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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/9/2006 7:39:19 PM   
TeacherNStudent


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Status: offline 		The idea that we wouldn't have civilization or technology if men didn't make them is an amusing one, and very likely, a false one.  It ignores the fact that women have better manual dexterity than men on the average, it ignores every culture where the men sit on their rumps while the women do the hard labor (mostly African cultures), and it implies that every woman scientist, engineer, doctor, judge, et cetera, has a man at home who really does all her thinking for her so she can look good by presenting his thoughts as hers.  (Obviously, the Clintons had it backwards.)

Let's not make the mistake of assuming that our personal sexual practices actually reflect a fact of nature regarding male "superiority" and female "inferiority".  It's fun in bed, it's fun as a lifestyle, but it doesn't mean a thing in the greater scheme of things.  If women haven't made as many contributions as men have, it's because for millenia, they had to battle for the priviledge of even competing against men.

Rather than speculating that there would have been no civilization if men hadn't built it, let's instead speculate what heights we might have reached if we hadn't thrown away half of our best minds for a few thousand years because their genitals were innies instead of outies.

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/9/2006 7:45:17 PM   
cuddleheart50


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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/9/2006 8:40:42 PM   
NastyDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

and 1 female poster wanting to decorate the fox hole and guard the porta potty.dy for war



The reason for this.. if we go nuclear.. a foxhole isn't gonna save your ass.  So I want to be comfy as I embrace the big flashing light.

If the porta potty blows up first you won't even have to worry about decorating.... it will be a stinking shame either way.  

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/9/2006 8:59:22 PM   
NastyDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressWolfen

What the paper suggests is that males are much more likely to sit in a big circle and cooperatively sing Kumbaya than women are, and yes, there is an evolutionary measure attached to this behaviour for self (primary group) preservation. So bang on correct IslandHeat *winks*


Perhaps I'm wrong, but I gleaned from it that should there not be competing big circles of men singing their own choice of song, that the first group of Kumbaya singing men could give a hoot, and likely not have formed their own singing group.

That the "male warrior effect" did not seem to manifest itself in males until a competive group became known to exist... prior to that, the paper suggests that the behaviors of goth genders appeared unremarkable and similar.

This is intriquing in the sense that the action (effect) is predicated on reaction (to competition), therefore it would constitute a defense mechanism as opposed to an act of aggression.

So in many ways it seems so be the age old question of who came first, the chicken (Kumbaya singers) or the egg (competitive singers)... and in reality, how can one possibly exist without the other? 

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 12:12:21 AM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TeacherNStudent
It ignores the fact that women have better manual dexterity than men on the average, it ignores every culture where the men sit on their rumps while the women do the hard labor (mostly African cultures)


LOL, I agree to some extent, but pointing out Africa as an example of women running things, as if that is a good example. LMAO.

Africa maybe 2000 years ago was a shining example of achievement but the last 1000 years have not been good.

I think it is pretty simple, if women had paved the course of history it would have been different, some technologies wouldn't exist maybe some others would. It's a useless exercise to say it would have been worse or better.





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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 12:20:26 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		The  time difference allowed you to beat me to it Mr Need. I think Mr Teachers statement about Africa was about as perfect an example of shooting yourself in the foot as it is possible to imagine. Thoughtless PC thinking if you will !

SexyRed listed a whole series of professions that women fullfil NOW. My point, which is clearly true, is how we got to now and who brought it about. I notice also that many of the professions she lists are what you might call "sit on the top and let others create the wealth", the perfect example being a lawyer, another being an upper level beaurocrat.ie manager. Even so such posts are dominated by men.

Can you magine for instance a woman having been involved in the development and especially building of the early wooden and metal ships. Today, where computor methods may be involved in the design it is more likely. Who developed the computors tho' ? I believe there is overwhelming evidence that men are more intellectually creative than women. Not that I,or any given man, am/is more creative than all women but that curves displaying creativity/sex are shifted in the direction of men. Mathematical reasoning is a perfect example.


I agree that SexyReds response is better that than moving to another room and having a scream.

Something else just occurred to me. One profession that women do dominate in the UK state schools, at the primary and secondary levels, is teaching. It is being noticed that the feminine approach to things is have a negative effect on the education of boys. Since state schools are only there to educate what you might call the masses, then our leaders are not too worried by that.  SO FAR.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 9/10/2006 1:15:06 AM >

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 12:50:10 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		If you take the one area of society where there is a level playing field for men and women (i.e. education) we are consistently seeing girls out perform boys (in Britain).

When there is equality in the workplace this could quite easily be repeated in that arena.

As an observation, during my education and employment I've always found that girls/women are more studious and obedient/work conscious as (huge generalisation here) I've always felt they want to be liked (by teacher/boss). Thus, it gives them the edge when it comes to learning and doing well. A huge generalisation but an observation all the same.

Another observation, at school and work boys/men are the ones arsing around not taking it serious - at school, I can't ever remember a girl taking someone's shoes off and chucking them out of the window during lessons.

Obviously there are gender values at play here which make women more predisposed to studying and achievement.

With regards to the OP, it could be argued that if women had ruled the roost then we would have had less wars and consequently more progress but then I suppose this contradicts the notion that wars ae necessary population checks.

Regards



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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 1:03:32 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Morning NG, up to your old tricks again I see. In the UK girls only started to outstrip boys as the education system was progressively corrupted and touchy feely methods introduced.  Quite apart from that boys are distracted by the sexual/masturbatory images constantly projected in their direction.

At least in a UK public school they can bugger one another and then go on and concentrate on learning how to run India. Problem is the Indians wont let them. LOL

With regard to the shoe thowing ,a girl is likely to giggle or express concern and disapproval. A boy might have implanted in his mind ideas about space ships or things like that !

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 1:07:14 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

With regards to the OP, it could be argued that if women had ruled the roost then we would have had less wars and consequently more progress but then I suppose this contradicts the notion that wars ae necessary population checks.



No. It is not a case of a particular gender being in charge to stop wars but taking away the competition for resources. Until there is an abundance of resources there will be competition and hence conflict.

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 1:30:41 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Morning Seeks.

In the UK girls only started to outstrip boys as the education system was progressively corrupted and touchy feely methods introduced. 
 
Very weak, Seeks. Best to the face facts and, in this case, take them at face value.

Quite apart from that boys are distracted by the sexual/masturbatory images constantly projected in their direction.
At least in a UK public school they can bugger one another and then go on and concentrate on learning how to run India. Problem is the Indians wont let them. LOL
 
Am I to think you spent your school days masturbating imagining young Indian boys? No wonder you didn't reach the high standards I did by gaining entrance to Chorley 6th form for underachievers.

With regard to the shoe thowing ,a girl is likely to giggle or express concern and disapproval. A boy might have implanted in his mind ideas about space ships or things like that !
 
We had a History teacher who could not get through a lesson without a fag in the staffroom. As soon as she went out of the room we had kids' shoes off and out of the window they went (bullying I suppose but we were only 14). What we'd failed to realise was as we were on the top floor and the staff room was directly below us on the bottom floor our History teacher would see all of these shoes flying past the staff room window and come legging it back up. I can't ever remember girls getting involved in this or other pranks.

Seeks, reading between the lines in your posts you guve me the impression that as far as your concerned white, Western, middle class men are supreme beings as you dismiss any counter argument as touchy-feel.

Regards


 

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 1:34:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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No. It is not a case of a particular gender being in charge to stop wars but taking away the competition for resources. Until there is an abundance of resources there will be competition and hence conflict.
 
By extension, you appear to be suggesting war is a natural state of affairs because there will never be an abundance of resources. Which resources are you talking about?

Regards

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 2:03:18 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		War isn't necessarily the outcome but take it on any level you chose and within any particular society you choose, there is always politics of power and power is about resources. Some people settle for less for peace but that is usually a realistic decision in the face of someone or some institution more powerful. There has always been conflict over resources, just because it doesn't necessarily manifest itself in violence doesn't mean its not there.

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 2:08:06 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		The very fact you have different politics to me and see different solutions to different problems is evidence of a conflict even if we can be relatively civil about it. You might win me over by the power of your arguments but I doubt it because we have fundemental different beliefs.

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get civilized - 9/10/2006 3:14:40 AM   
Zensee


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Status: offline 		Seeks – is not about capability it’s about opportunity, something women continue to have denied them.

Since it takes more than one person to raise a human child and women, of necessity, built the foundation of human culture and verbal language. Smart males helped, of course, as a reaction to the clearly advantageous strategy of the females.

A culture allows the easy sharing of knowledge between individuals, the transmission of it to entire groups and the accumulation and refinement of it through successive generations. It is this adaptation that defines our species and allows for the sort of intellectual fireworks that appear to be the cause of civilization but are in fact the results of it. We build on ideas that are hundreds and thousands of years old.

Men may have a bit more capacity for the kind of abstract and reductive thinking that leads to technological innovation but all the individual cleverness in the world is worthless without a culture to sustain it and give it context.

Far from being a thing to fear, I think a world with equally empowered women would be a much nicer place than the mess we have now. Look what all the chest-thumping has gotten us lately. One more excuse for the boys to blow off a lot of their destructive toys. Now THAT is worthy of dread, Seeks.


Oh. BTW. Agriculture? The cornerstone of all modern civilizations? Women. Sorry, Seeks.
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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 3:28:03 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Edited where hi lighted.
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
The very fact you have different politics to me and see different solutions to the same problems is evidence of a conflict .........


This is a far more likely cause of conflict than resources.

I have, not 15 minutes ago, been reading an article saying that Christians in the UK are starting to adopt a more aggressive stance in the face of imbalanced law enforcement regarding "cultural" aggression, and the onslaught from the PC brigade, the secular and Muslims.

We have started on the slippery road to inter communal strife. What a disaster the influx of committed fundamenalist puritanical Muslims in particualar is going to be.
The wheel of conflict  is starting to accelerate.

No shortage of male warriors either....on both sides.

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 3:43:52 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Showing me the error of my ways Zensee said.
Men may have a bit more capacity for the kind of abstract and reductive thinking that leads to technological innovation but all the individual cleverness in the world is worthless without a culture to sustain it and give it context.

Is it not true  Zensee  that throughout the ages, philosophical, polititical, analytical, literary and poetic creative thinking,  especially with regard to the organisation of society , has mostly been the province of men ?

Though there was opposition to women doing such things, so there was to men, depending on the point of view they expressed.
The sexes are complementary, not equal.

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 5:21:14 AM   
MistressWolfen


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Status: offline 		okay okay okay..so ya read the paper...yes pick your own damned song then Ron *lol*

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 5:27:46 AM   
MistressWolfen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Is it not true  Zensee  that throughout the ages, philosophical, polititical, analytical, literary and poetic creative thinking,  especially with regard to the organisation of society , has mostly been the province of men ?


I would argue that historical examples exist of women excelling and leading in each of those areas. On a biological note it is interesting (well I suppose obvious really) that these women were removed (by choice or nature) from the biological task of child bearing and/or had the societally designated gender task of child rearing removed or alleviated. *sighs* bloody reproductive imperative rears it's ugly head again.

< Message edited by MistressWolfen -- 9/10/2006 5:29:36 AM >

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 5:35:02 AM   
ScooterTrash


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Status: offline 		All I know is that whoever wrote the article the OP posted the link to, has never witnessed a catfight in a bar. Certainly the males might be more compelled to fight, or war, but you put a female in a similar situation, they seem to have a "win at all costs" attitude...lol.

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RE: Researchers identify "male warrior effect" - 9/10/2006 5:41:06 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		War isn't necessarily the outcome but take it on any level you chose and within any particular society you choose, there is always politics of power and power is about resources. Some people settle for less for peace but that is usually a realistic decision in the face of someone or some institution more powerful. There has always been conflict over resources, just because it doesn't necessarily manifest itself in violence doesn't mean its not there.
 
You are right in the sense that, to date, history and politics (or at least the history/politics we are aware of) has been a struggle to achieve an objective.

However, it doesn't necessarily follow that this struggle has been for the objective of power and resources. There have been many organisations that have been involved in a struggle not for the sake of power but for the sake of principles and beliefs.

Granted, the history of international relations is one of power struggles/war. Yet, this really is a discussion about our natural state i.e. have we been conditioned to fight over resources or is this inherent to humans (see anthrosub's thread)?

Regards

Regards



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