Tokyo for 10 years and I did learn that western stereotypes of Japanese society are based on the most superficial observations and are often completely off the mark. As a matter of fact, I believe GoddessJules has mentioned she is 1/2 Japanese, and it wouldn't surprise me if that is what contributes to her dominant nature.

So anyway, the author of that page has only impressed me by his ignorance; a quick look at a few other pages there did nothing to dispel that impression. So I would say that site is best avoided because there's no reason to think his ideas on bondage are any better.



GoddessJules -> RE: What is Shibari (1/15/2005 9:29:47 AM)

quote:

Now I'm convinced the author is a stooge and probably just writing what he imagines about Japanese women to fuel his jerk off fantasies. Though I wouldn't call myself an expert on Japan, I was married to a woman from Tokyo for 10 years and I did learn that western stereotypes of Japanese society are based on the most superficial observations and are often completely off the mark.


Right on Happy, most of the stereotypes are *way* off the mark. There are so many pushy, rude, bossy, arrogant middle aged Japanese women that they came up with a name for them. I don't know if you remember, but the word was "obatarian."

quote:

As a amtter of fact, I believe GoddessJules has mentioned she is 1/2 Japanese, and it wouldn't surprise me if that is what contributes to her dominant nature.

I believe it comes from both sides of my ancestry. The Japanese side *does* contribute to it. A Japanese woman is generally the ruler of the house (not in the sense of a formal title. . .but she gets her way as far as all the practical running-of-the-house is concerned). The man is away too much at work so she rules. . .and rules with an iron fist. She *does* however, prevail to tradition and gives the facade of the man ruling the house. (Do you see that now since hindsight is 20/20 Happy?) In most of the Japanese households that I have been exposed to, there *is* a sense that the men ruled (prima facie.) But the rules are made by and order is maintained by women.
My mother is a very small, petite, meek looking woman. She can get my dad to do anything. . .not by overt force, but by making him see that he just can't do without her LOL

**as an aside**
Maybe this "subservient" facade does give her a postion of "stregth" in her relationship with my father. That negro can't cook, clean, wash clothes, or find anything in the house. My mom went to Japan to attend a funeral and I thought he was going to break down after about a week. He might try to get mad and argue with mom. . .but he KNOWS not to cross the line. Mom won't *hestiate* to leave the room and make a show of packing her bags. LOL It's comedy (Manzai)

J



happypervert -> RE: What is Shibari (1/15/2005 12:49:17 PM)

No, I don't recall the word "obatarian", but your discussion of the women ruling the house reminded me of the word "karoshi" describing the men literally working to death to support the home. I also recall stories about the housewives sitting around together and referring to their husbands as garbage whose only purpose was to bring the paycheck home to them. That is hardly the male dominated society as it is often portrayed.

One thing that was really interesting to learn was that there is the "public face" and "private face", where the public face is the one like is often shown in films with department store employees smiling, bowing, and otherwise being ultra polite. And since it is a homogeneous society all the social conventions are understood by everyone except foreigners. So someone can be smiling and seemingly polite while in essense telling you to go fuck yourself. Dumb gaijin that I am, I'd probably say "domo".



GoddessJules -> RE: What is Shibari (1/15/2005 12:55:52 PM)

quote:

And since it is a homogeneous society all the social conventions are understood by everyone except foreigners.


Absolutely. People don't believe the horror stories that I tell about my mom. They are like, "NO WAY!!! She is so sweet!!!" I don't know how many bitches I've been called by her LOL But at the end of the day, I know she would lay her life on the line for me.

Japanese people have a "superiority complex". . .they *do* indeed look down on gaijins. I remember being on a train one time. This grioup of Japanese girls thought that I was just a regular ole American. They were talking MAD shit about me and my friends. . .but when they looked at us, they smiled and said "Harro". . . I replied in Nihongo [:D]

J



DiamondDiva -> RE: What is Shibari (1/15/2005 8:10:17 PM)

I am not going to get into the middle of the arguement but I do want to discuss the original question The Shibari Technique. I have yet to see or hear of anyone who can actually do it properly let alone master it. My question is What makes it so difficult?




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: What is Shibari (1/15/2005 8:19:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiamondDiva

I am not going to get into the middle of the arguement but I do want to discuss the original question The Shibari Technique. I have yet to see or hear of anyone who can actually do it properly let alone master it. My question is What makes it so difficult?




I am studying it now with Midori's book, Diamond Diva, albeit slowly and with little help. It is very beautiful, and can be quite painful also. Wonderful knots, and very long lengths of rope (hemp, preferably), and keeping everything balanced and equal and even on both sides. Quite an art form in and of itself! It takes a lot of practice to work with a long continuous piece of hemp, and still be graceful and in control. Midori is an expert and even gives seminars on Shibari. I am sure there are others also.



Mytimetoserve -> RE: What is Shibari (1/16/2005 9:32:25 AM)

If you're interested, bondage.com has some photos of men and women in Shabari bondage. It is kind of a drag to register, but it may be informative.



Goodmix -> RE: What is Shibari (1/21/2005 8:19:35 AM)

I was at a Black Rose event last weekend and there was a couple doing Shabari. after he was finished with all the fancy knots (which took some time and looked cool), he layed on the floor facing her and talked.
i'm not trying to put it down, and i know it's all what "Y/your" into, but i thought it was boring. no paddles, canes, whips, no blindfolds, no gags...no electric. we went off and i got into the vaccum bed.....ice & vibrators ....lots more intimate, not to mention fun
(just my opinion)



ShadeDiva -> RE: What is Shibari (1/22/2005 6:53:53 PM)

Then again, did you hear what they were talking about?

Being firmly bound and then talked thorugh various things can be incredibly steamy and take you places that are unbelievable.

It's also a great deal of fun when you are the person doing the talking.

*smile*

Rope has it's own unique energy - and it takes some time to really settle into the binding, and for it to reach it's zenith.

Not all incredibly heart racing mind exploding play comes from what is visibly seen or rough-and-tumble play, after all.

Sometimes the more subtle and less obvious types of play are the most intense, mindblowing, and soul-searing.

~ShadeDiva



ShadeDiva -> RE: What is Shibari (1/22/2005 6:56:48 PM)

Oh and as a small aside, for what it is worth ...

... there is NOTHING more intimate, imo anyway ...

... than getting deeply and firmly inside someone's head.


You can't top that with just mere physical play in my book, pun intended.

~ShadeDiva



hornyliltoy -> RE: What is Shibari (1/23/2005 8:25:39 PM)

I find your entries kind and that seems to be increasingly rare these days when a cheap rude barb at someone is just too easy. I think the later is poser and the former indicates confidence, security traits of the real domme as well as just a more attractive person to be around.



Destinysskeins -> RE: What is Shibari (1/24/2005 8:41:23 AM)

Why, thank you hornyliltoy!! It's nice to hear that efforts at being empathic and helpful are appreciated. As for the difficulties surrounding other posters - i truly believe that it is a simple case of miscommunication (and perhaps lack of patience) in most cases. I've personally never had a problem with any of the wonderful posters here and i think that if time is taken to digest everyone's words carefully and to measure your own in a respectful, deliberate manner then most altercations can be prevented. (Ok stopping now because i feel like Smoky the Bear - only YOU can prevent forum flaming! *laughs!*)



Goodmix -> RE: What is Shibari (1/24/2005 3:32:22 PM)

quote:

Not all incredibly heart racing mind exploding play comes from what is visibly seen or rough-and-tumble play, after all.

Sometimes the more subtle and less obvious types of play are the most intense, mindblowing, and soul-searing.


i agree. but this looked more tender, not that i am opposed to a tender moment, i just call that after care.
althought there is also something to be be said for the amount of patience she had (after all, he was making these knots for for more than 1/2 hour) and that is certainly something i could use more of, who go's to a dungeon to be suddle?
again, just my opinion



happypervert -> RE: What is Shibari (1/25/2005 6:13:53 AM)

quote:

Sometimes the more subtle and less obvious types of play are the most intense, mindblowing, and soul-searing.


Ooooh! I like that. Hope you don't mind if I use that as a quote below for a while.



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