RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films

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BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 3:47:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom There have been Jewish and even Christian settlements all over the middle east for centuries, it is only recently an issue. I realize that is a concept you cannot grasp so look at the background to the Lebanon conflict and what sects were battling who, look at the fact that the arab Christians and being persecuted in Iraq which by definition means they have been there. The whole Da Vinci Code thing has much to do with the Egyptian Christians, the Copts. I could go on but since facts have a strong liberal bias, I am sure you will dismiss them. The history of the Christians decimating "heathens" is unequeled on this planet by probably all other religions combined. I guess we should be really sad that the Aztec religion didn't become a world religion. FHky *Give your heart to Quetzacoatyl. Better yet, give someone elses heart to Quetzacoatyl!*

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 3:57:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Unfortunately, "hyprocrisy" is a human trait, not simply a "Christian" one. Would either of you please show me a religion or a society anywhere in history (of any import) that didn't have hyprocrisy, murder, war, or power struggles associated with any type of belief system? Christianity is an easy target for you, simply because you were brought up in a Christian society, and because it's what you "know". But what you are both doing is displaying an animosity that borders on prejudice. Did the Christian religion bring any good concepts to human society or provide any comfort and benefit to people through the ages? Please stop painting with such broad brushes. It can be interpreted as narrow-mindedness. FHky *Jainism comes to mind as a religion that doesn't have hypocrisy, murder, war, or power struggles. Sadly, it is the only one that I can think of.* *Most religions have good intentions at their core, and would be wonderful if people didn't come along and mess them up. Pity we can't have a religion devoid of people.* I don't have a religion. I have a deep, personal relationship with a dead guy, Carl Sagan. Hey, does that sound any crazier than claiming that I have a deep, personal relationship with a guy that died on a stick 2,000 years ago?

Invictus754 -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 4:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY From a Wikipedia about the Aztec religion. FHky I'm not so sure I would believe 80,000 is the accurate number when you quote from Wikipedia. ANYONE can post to Wikipedia, and it is known for its bad info: quote: Last week Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia's founder, announced that they would no longer let anonymous individuals create new entries although anonymous folks could still edit existing entries. In the case of John Seigenthaler, however, this would have made little difference. The fact of the matter is that as long as Wikipedia allows contributions from unknown people, Wikipedia cannot claim to be an accurate resource because a good faith effort to police content isn't the same thing as editorial oversight. The implication that everyone comes to Wikipedia with the same (neutral and honest) agenda cannot be sustained by the evidence in question. No, we can only talk about trends and tendencies. The problem has not gone unnoticed in academic circles. Educators struggle with how best to handle the online resource, being on the one hand reticent to accept it on account of its problematic nature, and on the other hand, wanting to embrace it because of its ubiquity and cost to the student (that is, it's free). Proponents of Wikipedia often argue that existing resources themselves are also flawed, and are no better than Wikipedia. This argument is weak, however, because it is tantamount to suggesting that because there are problems with some resources, we should embrace all resources uncritically. This is an absurd argument. from http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051211-5739.html So, if you can find another resource other than the great Wikipedia, you might have some reasonable argument. Otherwise, it is hogwash. Plus, your argument of "Did the Christian religion bring any good concepts to human society or provide any comfort and benefit to people through the ages" is critically flawed. Just because some parts are good doesn't mean overall it is good. Ghengis Khan united most of China (good concept, great execution - pun intended) and because of him the whole area became peaceful and trade flourished for quite some time. But with your argument, he is up there with Jesus Christ himself. If you read your history, you will find that the 'church' is mostly about keeping itself in power and sucking up the money they pull from the hands of the third world countries in payment for the soothing phrases like "God loves you." "He wouldn't give you more than you can handle." "Don't aquire worldy riches, aquire heavenly riches." Also, how can Catholics espouse cannibalism? If you truly believe, then you truly eat his body and blood during Mass. What kind of kinky crap is that? Anyone who walks into a building professing that they talk to their "god" in the building is a liar. If I thought my God was located inside a building, I would crawl in like a worm, crying and begging for forgiveness, and beseeching he didn't obliterate me from being because of my shortcomings and transgressions. Oh, wait...I AM my God...so I wouldn't do that to myself. :)

Amaros -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 4:30:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring And I am not a Christian apologist, but I would bet that there have been many more people killed in the name of some type of athiestic fascism (fascism, nazism, communism,etc.) than have been killed by religious zealots through history. Only because they lacked modern technology - which they made up for with enthusiasm. Applying the whole numbers thing here is ridiculous anyway, when they come for you will you find comfort in the thought that Hitler killed more people? One is as good as a million, you're just as fucking dead. Anyway, it's becoming apparent that porn is on the platform for the '08 election campaign, the pubs have nothing, not even a candidate, the economy is crap, the war on terror is a tar baby, and the weather just keeps getting hotter - so it's gonna be morality and family values folks, gird your loins. You might want to follow this case: http://www.reason.com/0405/fe.gb.xtreme.shtml quote: To help finance his case, Zicari has reached out to some of his better-funded peers in the porn business, including Larry Flynt. So far, he hasn�t gotten much response. "There�s a lot of people in this industry who think it�s not them, it�s me," Zicari says. "But honestly, if those motherfuckers think that Ashcroft has hired 25 prosecutors to get me and that�s it, then they are unbelievably delusional. Are you gonna tell me that Jerry Falwell sits at his desk, and he�s got a box of porn, and it�s divided into the porn he likes and the porn he doesn�t like? You think he holds up a movie from [mainstream producer] Vivid and says, �This is good porn!� You know what, man, he takes that box and says �Burn it! Burn all of it! It�s all fucking blasphemy!�" Except for the swearing part, Zicari is undoubtedly right. In starting with him, though, he believes that the Justice Department is taking a risk. "This is the World Series, and they�re the Boston Red Sox," he exclaims. "They�re getting a chance that they haven�t had in 9 billion years, and if they blow this, they can never come back. Because where can you go after a jury says there�s nothing wrong with these movies? How do you go after a movie involving a husband and wife and the guy�s wearing a condom? How do you get someone to go after that, when you couldn�t even prosecute a tape where the guy comes in the girl�s mouth, and then he fucking stabs her? This is their one shot, and they fucking know it."

FirmhandKY -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 7:16:21 PM)
Fast Reply. My, my, my what venom and hatred ooze from the screen when someone dare mention the possibility that Christianity isn't all bad. I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone to accept any specific religion or belief. I am asking that you don't let your personal prejudices make you out to be the very thing you are railing against when you condemn Christianity. Narrow minded. Hate filled. Smug in your beliefs. Self-righteous. Especially self-righteous. That seems to be a common theme in the "anti-religion" believers. Some specific comments: Crappy: 1. The DaVinci Code: Do you mean Holy Blood, Holy Grail or the works of Pierre Plantard? Some people will take the slightest whiff of a bad aroma to declare that the cheese is bad. And the lawsuit is over. Dan Brown was found not to have "stolen" anything. But ... if you wanna believe what you wanna believe ... far be it from me to suggest you look for facts. Judge: 'Da Vinci Code' did not breach copyright laws 2. The Pope not helping the Jews during WWII. You haven't kept up much with the latest research and publications I don't guess. This meme was given a lot of momentum by the publication of Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII in 1999. Why not check out the rebuttal in Hitler, the War, and the Pope published 2000? Or even better, the book The Myth of Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII and His Secret War Against Nazi Germany written by *Rabbi* David G. Dalin in 2005? But, I guess, since you already know everything, you've spent a lot of time reviewing, reading, determining the most probable facts already, haven't you? No, you aren't the kind of man who simply operates on his prejudices, are you? 3. Things "going over people's head". While not everyone has the same knowledge and experiences you may have, neither do many of them have the haughty ego either. Give me an uneducated, down-to-earth person without an attitude of condescension any day. However, I am also well versed in the manner and methods of condescension myself. But I tend to withhold my blessedly righteous displays of superiority for people who deserve them, not condemn the entire CM readership as stupid and uneducated. Brutalapathy: 4. *Give your heart to Quetzacoatyl. Better yet, give someone elses heart to Quetzacoatyl!* I spewed my Sam's Choice Clear American White Grape Naturally Flavored Sparkling Water Beverage all over my keyboard! No, wait ... condescension ... hmmm ... I spewed my Chateau Lafite Rothschild Pauillac all over my foie gras. Yeah, that's the ticket ... Great joke Brutal. Invictus: 5. Wikipedia: Wikipedia survives research test Special Report: Internet encyclopaedias go head to head There are others. Nothing touched by the hands of man is perfect (hey, didn't I say that before?). I don't wish to get into a slug fest over the overall accuracy of the Wiki system, but I think that anything you read should always be read with critical thinking skills. Anything. 6. Eucharist = cannibalism. Got it. No shock here, I'm afraid. 7. Your argument against my argument re: Did the Christian religion bring any good concepts to human society or provide any comfort and benefit to people through the ages is fatally flawed. Actually, I do think that Ghengis Khan was a great leader and did a lot for the peoples of Asia. Did he kill a bunch too? Seems so. Please go back and read benji's post about morals of the time. What I find amusing is that even the people who scream how evil and detestable Christianity has been throughout history seem to unconsciously use the Christian morality as the touchstone of their diatribes. 8. God in a building. Hilarious. And shows me the great void in your understanding of what Christianity is suppose to be about, as well. "Sound and fury ... " So that it doesn't get lost in all the outrage, I'll say it again. From my experience, too many people who rail against Christianity act and speak in perfect mirroring of the things that they condemn. FHky edited for:: Grammar and clarity

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 7:59:51 PM)
We are on the verge of millions or Americans being killed by Moslem idiots and our retaliation that will wipe out zillions of them. That is a pretty stiff price to pay for superstition. Love, truth and beauty...that's all folks.

trannysub007 -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 8:31:28 PM)
Christianity isn't a religion. It's a concept. And a flawed concept the way it's abused by the right-wingers in the USA. Christians are followers of Christ. Not just walking along with Him in the Holy Land. True Christians follow His example of tolerance and love. So, people who claim to be Christian by definition cannot hate anyone, they cannot pray to a statue of Mary or one of the saints, and they do not believe they are eating His body or drinking His blood. When Christians take the sacrament, they are asked to remember what He did for them. If Y/you arent a believer in Christ, yet Y/you do good to others, practive tolerance and love, clothe the naked, feed the hungry, do unto others, etc, then Y/you are a Christian - moreso than the right-wing idiots that infest the USA. Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Buddhist ... doesnt matter the religion. Anyone can do the things Christ taught and not have to believe in Him as the Savior of mankind. Oh, wait ... sorry ... isn't this thread about The Bush administration making collars and fetish wear? hehehe

Sinergy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 10:02:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom The history of the Christians decimating "heathens" is unequeled on this planet by probably all other religions combined. Chairman Mao wiped out every Christian person in China. Pol Pot killed everybody with a 2nd grade education or higher in Kampuchea. Hitler wiped out 6 million Jews. Stalin killed over a million non-USSR types in his purges. Who knows how many total people were killed in African purges (Rwanda), Eastern Europe (probably not Christian), etc. Sri Lanka saw the decimation of countless muslims, tamils, etc. Exactly how many "heathens" has Christianity wiped out? People have been slaughtering people they dont like or agree with since antiquity. To consider that Christians have a monopoly on the gratuitous slaughter of other human beings seems the most profound hubris to me. But just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy

Emperor1956 -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/8/2006 10:23:50 PM)
uh....while I enjoy bashing a fundie of any stripe as well as the next godless heathen (that's YOU, benj), I did just want to point out: quote: Also, whereas Christians imposed their religion on anyone they encountered, the Aztecs sacrificed people who were already of that religion, Uh, no. Most of the people the Aztecs slaughtered were other natives who had the bad luck to be found anywhere near this unbelievably bloodthirsty culture. Of course when you are offing 15,000 or so fellow natives a year, you gotta expect some collateral damage on your own. Also, if you believe the stories, Cortez didn't do to well ... of course, its all in a day's work -- Cortez gets a sphincter full of molten gold, but his sailors probably gave the indigenous people syphilis and smallpox, ultimately helping to wipe them out. quote: and their society was in line with their own principles, unlike some of the followers of Jesus "Turn the other cheek" Christ (See inquisitions, crusades, Ireland, et al) Uh benji, honey? The Irish conflict I know of is Protestants v. Catholics. (I know, its actually Brits v. native people, but Puh-leeze, don't distract Me with facts). The point being...they are all followers of Jesus. So an Irish Jew is walking down the street in Dublin in the time of the Troubles, and while it isn't very safe, he figures he is probably ok. Then suddenly out of the dark, a figure grabs the Jew, holds a VERY sharp knife to his throat, and in a thick Dublin brogue whispers "Are ye a Protestant or a Catholic? Quick lad, the answer may be your life!" And the Jew sighs and says gratefully "I'm A JEW!" And his assailant says "Ah, thanks be to God, Ah'm the luckiest Palestinian in all of Dublin!" You guys really DO need to chill. E.

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 7:48:42 AM)
This is just a personal observation, but I think that a lot of the animosity toward Christianity stems from the outlook of Christians that their religion makes them somehow superior to others. The whole " One True God " thing grates on peoples nerves. The same is true for Judaism, Islam, and Zoroastrianism. I am not about to claim that Christianity is any worse than most other religions, but it is no better either. Islamics have killed in the name of their religion. So have Jews and Christians. This puts these religions ( as well as many others ) on equal ground when it comes to bad bahavior, but yet the followers of said religions are loathe to admit that their religion is as unworthy of any special status due to heightened morality than are any of the others. I find most religions to be equally detestable, but the ones that wallow in the filth of their hypocrisy, self righteously congratulating themselves for making the " right " choice are particularly nauseating, as their pious vanity blinds them from seeing just how the shortcomings of their faith is equal to the shortcomings of the so called " false " religions. And yes, the circular reasoning and sleight of hand apologetics gets tiresome as well. So the murders aren't " real " Christians. Ok, so murdering Islamics aren't " real " Islamics. Murdering atheists aren't " real " atheists. See how silly that sounds when you aren't using it to defend your own belief? But lets face the facts. The Crusaders were just as pious, just as convinced that they were doing their God's work, and just as noble as the Christians of today. Doubtless the Nazi stormtroopers also had this same self righteousness while they were slaughtering Jews, homosexuals, and other ' undesirables ' in Nazi controlled Europe. But self righteousness doesn't make a cause better. It just serves as a mechanism to justify slaughtering people without accepting personal responsibility. This is true whether the cause be religious or secular. Hubris is the great killer, and the religious institutions that get bashed the most are the ones that are flaunting this hubris. If you want to stop the negative view of your religion, change the way you display your religion. Otherwise the criticism is well deserved.

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:04:29 AM)
The anti-Semetism of Hitler and much of Europe came from Christianity.

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:10:11 AM)
Who did Christians torture, try to exterminate and burn at the stake: Albigensians, Apostolici, Arians, Beguines, Bogomils, Beghards, Brethren of the Free Spirit, Cathars, Fraticelli, Gnostics, Hussites, Huguenots, Knights Templar, Lollards, Manichaeans, Moors, Waldensians, and "witches." They tortured and burned alive scientists, homosexuals, and philosophers. Protestants slaughtered Catholics; Catholics slaughtered Protestants. They all slaughtered Jews. There were four inquisitions lasting over 1,000 years, and ending just recently. Crusaders routinely slaughtered whole cities including old men, women, sick, poor, crippled and young children. Their clarion call was: "Kill them all, let God sort them out." Heretics were slowly, ruthlessly tortured for weeks on-end in Medieval dungeons filled with real torture devices. They were forced to denounce as heretics all their children, their parents, and all their friends and relatives. They had their tongues cut out. They were placed on a low temperature fire that caused a slow agonizing death.

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:14:59 AM)
*Dang Whip, you're gettin' me all hot & bothered over here! Now whisper something about thumb screws in an evil, sultry voice.*

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:18:40 AM)
Buddhists, Bahists, Jews (for the past several thousand years), and followers of many other religions have not caused the carnage Christianity has caused. Few belief systems have caused the torture Christianity has caused. Yes, Christianity is on par with Stalinism, Pol Potism, Nazism, bin Ladinism, and Aytollahism. No belief system has done more damage to mankind for so long as Christianity, or more precisely the Roman Catholic Church. Even today it is responsible the world's greatest problem: overpopulation.

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:27:55 AM)
The sheer number of entire belief systems and peoples totally exterminated by the Roman Catholic Church is without equal in human history. The Roman Catholic Church took mankind into the Dark Ages. The reign of terror of the Third Reich lasted ten years. The reign of terror of Christianity has lasted 2,000, and is still going strong. They still seek to control everyone's lives. Whether it be stem cell research, legalized prostitution, backroom abortions, unwanted children being brought into the world, a society with a negative view of human sexuality, the availability of the morning after pill, what is seen on television, what is heard on the radio, and overpopulation--it is Christians trying to force their morality and views on others. Christians have done far worse to those that don't share their beliefs than Romans ever did to them.

MrrPete -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:29:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip The anti-Semetism of Hitler and much of Europe came from Christianity. I disagree. Hitler hated Jews because he hated being one himself.

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:32:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrrPete quote: ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip The anti-Semetism of Hitler and much of Europe came from Christianity. I disagree. Hitler hated Jews because he hated being one himself. Hitler wasn't Jewish. But even if he were, where would that self-hatred have come from if not from the Christian society he grew up in?

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:38:15 AM)
Jesus Christ!!! Christians practically invented torture. The word "torture" comes from a Latin word meaning twist, because Christians used to strap naked females down on a table and twist rope around their arms and legs until their bones broke. They invented a device called "the pear" that was insert into the female pussy that opened up wider and wider until the it tore the vagina apart. They invented a three pronged device that tore the breasts of a female off her body. They invented the wooden horse. They lowered men and women onto a pyramid shaped object. They invented the Misdeal torture chamber with rack and wheel. Whatever the Romans did to Christians was nothing compared to what Christians did to fellow Christians. The Knights Templar were Christians who protected their fellow Christians on their way to the Holy Land. When they were no longer needed, all the Knights Templars were gathered together and very slowly tortured to death. They slowly burned the Chief Knight Templar starting with his toes, then the soles of his feet, then his feet, then his calves. Every time he went unconscious they kept reviving him. They forced naked females to eat barley, then forced them to drink water and watched while the stomachs of their victims slowly expanded and burst. There were three inquisitions that lasted over 1,000 years. The Poop never apologized for these atrocities. Catholics and Protestants slaughtered and tortured each other en mass. Christians committed genocide again and again. They exterminated the Cathars, and the Gnostics. Anyone who thinks today's fanatical Muslims are blood thirsty never studied the history of Christianity. Jesus never claimed to be God. Christians burned all kinds of people at the stake. They accused lesbians of being witches. They accused the mentally ill as being possessed by the devil and needing to be burned at the stake. The bible says you can judge a tree by its fruit. Belief in Christianity has led to unspeakable horrors. Christians burned at the stake anyone who said the sun is at the center of the solar system. They burned Giordano Bruno alive at the stake. They used to whip themselves. There is a major catholic sect today that tortures themselves. This sect has a special connection to the Pope. The world was plunged into darkness for almost 2,000 years because Christians tried to suppress reading anything other than the bible and tried their best to suppress any knowledge outside their religious dogma. What kind of moral being says worship me and all is forgiven, fail to worship me, and no matter how good you are, I will torture you for all Eternity? What kind of intelligent being claims to be all powerful, but claims not to be responsible for the suffering in Hell of those who didn't worship him. Any adult who believes that Santa Claus is God is nuts or God is Santa Claus is nuts. And that is exactly what every Christian believes. That God is some super, Santa Claus that watches you when you do good, and watches you when you do bad, and at the end of your life rewards those who are good, and punishes those who are bad. This God is like some super Santa Claus for gullible adults. Does anyone find it funny that the bible which is supposed to the word of the creator of the universe does not reveal a single thing about the universe that wasn't all ready known to mankind? Give me a break. There is no atheist like one that studied the bible for years. In the Bible God supposedly writes, "Do not put a stumbling block before the blind." This is meant figuratively. Yet, this is exactly what some omnipotent, omniscient being is doing if He existed. Christians say there is no right or wrong, there is only God's will. In other words Christians believe there would be nothing wrong with slowly torturing innocent children to death if there was no God. In other words Christians believe there is nothing innately wrong with psychopaths, that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with being vicious, mean, cruel, selfish, and self-centered. Actually, if there is a God, he does slowly torture innocent children to death. There are many diseases that do just this. If there is a God, he must be responsible for all of nature. Man did not cause the Tsunami that drowned a hundred thousand people. Drowning is a horrible death. If anyone has a mental illness it is the folks that believe in fairy tales, that believe some guy who died two thousand years ago is God. People two thousand years ago were very gullible and believed all kinds of non-sense. Things haven't changed much. Today in the news I read, water is coming out of some tree, and 40% of people think it is God's water. How stupid and gullible can peoples be? People believe crop circles are caused by aliens, and there is human face on Mars. All this in a day and age where we understand over 90% of natural phenomena. Two thousand years ago, people were super gullible and believed every crazy thing. Some people believed rocks were all powerful. The new and improved God of the New and Improved Bible is totally incompatible with the God of the old and outdated Bible. Christians don't even celebrate their Sabbath on the right day of the week. Jesus never observed God's Sabbath on Sunday. He never claimed to be God, nor did he ever say to worship Sunday, as God's day of rest. This little modification was made my Constantine, an Emperior. Early Christianity was filled with pagan customs, and it still is. Religious folk are the nut cases that need to be locked away in mental institutions.

BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:39:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrrPete quote: ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip The anti-Semetism of Hitler and much of Europe came from Christianity. I disagree. Hitler hated Jews because he hated being one himself. Anti-Semitism was around in Europe before Hitler came to power. He seized the idea and used it as further motivation. He also imbued his speeches with a liberal dose of Christian rhetoric. While religious leaders like to claim that Hitler and his party were pagans or atheists, the majority of Nazi's were of the Christian faith. I don't see Hitler as a Christian. In fact, I don't see him as anything other than insane. But Nazi Germany was predominantly Christian.

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/9/2006 8:39:43 AM)
The history of Christianity is the history of a 1,000 wars, wholesale slaughter, torture, and intilling a reign of fear in every man, woman and child.

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