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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 5:10:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

I know I dont see it as a gender thing.

It just truely makes me unhappy.



Would you be willing to pay for this upkeep around the house to free you to serve in other ways besides the domestic, or at least split the bill?

My Daddy has stated that if we are really busy and housework became an issue he would get a maid.. he doesn't need a submissive to clean his house, he wants one that is a companion and bed warmer, a fixer of some meals...lol. Perhaps that is the kind of service you want to give? Being a companion? I love doing things for him, even cleaning his place, but it is not something he would have to have me do if I was overwhelmed with graduate school... he would rather I fill my mind to please him than clean his toilet...Perhaps this is the type of domme that would suit you?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 5:33:18 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I pray for the day when people stop equating submission to service and service to submission.


While I am both submissive and service-oriented, I tend to agree with you. I also pray for the day when people stop equating submission with masochism.

I perused the thread you listed, LA, and I think many see the term "serve," or "service" as a domestic duty.  That is not how I define "serving" when serving my Master, although my service to him may indeed mean fetching a drink or the like.  I serve myself to him.  

One definition in mind (coloring and italics for emphasis):
1 a : to be a servant to : ATTEND b : to give the service and respect due to (a superior) c : to comply with the commands or demands of

Another:
3 a : to be of use

I do not equate submission with keeping a domestic household in tact, although they may be part of someone's duties. 

However, I will join you both at the submissive alter and light yet a third candle, in my prayer that people stop equating submission with mindless, spineless, and weakness.  (Huey, Louie and Dewey's cousins)

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 5:49:55 PM   
behindmirrors


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Alright, I couldn't leave this one alone. I relate a lot to this topic, mostly because I'm arrogant and confident, and I take both of those things as being very good, indeed.
Like KarbonCopy, I also can take charge, and I do. I consider myself a self-surviving, self-made person. And I don't do anything selflessly to the degree that I dislike the term "selfless". In fact, in my life outside of the lifestyle, I demand the respect I deserve, and take control of the majority of my work life. I'm self-employed, and need to.

I serve and submit selfishly. Very much so. To please my dom makes me happy, because he is happy. I want to be happy. If making him happy with me requires me to perform some sort of service, I do it because it makes me happy to make him happy, and I like to be happy.

In some cases, I don't enjoy doing the service I am asked to do. I hate taking out the garbage, I don't like doing dishes, and I really really dislike vacuuming. It doesn't mean I don't do these things, though. It means I do them with the prevailing thought of my Dom taking pleasure in my following his instructions, of doing what he asks of me. I don't always like to serve, but I like the outcome of serving so I do it, much like how I would do these things when living alone because it pleases me when my living space is clean.

Being selfish and being submissive can coexist without problem, as can being arrogant and confident. I take pride in my accomplishments, both in and out of our relationship. I expect to be respected for what I am capable of and what I have done. I don't sacrifice those things by submitting to my Dom- on the contrary, I further our dynamic through my pride, and he with his. Submissive does not equate to being weak or being a doormat or living selflessly for another. No person is ever the means to another's end- they are a means to an end unto themselves, to borrow heavily from Kant. Thus, my submission is never a means to my Dom's end, nor his dominance a means to mine. It's a complimentary, a trade agreement between us. By standing in this place by means of my own strength, I create my own end, I create my own life, I continue to further my own selfish pursuit of happiness by seeking out submission. It does make me feel complete to serve my Dom, but not for the service itself- for the joy I recieve in exchange for my time and effort when he is pleased with me. When I am pleased with what I have done and the capacity those actions have to please another. Service is an act, but it is not the necessary component that makes me happy or makes me submissive- it is a means to get to the happiness I find in submission when asked of me. Much like liking a clean house and doing the cleaning to get it for one's self. Here, it is simply that joy is derived through another step.

With all this said, my submission does not "complete" me so much as that it adds considerably to the happiness and security I want to find in life. I very much enjoy submission to my Dom, even if it isn't always easy or fun in it's actions. I enjoy the completeness of embracing all of who I am, and not apologizing for it. If serving someone is the key to another's happiness, that's great for them, but I don't work on the principle that it is strictly service that can make me happy. It's finding what I need and not being afraid to seek it, to do what I need to do to make things work out for mutual benefit. I would not submit if I didn't get something adequate to my submission in return. The adequate thing is finding personal joy in submission, in making my Dom happy.

I'm with you, in short. I believe that I don't need to serve to be happy. I need to be open, yes, and I want to submit, and the reciprocity involved with someone pleases me when they are pleased. I like to please myself, and submitting to my Dom is another way I have discovered ways to find that, because of the joy I take submission, I find ways to keep myself feeling happy.

After all, true selflessness is selfish, as my Dom says to me, and as I believe even before he said it. Why else would someone do something, when you get down to the root of it? Why would you feed a homeless person? You know they are hungry, yes- but you also know that it makes them happy to have something to eat that day, and their happiness for this translates directly into that feeling of "doing something good" you get after that action- a feeling that makes you feel happy, as doing good makes a person feel happy. Thus, you have done this out of finding a feeling of satisfaction from it, and you most likely would not should you feel no satisfaction or happiness or righteousness or what-have-you from the action you did.

"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson.

My point of view, take it or leave it-
behindmirrors.

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 7:19:09 PM   
twicehappy


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I feel like the odd man out in this thread but here it goes anyway.
 
I enjoy providing service to my pair, i like cleaning the house. I love waiting for Scooter to come home from work so i can see his happy grin when he realizes i am waiting to take his things and fix him a drink. I am extremely happy and proud when i cook something Jewel will eat and ask if we can have again soon. I whistle when i do the laundry, have a huge dumb smile on my face when i rub her feet or his back. I cannot wait for weekend mornings because on those mornings i am allowed to give Scooter his shower, i am tickled and happy when i shave Jewel's legs. It is a peaceful and comfortable quiet time for both of us when i dry and brush her hair. I like cutting the grass and tending the garden.
 
Serving them makes me happy and content , it is a part of who I am.
 
And I too am lighting a candle on the sub/slaves alter to pray that folks realize submissive does not equal spineless or stupid.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 7:21:30 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Twice, your post made me smile :)

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 7:30:23 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
However, I will join you both at the submissive alter and light yet a third candle, in my prayer that people stop equating submission with mindless, spineless, and weakness.  (Huey, Louie and Dewey's cousins)

The thing is, service is a fabulous thing, of course including in submission.  I adore service, whether it's with my body, my mind, or the resources my mind and body can give to them- a car, money, prepared food, sex skills, etc etc etc.  Yay for service!

It's just that NOT all subs are oriented to enjoy giving service (I'm both service and control oriented myself) and EVERYONE IMO who is a healthy mature person enjoys providing service to others in the world around them.  Every healthy mature dom I know has been more than happy to provide service to those around them, as a geniune innate desire- not just to be a rock star or ego dom.

So, again, yay for service, just don't equate it to submission, expect it in all subs, or deny doms their rightful service kudos.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 7:38:54 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

I feel like the odd man out in this thread but here it goes anyway.
 
I enjoy providing service to my pair, i like cleaning the house. I love waiting for Scooter to come home from work so i can see his happy grin when he realizes i am waiting to take his things and fix him a drink. I am extremely happy and proud when i cook something Jewel will eat and ask if we can have again soon. I whistle when i do the laundry, have a huge dumb smile on my face when i rub her feet or his back. I cannot wait for weekend mornings because on those mornings i am allowed to give Scooter his shower, i am tickled and happy when i shave Jewel's legs. It is a peaceful and comfortable quiet time for both of us when i dry and brush her hair. I like cutting the grass and tending the garden.
 
Serving them makes me happy and content , it is a part of who I am.
 
And I too am lighting a candle on the sub/slaves alter to pray that folks realize submissive does not equal spineless or stupid.


After working 10 hour shifts a day as a welder, I dont even have enough energy to get myself a drink let alone someone else.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 8:06:22 PM   
WhiteRadiance


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Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
Karbon I think you may be letting labels confuse you.  Be who you are and do what feels right.  Some people equate submission with Power Exchange. Some want to submit sexually... There are many variations.  
 
I identify as a Dominant.  But I enjoy doing things for others.  I like cooking and yard work.  I like buying things for the people I care about.  I like giving of myself.  I do not want someone doing everything for me.  Does this make me less dominant? 
 
There is a balance in everything, and the key is to find it. ;)

_____________________________

Staci

The drop of rain makes a hole in a stone not by violence, but by often falling.



(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 8:14:06 PM   
KarbonCopy


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I agree :)

But personally I was really just looking to see what other peoples thoughts were on this situation. :)


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 8:42:08 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
However, I will join you both at the submissive alter and light yet a third candle, in my prayer that people stop equating submission with mindless, spineless, and weakness.  (Huey, Louie and Dewey's cousins)

The thing is, service is a fabulous thing, of course including in submission.  I adore service, whether it's with my body, my mind, or the resources my mind and body can give to them- a car, money, prepared food, sex skills, etc etc etc.  Yay for service!

It's just that NOT all subs are oriented to enjoy giving service (I'm both service and control oriented myself) and EVERYONE IMO who is a healthy mature person enjoys providing service to others in the world around them.  Every healthy mature dom I know has been more than happy to provide service to those around them, as a geniune innate desire- not just to be a rock star or ego dom.

So, again, yay for service, just don't equate it to submission, expect it in all subs, or deny doms their rightful service kudos.


I have to wholeheartedly agree with that statement. Anyone that I have thought worth the time of day had some way or another they served others. It makes me feel they are more worthy of my service that they give of themselves to the world. I would not give to someone who selfishly took and never gave anything back to the world at large. At the same time, the doms in my life have been more than willing to admit they were selfish... not that the other men in my life weren't, they just didn't admit it.

I agree with you 100% LA, service does not make one submissive, although most submissives perform service of some sort. Being service oriented just makes you a good human being.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 8:45:06 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I agree with you 100% LA, service does not make one submissive, although most submissives perform service of some sort. Being service oriented just makes you a good human being.

I agree here as well.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 8:55:13 PM   
addisonclarkgirl


Posts: 346
Joined: 7/16/2006
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i'm in the same type of situation as you are karbon, and i've had some problems trying to deal with this coming onto this website.  i see slaves and submissives who are totally into serving and giving of themselves, that it makes me feel like i'm not even "submissive."  i've come to realize though, that i am who i am.  i don't have to use anyone else's lables to define who i am. 

What i have concluded about myself, and i am happy with, is that i am submissive, just not A submissive.  i am a very giving person.  i like to please others, whether it be a Dom, my friends, or my family.  i'm easy going and laid back.  i usually want others to be happy even if i'm not.  The thing is, i want to do it naturally; i don't want to be told to do something.  i'm way too stubborn, and i am too independent. 

Does that mean i shouldn't be here on this site??  That i'm not part of the BDSM community?  Shrugs...i'm happy being here. 

_____________________________

I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set her free...Michelangelo


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Princess_of_Naughty_Pics

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 9:14:09 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I agree with you 100% LA, service does not make one submissive, although most submissives perform service of some sort. Being service oriented just makes you a good human being.

I agree here as well.


Wait a minute, you saying i'm not a good person? lol


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 9:40:50 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I agree with you 100% LA, service does not make one submissive, although most submissives perform service of some sort. Being service oriented just makes you a good human being.

I agree here as well.


Wait a minute, you saying i'm not a good person? lol



I am not going to say you are not a good person, but do you have ways in which you serve others? Is it all about "you" or is it all about "both of you". I think this is a valid question to ask yourself, what are you going to do for the domme that is in your life? What do you want from her?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 9:45:03 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I agree with you 100% LA, service does not make one submissive, although most submissives perform service of some sort. Being service oriented just makes you a good human being.

I agree here as well.


Wait a minute, you saying i'm not a good person? lol


Aww, I'm sure you are a good egg.  I'm sure in your own unique way you find ways to give to others. :)

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 11:18:11 PM   
Archer


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There are certainly many searvants, slaves, and submissives who choose their role out of "enlightend self interest", as opposed to some selfless act.

And I'm praying for the day when people know themselves fairly well before they choose a label that best fits, rather than finding a label they think makes them sound good and then adapting the defintition of the term to fit them.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:00:45 AM   
eyesopened


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From: Tampa, FL
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i too get confused by lables. i have had way to many people say "you're just a service sub?" like being a servant is somehow a lessor being?  i can't remember the name of the book but it was regarding business managment techniques and it talked about "Servant Leader"  how one can serve others and as part of a leadership role.  That puts a whole new twist on the submissive-v-servant lable.  There are so many paradoxes in the "lifestyle".  The nursing profession comes to mind, the job is service but has to have leadership qualities.  Your religion doesn't matter but Jesus also comes to mind as an example of Servant-Leader.  Being a servant doesn't have to be a lessor role at all.

i am a type-A personality and a ball of nervous energy.  Yesterday i was with a lovely couple who are mentoring me.  They sat down to watch television.  i have a difficult time sitting still with nothing to do so i gave them each a nice pedicure.  It relaxed me, as well as them.  Who was i serving? well, all of us as the act gave me something to do and they enjoyed the attention. 


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:11:14 AM   
toy2006


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I have a really hard time with classists and sexists and, well, racists. Anyone, ANYONE who thinks they are more of a PERSON than another person is, is, well, demented. D/s is no different. A Dom cannot dominate me unless i submit to Him. D/s would be a better place if everyone would wrap their minds around THAT.... 

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:20:02 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy


After working 10 hour shifts a day as a welder, I dont even have enough energy to get myself a drink let alone someone else.


Karbon, let me first say i am not telling you to change who you are, if it works for you then you have more than many.

But for 18 years i worked, ran a farm, raised kids, raced and still was happy to serve when he came home. Lol, it used to be called being a "housewife".  



_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/10/2006 5:35:02 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnsensual

i don't want to be a servant.  i have a mind, i question things and i could never be on my knees in front of someone pretending they're a god or something.  i can't.  i have a backbone. 

Whoa.  When did we go from serving because the individual wants to make someone else happy to "brainless, spineless idiot"?  One does not equal the other.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to sweetnsensual)
Profile   Post #: 40
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